Last edited by Darren; April 25th, 2011 at 05:04 PM.
So Fragged turned out to be a GOOD episode, I'm happy with that!
*Crazy Roslin. Scary to see her like that, but I still love her!
*Everything on Kobol was just wow
*FINALLY a ship is sent to Kobol's aid and they made it without being killed by those damn toasters
*I thinK Crashdown went nuts and wanted to do the plan because he has Socinus and Tarn's deaths on his hand - so it was he who turned on them? Or Cally for not doing it?
*Baltar shooting Crashdown, I was shocked, like
*Tigh! The frakker! I am so sick of him! Dismantling the Quorum of 12, martial law, and drunk as usual...at least Dee knew
*Ellen Tigh...what was she doing going to see Roslin...not cool at all, something up her sleeve. She's an evil manipulative Cylon-wannabe who wants Tigh in control of the fleet and Adama dead
*Adama will pull through (of course!)
*AND FINALLY! Roslin's little thing at the end about her being the leader, admitting her breast cancer to the Quorum and Tigh...I love her!
EDIT *I completely forgot about Number Six and her talk with Baltar..God has abandonded Kobol and he needs to be a man...so her definition of a man is someone who can murder? Considering we did invent murder per say and taught it to the Cylons (our children? I don't like hearing that)...OH! And he admitted it without the coercion of Number Six...he is an Instrument of God
I was sad there was no Helo/Starbuck on Caprica. A shame. Nontheless, 9/10 for sure. Next week: Resistance, which I really am looking forward to!!
Last edited by Lt. Elliot; July 29th, 2005 at 07:47 PM.
This episode was amazing. When President Roslin told them all that she was the dying leader... that was such an incredible moment. Absolutely amazing, very inspiring. And it makes me happy to know that all the people are behind her- from what I can tell from the previews of the next episode, I suppose that's going to be thrown into sharp relief. Everyone's going to be behind the President. After all- who wouldn't want to go to Earth? Earth is pretty schnazzy, I gotta say.
I wonder what was up with Crashdown, though? Was he a Cylon, or was he just... screwed up? Why would he point the gun at Cally? I thought he liked her! Could he have been THAT MAD that she wasn't listening to him?
Lt. Elliot you're right- it was sad, no Helo or Starbuck! But I have a feeling we'll be seeing plenty of them next week. Mmhmm! Can't fricking wait!
I predicted Crashdown was the one who would turn against the others, and I was right! And I'm glad Baltar killed him.
okay it was official... i was totally insultin' tigh for his bein' such an arrogant. SOB.. he had no damned right to declare martial law like he did, course i think he was just a bit drunk when he declared martial law too.
next weeks looks good.
I saw that Crashdown was losing it, and I got that Six meant murder when she told Baltar to become a man, but somehow I didn't connect the two and was totally blown away when Baltar killed Crashdown. That got my attention and pulled it to the end -- I was ready to believe that the medic was dead, Cally was dead, the Chief was going to die...
Then, of course, the stuff on Galactica. I love Billy's conflict between his skepticism for religion and his loyalty to the President. Ellen Tigh is such a nice woman to hate; with Baltar getting into religion now, the show was missing a character who is completely selfish. Poor Colonel Tigh, though. He really tries, but he's just in over his head.
I didn't even realize there was no Starbuck/Helo (not to mention Boomer) until about fifteen minutes after the episode ended, so kudos for that.
"It's not enough to survive. One has to be worthy of survival." -- William Adama
Yeah, Tigh was really, really off-kilter. He told Adama that he'd "really frakked things up" for him, and then he went off... and frakked things up more. Very logical of him. Hmph. And so much for it being ADAMA's ship- at the end, remember he said something along the lines of "get them the hell off of my ship!" Hmmmm... he needs a good biotchslap, I think.
yes that was wrong of him to do that... it sure as hell ain't his (tigh's ) ship til the old man dies.
yes, 'get then the hell of of my ship' indeed... he needs to clear his head of the damned alochol thats hazin' his clear thinkin'
A few things...
I think Crashdown was going crazy becayse he probably things it was hi fault the two people died because he refused to check the med kits before they left. And he didn't want to lose anyone else due to Kally not following orders. I also think he was just a bad leader who couldm't handle the job.
Was Roslin going insane because of the pain of the cancer causing her to not be able to think or was it the Kamala's side effects? I tend to think the former because didn't she want more Kamala to stop the pain?
I think what caused to Tigh to come crumbling down and give in to drinking was being told that Adama was getting worse and he being told by Doc Codle that he might not make it. He just went through a bording then, what he thought was an Adama that was going to pull through, starts to get worse and no one reasurred him he would pull through, unlike the medic on the first surgery who was optomistic. Then because of the drinking his behaviors becomes odder and odder until he finally loses controll of the situation and himself and makes the worse decision to delcare matial law.
I'm guessing from the Raptor saving the survivors on Kobol is that they do infact have some sort of armarment such as a missle or two.
Oh, and where's the podcast? I REALLY want to listen to it.
Ah, here is the thread!
I don't think this episode is as enjoyable as the previous two (dodging flying objects ), but it was a good one nonetheless.
My respect for Tyrol grows with each passing week. He knew Crashdown was not qualified for command but showed the respect due to his rank nonetheless. He made the appropriate command decisions, once in the position, and was willing to sacrifice his own life to draw enemy fires away from the others. Though I don't quite understand why he covered up for Baltar at the end, somehow it was consistent with his characterization. Recall his steadfast refusal to reveal Boomer's secret -- perhaps it had been more than his love of her at play there.
Baltar's experience on Kobol will surely make him a much more formidable foe. He had never fired a gun before, and the idea of taking lives obviously repulsed him. Yet he was the only one who pulled the trigger on his own people (because, frankly, I doubt Crashdown would have pulled the trigger on Cally, as crazed as he seemed). What he did probably saved all of their lives, but I suspect the only one on his mind was his own. I never thought he had that much "guts" in him -- don't know if I should be pleasantly surprised or seriously disturbed.
Tigh is just as inept as everyone suspected when it comes to civillian affairs, and it was extremely sad to watch an otherwise good man's descension. I truly believe that he had no design on power and would like to run things exactly the way Adama would have wanted it. But he was driven by fear (and Lady MacBeth) and his declaration of Martial Law was an act of pure desparation. At the end, Tigh did exactly what he knew he shouldn't do -- declare Martial Law and sinking further into alcoholism.
And speaking of Tigh's alcoholism, I thought it made a nice contrast to Roslin's dependency on Kalmala (sp??). In a way, I don't know which is worse -- a military dictatorship run by an alcoholic, or a theocracy led by an addict. Either way one looks at it, the rag-tag fleet is truly fracked.
Last edited by Liebestraume; July 29th, 2005 at 10:54 PM.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~ Oscar Wilde
Maybe part of Six's plan for Baltar was get him to become a man and shoot someone so that, because Adama has been shown as the main adversary to him, when the time comes, he can kill him and it wont be as hard since he has already killed.
This episode blew my mind, best one this season which goes to show that you can make a great show even better. It was well written, tight and focused, there wasnt a dull moment. These last few episodes have really fleshed out the characters a lot and given them much more depth and as usual moving the story on by giving us something else to think about
I did'nt even notice there was no Starbuck until afterwards
Nice to see Racetrack in the cockpit again, she looks great in a flightsuit
Doc Cottle, what a great character he plays
Roslin was going nuts because of the withdrawel symptoms of the Chamalla and Mary acted those scenes so well.
Last edited by Blade Runner; July 30th, 2005 at 07:07 AM.
Great episode! This show just keeps on getting better, I can't wait to see what happens next (I'm trying to remain spoiler free so I don't read the episode guides for BSG if I can help it).
I didn't think this episode was as good as the first two either Liebestraume. No tomatoes from me.
But - there were plenty of highlights.
*Tigh. Egads, is there anything worse than an alcoholic military dictator? Great character though.
*Kobol. The scenes on Kobol were the highlight of the episode. I always liked Tyrol and I'm so glad to see Aaron Douglas getting some meaty scenes. I just love him. Great stuff with Crashdown, Tyrol, Callie, Baltar, etc. I knew Crashdown was going down just didn't know how it was going to happen. I really love the realism they add in for these scenes. The officer who really shouldn't be an officer, the scared and inexperienced soldiers, the hero who should be in charge but isnt. Interesting that there's as much characterization for all the periphery characters on this show as there is for major characters on other shows.
*Baltar. Very intriguing. He seemed to be turning a corner here and accepting his responsibility has an "instrument of God". I suspect we're going to be seeing some interesting developments coming up for him.
*Roslin. Surprising, but ultimately very canny, move she made to disclose her illness to the press. That is going to reinforce her position as a sort of "joan of arc" for the people. I think she's going to be a major force to reckon with.
*Adama. Well he just needs to wake up, doesn't he? Can't wait to see what he makes of everything going on with Tigh, Roslin, Lee, etc.
Missed seeing Kara and Helo. Hope they're back next week.
You know - even a subpar episode of BSG still rocks. Best show of the night.
Last edited by keshou; July 30th, 2005 at 07:41 AM.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...d_smallest.jpgLife is hard...and it's harder if you're stupid
This episode not as good? Say what? *Tosses fluffy kittens at Liebestraume and Kes *
Another excellent episode. Not quite as hectic or grabbing as the previous two, but still great nonetheless. It moved the story along and had great characterization. I’m glad they went ahead and focused on Kobol and resolved that particular storyline. Not that I didn’t think they did a fine job with that subplot, but I think it had run its course.
I was guessing someone else was going to die before they got off that planet, but I refused to make a guess since I didn’t want anyone to. Guess I should have known it would be Crashdown since the title of the episode was “Fragged”. Kind of a dead giveaway there now that I think about it……… Poor Crashdown. I almost felt like shedding a tear for him when Baltar killed him. I liked Crash. I just hate how they made him into a complete SOB and had him wack out at the end like that. He and Tigh reached their breaking points tonight.
Jeez I’m not sure if Tigh could have possibly had anymore to drink than he did tonight. Though I guess I can’t blame him. If put in his position, it would probably drive me to the bottle as well. This man really does not crave power (obviously Crashdown didn’t crave power either, he just didn’t have the luxury of a bottle). When Adama wakes up, all hell is going to come down on Tigh. I wouldn’t be surprised if Adama relives him of duty till he can get himself together even though Tigh is a critical asset when it comes to defending the ship and the fleet.
I just love to hate Ellen Tigh.
Tyrol was great throughout this whole time on Kobol as were all the secondary characters including the poor redshirts. I love how this show is not confined to just the main credit characters. These secondary characters are as equally interesting and “real” as the main characters, and I never once though “let’s get off these people and get back to the Lee or Starbuck, etc. storyline”. After seeing the long preview commercial on NBC after they aired BSG a couple of weeks ago, Tyrol doesn’t look like he’s heading back to Galactica for some much needed R&R. They had a “Saving Private Ryan” moment there at the end with Tyrol hopelessly shooting at the Cylons and then boom! with Lee swooping in to make the kill. Took me a while to think of what movie that came from since it seemed so familiar.
Hehe. Cally's reason for joining the military: to pay for dental school. I love those little touches. She's a great character and *gasp* she's a woman. These writers really have the ability to write well developed women characters rather than stereotypes.
Even though Lee was kind of a side note in this episode, he had some great lines directed at Tigh when they were in CIC. Heh. I wonder if Tigh even heard him when Lee sarcastically said back to him something to the fact that well “this is the sh*t that comes with being in command of a battlestar”. I can’t remember what the exact line was though. Where’s a transcript when you need one…….. Ah, found it on another message board. "Demanding job. Commanding a battlestar." Loved that little snark from him.
Great thoughts. I’m pretty sure Baltar was acting purely out of self-preservation. He didn’t care about the others when he shot Crash. Hadn’t Six already told him that what happened on Kobol was not god’s concern thus kind of implying that Baltar was not really under Six’s or god’s protection. That it was in fact possible that he could die on Kobol even though he had been deemed “an instrument of god.” Even his “nice” act of painting Crash as a hero and not as someone who had just fallen apart and disgraced himself on Kobol was probably not what it seemed. Baltar probably didn’t want to have to face questioning as to why he shot him, etc. On the outside it seemed like a way to preserve Crashdown’s character as an honorable man and that’s why Tyrol went along with Baltar, but I think Baltar had other reasons for saying what he did.Originally Posted by Liebestraume
Now that Baltar has killed, I think it is rather disturbing because now that he has done it, he might not have many qualms about doing it again. That’s why he needs to be watched like a hawk because I wouldn’t put it past him to try and kill Adama after his dream.
Six to Baltar: “I’ll be your conscience.” *shudder*
I can’t wait for next week’s.
Last edited by LoneStar1836; July 30th, 2005 at 09:28 AM.
IMO always implied.
I think she's really a cylon... Baltar never *really* revealed the truth about her.Originally posted by LoneStar1836:
I just love to hate Ellen Tigh.
Laura, President Roslin... wow! great performance there. Is the cancer spreading to her brain, or is that a side effect from the medicine she's on?
Tigh... I thought I liked him... Not so sure any more.
Zarak... I was amazed that he really looked a bit awed by the whole President Laura Roslin being a dying prophet scenario. Not that I really care, but I wonder which way the wind will turn in his mind now, based on this new info...
Personally, I really like "Chief" and Kelly. I liked Chief's emotional decision torments, when he had to deal with the major fire scene on Galactica in early of Season 1. He represents the heart of a true fireman, during and after rescue missions go well or astray.
Anyway, for the other short scene times that Kelly and "Chief" do get, I think both of them give more heart and soul into what's happening, yet are overshadowed by the bigger names like Starbuck and Adama storylines. Gosh, if Crashdown shot either one of them, that'd really be the end of an intense storyline.
...anyway, TPTB brought back that awful violin music in their preview commercials. I liked the dramatic drum version much better. It fit the intensity of what the program is currently about. Of course, someone else might argue that the violin version personifies the dramatic soap opera-nish effects... *sigh* can't have everything right.
I could tell Crashdown had lost it after he told the chief he needed to calm down. I think it was Post Traumatic Stress. When he was giving the graphs it really felt like he was rehearsing it more for himself than anyone else there. He was completely in panick mode and not in a good leadership position. A leader emits confidence and direction. If anyone was the leader, it was Chief, unfortunately Crashdown outranked him.
I honestly felt if Baltar had not fragged him, the Chief would have. Cally and chief had been through too much and she was one of his people. I've seen this kind of thing before where a change in plans at the last minute upsets the whole board for the planner and the only rationale in not changing the plan is because he had already made this plan and it was going to be followed out regardless of right or wrong. It was a stupid plan from the beginning. They all would have perished.
As for Tigh? I am really mystified. I thought I had a grip on his character. I actually kind of enjoyed his blustering hard-assness up until this. He's gone completely over the deep end. Wanting to lock up everybody, yelling profanities at the top of his voice, What rescue operation? answering the phone obviously drunk. I felt for him when he talked to the old man saying he'd really frakked things up for him, but then he up and makes it even worse!? I think were missing a scene there or something which drives him to martial law. I'm missing something. I honestly felt the right thing for him to have done would have been to release Roslin and restore her presidency after her prophetic announcement and declaration that she was dieing. Prison is no place for a dieing President.
What are they trying to do? Drive him off the show? Between him and his wife he has no business being second in command. What if Adama HAD died? At this point the character has very little redeeming value. I keep hoping we get to see the other side of Tigh that Adama sees, but it never happens. Despite wanting to believe Tigh is a good guy he starts acting goofy drunk with a gold-digging, manipulative, adulterous wife that can't be trusted, (that when this is all over needs to be either jettisoned out a cargo bay or sent packing back to the rising star)arguing and bickering with every character on the ship, even Adama himself, and an excellent candidate for Fragging.
It almost seems like the writers are TRYING to make you dislike him.
Just when I think I got Tigh figured out to the point of likeability, they throw him completely out of character to the extreme point that every character in the show and even the audience view him with distain. I thought I had my finger on him and it is so frustrating when I just throw my hands in the air and exclaim 'Who knows'. I give up trying to figure him out.
And Lee, with the standoff between the president and Tigh, I wouldn't doubt at all that Adama will or was going to reduce him in rank, brig time or perhaps even busting him out of the service (except for the their need of good pilots). I'm talking severe punishment.
But I do think that Lee was right, that when Adama does awake it's going to be something like 'You did what? What the hell have you done?!' To the point that niether one of them is fit to wear the uniform. I think they'll both get busted. As for Roslin, I have no idea why Cmdr. Adama felt he could just up and terminate a Presidency. That is the sin which led to all this other felgercarb.
But alak and alas maybe my idea of President and their's is different. The system I am accustomed to is that the President is the Commander in Chief and Adama's superior. They reached a summit where Adama is responsible for the military operations. But this is one of those grey areas I guess. Him and her need to talk, but to just terminate a Presidency and government?
Wow, that was long.
Absolutely, and entirely because -- as you said -- the superb characterization for even the periphery characters.Originally Posted by keshou
I too had developed a serious dislike for Crashdown in VoD but somehow mustered a lot of sympathy for him in the end. He never seemed that bright and, more importantly, was not prepared for command. Seeing his valiant attempt at shouldering that responsibility was quite heartbreaking (especially when he was going through those 5 "graphs").Originally Posted by LoneStar1836
That's a really interesting point. In a way, Adama's responsiblity for this mess went beyond the "coup." He was solely responsible for putting Tigh in that command position, while (I am sure) being a shrewed enough observer of Tigh's distain for civillians (and his ineptitude in dealing with them). I love the Old Man, but he's got something thinkin' to do once he comes around.Originally Posted by LoneStar1836
That was just so cute. And so human, making a commitment without being prepared for what that commitment actually entails. Guess that could be said for the lot of them.Originally Posted by LoneStar1836
... and he cleaned up so good!Originally Posted by LoneStar1836
Perhasps it did happen. IMHO Tigh had been quite competent on the military side of the affairs in the last two episodes, all things considered. He just never seemed to have an understanding of and healthy respect for democracy. Under their "normal" circumstances, this probably wouldn't have mattered too much ...Originally Posted by Zinfer
... guess none of them was prepared for the annihilation of their civilization.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ~ Oscar Wilde
There still one lingering question...
Where's the podcast?