Trinity (206)

[whatswiththehairtealc]

yea the chances of more than one inhabited planet in a solar system is very unlikely

Well........
apparently non of you are worried about space nats!!!!! not to mention the space snails which never did anything to you!!

damm all of you!!!!!!

[starfox]

To the Teyla-is-a-battered-woman-angle: WTF???????

Nope. Thats not how Teyla acts. Last season she fought with the security officer because he accused her of being a spy. He ACCUSED her of something, and she beat him up. Ronon KILLS a man 2 feet away form her and she gives him a lecture?

Teyla understood why he killed the guy. She even says that she might have done the same. She gets it. Not ratting him out to people who would condemn him isn't a sign of acquiescence, it's a sign of her not being a hypocrite.
She punched Bates because he accused her of being worse than this Kell character than Ronon just shot. Ronon killed a guy she felt probably deserved to die. She was pissed because he lied to her, not because he killed the guy. And her "I will not be so understanding?" The tremble in her voice was her restraining from hitting him.

The idea that Teyla is attracted to 'dangerous' men (aka abusive) is based solely on whats been shown on screen. Her current boyfriend has 1. Tied her up 2. Kidnapped her. 3. Beat her up using a cheap shot during 'training'. 4. Ended negotiations with a knife. 5. Killed a man in cold blood after lying to her.

Hold up. Boyfriend? Okay, there were a few glances that could have been construed as flirtatious at the beginning of "Condemned", but during this episode she does not treat Ronon as someone she is attracted to. If anything, he's like an annoying angsty teenager she has to babysit. From the time he puts that knife into the table to the time they get back to Atlantis she's pissed at him. And she's the one who told Ronon's war buddy that there was nothing going on there.

There are a lot of people on Atlantis. Her own people live a few minutes away. But the guy she decides to spend time with and go shopping with is the one who has treated her worse than anyone else on the planet? Great judgment Teyla.

He asked to go with her. She didn't beg to have him along. Taking him was a friendly gesture to a teammate, an effort to keep him from going stir-crazy. And after this ep, I doubt she'll be doing such a thing in the near future.

This idea of Teyla as an abused woman is nothing more than your projections. There's nothing there to support the idea.

[veneticuss]

Well, the episode was fine. The action scenes didnt catch me so much, but it was ok.


ad derick: Well I also interpret it a completely different way, and i must say, i'm quite surprised to see someone who sees it this way, but w/e, there's freedom of speech here right?

[Linzi]

I'll chime in that I don't see any sexual chemistry between Weir and Sheppard, either. There have been one or two scenes where I've sensed that some of the writers want to push the two of them in that direction, and those moments have felt a bit forced. Weir and Sheppard work better together when they're butting heads or when she's relaxed and real (which isn't frequent enough) and they can be friends.

I don't need the romantic element either, to enjoy a show like Atlantis. I'm 42 (which I'm assuming most people consider mature ) and I've never been a big fan of love stories, unless they're really unconventional. They seldom are. I've said here before that I would hate to see Atlantis become a soap opera. Once again - please, writers, don't go in that direction.

And I like the science yimmer yammer, too.
Ok, and the cute guys.

I have to say I agree with you here.
I'm 42 (nice to know there are other 'mature' people that post here, though I don't feel mature!) and though I could see chemistry in SG1 between certain characters I really don't see any sexual chemistry between Sheppard and Weir, but they have a good dynamic together, especially when they disagree, and they care deeply for eachother.
I don't want to see romance particularly, I've never been a fan of romance stories unless they are exceptionally executed, and I love the science stuff and particularly the action! Romance is for fan fiction. My personal opinion is major characters will never get together. It has never happened in S.G.1, don't see why it will on SGA.

[Southern Red]

.

Again, just because SOME feel that romance adds to a show doesn't mean that ALL must feel that. I resent the idea that as a woman, I need to have a sexual pairing on the show to root for in order to find it worth watching. NOT true. Not for me. I'm quite content to watch a show where NO ONE hooks up romantically onscreen. Especially not the main characters.

I'll save the rest of my rant for the ship discussion thread (or one could simply go and read what I've already said there), but I wanted to make it abundantly clear that I am NOT watching Stargate to see the characters "hook up".

First of all. "hook up" is a phrase that in my wildest dreams I would never use in any context. Same for "shagging' which I find repulsive. I am talking about romance, not sex. Not many of us want to see sex. That's why I don't like Battlestar Galactica. It would be unrealistic for a group of people to live and work together and there not be some pairing off. I am amazed that you can see the chemistry between Teyla and Ronon and not see it between John and Elizabeth which was like an anvil to me right from the pilot. But be that as it may, I too would rather see no ship than see them screw it up by tossing them in bed together. I was simply trying to point out that there's a growing group of women like me who used to watch Sci Fi just because our husbands or whatever did who are now starting to pay attention. I think the people who are interested in ratings will start to listen to our suggestions.

[fatesfortune]

Well I'm not even going to get into the teyla is a battered woman discussion, but I did see earlier on the thread that some people didn't understand why the wraith ship wreakage was still floating around the planet and hadn't fallen, so I wanted to explain that really quick. If the wraith ships were orbiting the planet when attacking, they probebly would have been in a stable orbit, so when they were destroyed, they would have stayed in that stable orbit. The reason they haven't crashed into the planet over the past 10,000 years is the same reason why the moon hasn't crashed into the earth. For every amount of distance that gravity pulls the object down towards the planet, the object is moving an equal amount of distance to the side, so the object stays on a stable course moving around the planet.

[Southern Red]

[QUOTE=FoolishPleasure As another one of those "mature female" sci-fi fans, I see where you are coming from. I really get turned off with the, "Oh, aren't those two half-dressed characters so HOT together!" factor. Which is why I'm drawn to the Teyla/Ronon angle - while Teyla was originally the dull "hot bod", the interaction with Ronon can bring a different aspect to her. They have so much in common - they can be INTERESTING without being just HOT looking together (did you notice she didn't dress "skimpy" this episode?). And I do see something with the Shep/Weir angle as well. Not because they are "Oh, so HOT", but because they have care, respect AND conflict with each other.

For characters to be "shipped". .(not that any WILL be), they have to be interesting, and have a purpose for the "ship". Two hot looking actors together "ain't gonna cut it".[/QUOTE]

Thank you. You defended me so much better than I did myself. I forgot to mention the scantily clad angle which is what some people need to see ship. Rubbing two hot bodies together to me is insulting our intelligence. I did notice that Teyla was dressed more ladylike and I applaude the choice. I think a true good caring relationship can develop between Teyla and Ronon but not based on appearance. It's fine with me if the Shep/Weir thing continues as it has been. I'm in no hurry. And once again I think Joe and Torri are doing a phenomenal job.

[Lord You]

I don't see any sexual tension between Teyla/Ronon or John/Elizabeth. There's more of a possibility between Teyla/John than John/Elizabeth, but nothing comes close to actual shipping. Can't a man and a woman be friends without any sexual undertones? You people are so paranoid!

[derrickh]

While you may have personal or professional insight into battered women, you are projecting onto Teyla what is simply not there, and in fact, laughable, to the rest of us. You've failed to convincingly explain it. This obsession with Teyla being somehow battered and dominated by Dex is, really, rather....disturbing.

I don't mind that many people dont agree with me. It makes for good discussion. But to imply that none of the signs are there is what's laughable. I named no less than 5 things that would normally be huge red flags. These weren't interpretations, in fact, many were plot points. Lets go through them, and if something isnt true, then please correct me.

1. Ronon bound Teyla against her will. That happened. Can't get around it.
2. He kidnapped her/held her hostage. Did I misinterpret that part in 'Runner'?
3. He hit her using a cheap shot during training. Thats a bs move no matter what galaxy you're from. Sheppard called him on it immediately but Teyla 'let it go' him.
4. He planted a knife in a table during a negotiation for seeds. Seeds. He wasn't even really part of the negotiation.
5. He lied to Teyla, put her life in danger, and killed a man in front of her.

Which of those things didn't happen? I'm actually sugar coating his actions.

Now, if you knew a woman who was hanging out out with a guy that did those things to her, would you sit back and say, they make a cute couple or they have 'chemistry'?

What I don't get...what really puzzles me, Is why so many viewers are cutting Ronon so much slack? Is it because he's a hunk? Is it because TPTB say he's a good guy? or are they the ones projecting and seeing stuff that hasnt been shown on screen?

SG:A is a tv show. A good one, too. And I don't see any reason to overlook what happens on screen because it doesn't jibe with what some people want to see.

D

[Shipperahoy]

Derrickh I think that the reason many people feel your accusations against Ronan are kind of off base is because this is a science fiction show. What you don't seem to be taking into consideration is the context. If this were a regular relationship in real life and a guy kidnapped a girl, bound her, etc. then yes...that would be a sign of something wrong. Very wrong. However, this is a science fiction show where there is constant danger and the characters are defending themselves against something or other every episode. I doubt in a real life relationship that the man in it would have met the girl for the first time on an alien planet after being on the run from a vicious alien for 7 years and having been completely alone for those years execpt for the various Wraith killings that he's done. At least I would sincerely hope not.

[strivaria]

The idea that Teyla is attracted to 'dangerous' men (aka abusive) is based solely on whats been shown on screen. Her current boyfriend has 1. Tied her up 2. Kidnapped her. 3. Beat her up using a cheap shot during 'training'. 4. Ended negotiations with a knife. 5. Killed a man in cold blood after lying to her.

Um... those first two items, are you talking about Runner? Because Dex tied up and essentially kidnapped her AND Shep... so does that make John the back up boytoy when Teyla's unavailable? Seriously... because there's no more romantic relationship between Teyla and Ronan than there is between Ronan and John. Whatever interaction she and Ronan share at the moment is tenative friends and two strangers in a strange land really. As for point 3, he would have taken the cheap shot regardless of who he was fighting.... all that time spent doing anything to survive would probably do that to a person. This also applies to point 5 as he'd have used anyone available to get to the traitor, Teyla just happened to be the one used this time.

I'd have to see a lot more of her knuckling under to him to consider the battered woman idea. As of right now, can't say that there's enough there to support it in my opinion.

[coolove]

The whole "Teyla is a suffering from battered woman syndrome" is really the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. I've spent years studying this kind of thing in women studies and I can tell you there are no parallels what-so-ever. I've worked with women and heard their stories of being abused.. To suggest something so outlandish is both ignorant and laughable.

[Schrodinger82]

Meh. I found this episode to be somewhat contrived and forced.

Obligatory Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I really don't believe that MacKay would be that dumb. "Hey, I know, we'll run it at only 50% next time! That's still the power of a dozen ZPMs!" I mean, I didn't even realize that they were running it at 100% before that. Hey Rodney, you ever hear of baby steps? Do you really need to start off right away by running your equiptment at a dozen times more powerful than the most powerful energy source known to man?

I also have a hard time believing that Weir wouldn't order John to order Rodney to abort and look over the data once Zelenka came in with his report. Seriously guys, what's the rush? You can't wait a few days to look over new data before running an experiment that the smartest people in the universe could do? And yes, I realize that the whole idea was Rodney's arrogance, but there's a fine, fine line between arrogance and insane. Guess which side Rodney was on?

Finally, they make mention of having back and forth conversations between Earth and SGA. (The military is interested in this new tech, the scientists next of kin have been notified, etc.).

Now, how exactly is this possible? Do they just just casually use the ZPM every time they need to send a message back home? If so, than it's kind of a let down to do something like that implied and off screen seeing as how so much attention was given to it last year.

Did the military guy have a chance to go back to Earth and back in the time between when the episode starts and stops? If so, then exactly how much time passed in the episode from beginning to end?

Did the team just use a subspace radio of sorts? If so, then why the heck didn't they have one last year? I don't think they've made any major break throughs in intergalactic communications since the first time they left for Atlantis, so I would have liked it if they actually bothered to explain that.

etc., etc., etc.

[not so ancient]

The Daedalus was about to withstand quite a few blasts from the Ancient superweapon, that either means that the weapon wasn't nearly as powerful as they made it out to be or that the Daedalus shields are very powerful.

The Daedalus was able to withstand some weapon blasts, yes,

The problem was, the Daedalus, and the whole freaking solar system, could not withstand the explosion from the overload of the Arcturus.

Little boom vs. something on the order of a small nova.

Big difference.

[derrickh]

Um... those first two items, are you talking about Runner? Because Dex tied up and essentially kidnapped her AND Shep... so does that make John the back up boytoy when Teyla's unavailable? Seriously... because there's no more romantic relationship between Teyla and Ronan than there is between Ronan and John. Whatever interaction she and Ronan share at the moment is tenative friends and two strangers in a strange land really. As for point 3, he would have taken the cheap shot regardless of who he was fighting.... all that time spent doing anything to survive would probably do that to a person. This also applies to point 5 as he'd have used anyone available to get to the traitor, Teyla just happened to be the one used this time.

I'd have to see a lot more of her knuckling under to him to consider the battered woman idea. As of right now, can't say that there's enough there to support it in my opinion.

If Ronon and Sheppard had a nice quiet talk in Shepperd's bedroom after the beating, and if Sheppard and Ronon went shopping together, then you might have a point. But those are things that Teyla did with him. As for them being just friends, I don't think I'm the only one seeing the path that this relationship is taking. The guy in the bar picked up on it immediatly when they walked in together. People on this board have said they look cute together and have great chemistry. The 'they're just friends' mantra seems like a prelude to 'friends with benefits'.

Your point seems to be that Ronon did those things to Teyla, but he wouldv'e done them to anyone else, too. So, that makes it okay? Really? And because they're in space, that excuses his actions, too. When will Ronon have to take resposibility for anything he does and not have people make excuses for him? He tricked Teyla to kill a man, but it's okay because they're in space. He held two team members hostage, but it's okay becuase they're in another galaxy and Ronon had it rough for a few years.

And when does Teyla have to take responsibility for her actions? Ronon undermines her negotiations with a weapon, and she doesnt do more than raise her voice. He Murders a man in cold blood. And she keeps it from the rest of her team. At best, she's an enabler.

Morals are Morals, no matter where you are.

D

[MarshAngel]

You make some good points. It was a bit contrived and Mckay was definitely bordeing on the insane but I think that's part of the point. As he said he wanted the sacrifice made to be worth it and in his typical way goes way too far. But for clarification. Apparently with the ZPM they have enough power to open a wormhole to Earth if they need to but they can't go through it because the SGC doesn't have the power to send them back. So they can communicate but they can't travel.

The whole point of going was to be able to learn something to help Earth so once they had the power to do so they'd have begun sending back data anyway. I'm guessing it's something of a high priority. If they don't survive, what they learned definitely has to; so eat away at the ZPM if they must.

[not so ancient]

I don't mind that many people dont agree with me. It makes for good discussion. But to imply that none of the signs are there is what's laughable. I named no less than 5 things that would normally be huge red flags. These weren't interpretations, in fact, many were plot points. Lets go through them, and if something isnt true, then please correct me.

1. Ronon bound Teyla against her will. That happened. Can't get around it.

Um, he did the same to Sheppard. O noes!!1!! Sheppard must be Ronon's battered boyfriend. What a terrible twisted love triangle!

What happened to Teyla was the same as what happened to Sheppard. It was not motivated by sexual dominance of a man over a woman, but rather a commando-style military tactic and Teyla's gender had zip to do with it.

2. He kidnapped her/held her hostage. Did I misinterpret that part in 'Runner'?

At that point it was a bartering arrangement - Sheppard comes back with the help he promised, Teyla goes free. I don't think Sheppard would have left Teyla without a strong notion that Dex would not abuse her. By that time they had talked with Dex and seen who he was, what he was. If Dex wanted them dead, or, to say, rape them and torture them, he had plenty of opportunity to do so when he first took them captive. That wasn't what he was about. And Sheppard knows: Teyla can take care of herself.

3. He hit her using a cheap shot during training. Thats a bs move no matter what galaxy you're from. Sheppard called him on it immediately but Teyla 'let it go' him.

Sheppard practice fights one way, Teyla another, Dex yet another. Sheppard and Teyla had to find common ground for their practice fights, and Teyla and Dex did too. If he had wanted to hurt her, he could have, and Sheppard would have been too late to stop it.

4. He planted a knife in a table during a negotiation for seeds. Seeds. He wasn't even really part of the negotiation.

True. And that was an act of aggression on Teyla's behalf, not toward Teyla, so I wonder why you would make a statement that so clearly undermines your already flimsy argument.

5. He lied to Teyla, put her life in danger, and killed a man in front of her.

Yep. He did. And that was an act of aggression toward Teyla how? Uh, not at all. Had Teyla been attacked for his actions, he could have, and I think would have, stopped it.

Dex had his reasons. Which, ultimately, Teyla understood, without fully agreeing with them. Oh, and then? She pulled a knife on him. O noes!!!1! Is Ronan a battered boyfriend? Please, rush to his defense. Please!

Your 'point' such as it is is that Ronon Dex abuses Teyla Emmagan and she puts up with it.

Your point really does fail. And I'm being generous with just calling it a failure because I am quite certain Gateworld's mods were to step in if I said what I really thought of this rubbish.

I'm disturbed by arguments like yours. As a woman, I want issues like rape, battering, inequality, bigotry and oppression to be taken seriously. Every time someone makes a completely crapola argument like yours, and demands to be taken seriously, you just cheapen the realm of discussion so that serious and real problems are treated as more garbage. It's a cry of wolf, and it's really, really not a good thing.

So, please, don't make an outcry on Teyla's behalf. Because she would be the first person to kick your @ss from here to Pegasus and back again if you dared imply she is a weak-willed, emotionally disturbed woman incapable of taking care of herself.

Which of those things didn't happen? I'm actually sugar coating his actions.

Oh, not much sugar there. I'd say more like venom.

Now, if you knew a woman who was hanging out out with a guy that did those things to her, would you sit back and say, they make a cute couple or they have 'chemistry'?

I trust a woman like Teyla to take care of herself, and I see no signs that she's broken, unwell, frightened, not making good judgments, lacking self-esteem, lacking other options, lacking resources, or in any way incapable of managing her own life.

She's not sexually involved with Ronon, they don't have kids together, they're not economically tied together, so there's no bond between them other than short term work together as colleagues on Atlantis. If she didn't want to work with him, for any reason, she could simply tell Weir and Sheppard that she preferred assignment to another away team, or to return to her people on Athos, or any number of other options.

What I don't get...what really puzzles me, Is why so many viewers are cutting Ronon so much slack? Is it because he's a hunk? Is it because TPTB say he's a good guy? or are they the ones projecting and seeing stuff that hasnt been shown on screen?

Oh, I think you're not someone to talk about what hasn't been shown onscreen. Really. You don't want to go there.

SG:A is a tv show. A good one, too. And I don't see any reason to overlook what happens on screen because it doesn't jibe with what some people want to see.

[mod snip - it's really not on to pschoanalyse other posters on the basis of their opinions of a TV show. cheers.]

[TheGreatCatOfRe]

I was looking forward to this episode, and as it turns out, I was correct in doing so. This was a great episode.

Best quote:

Weir: You destroyed three quarters of a solar system!
McKay: Look. Five sixths...but its not an exact science.
Weir: Rodney! Can you Give your ego a rest for one second?!

In fact, the entire scene with Weir yelling at McKay in the background was hillarious.

A pity we never got the power source to work right.

Oh, and I have to mention that I am continually impressed with the quality of the Visual Effects and props/scenery. I always love the cool little computer interfaces. And the Big Bad Zero Point generator looked neat as well.

I agree ref the quality of the cg. That first shot when they zoon out of the stargate is fantastic.

[PsychoPenguin]

Hmmm, it's hard to get a feel for the episode consensus over here--what with the various debates taking place--but speaking for myself, I enjoyed this episode. Plot holes aside (And hey, this is "Stargate." Be it "SG1" or "Atlantis," it's the same PTB at work, so there are *always* plot holes you can drive a eighteen wheeler through.), I was impressed with this ep for doing two--count 'em, *two*---things I'm not used to seeing these writers attempt:

One: Unity of theme. Both the A plot and the B plot were about friendship, trust, and betrayals of trust. There was an actual parallel being drawn between Sheppard and McKay's long term friendship and Teyla and Dex's newly forming one. Both relationships were dealt blows that could have been fatal. Yet the relationships were saved, thanks to a well-built understanding of each other in one case, and what appears to be Teyla's willingness to cut the new guy some slack in another. Both plot threads were then "pulled" to tie together, with Teyla and Dex arriving just in time to hear Weir chewing McKay out. A very, very nice touch, I thought. It highlighted the connecting theme, without hitting us over the head with that everpresent writing threat, the "anvil of symbolism." Again, very, very nice.

As a result, I'm left feeling that even if the writing wasn't tight in terms of plot, I'm willing to overlook it since it actually containted a true thematic structure--something I don't think I've *ever* seen before with this particular PTB. Thus, I give them points for that. Definite cookie for effort here.

Two (And it's a *BIG* TWO): We actually got to see emotional payoff happen on one of these shows! The final scene between McKay and Sheppard, whether you felt the emotions came across genuinely or not, was a major step for this franchise. Finally, somebody acknowledges that "bad things happened" that should have real, emotional consequences and shows the characters actually concerned about what those results may be. If the apology hadn't been in this ep, I could have accepted it. (Hey, "Atlantis" or no, it's still "Stargate." They never give us this stuff.) But actually seeing it--man, I nearly cheered!

Now, if they can only do that on a consistent basis, and in a way that references prior interactions, I'll feel like there's some actual character arcing going on...*hint, hint, hint*

(Come on, guys, you've properly executed two areas of true writerly skill here. It's time to up the ante and go for three! )

[Buzz Lightyear]

1. Ronon bound Teyla against her will. That happened. Can't get around it.
2. He kidnapped her/held her hostage. Did I misinterpret that part in 'Runner'?
3. He hit her using a cheap shot during training. Thats a bs move no matter what galaxy you're from. Sheppard called him on it immediately but Teyla 'let it go' him.
4. He planted a knife in a table during a negotiation for seeds. Seeds. He wasn't even really part of the negotiation.
5. He lied to Teyla, put her life in danger, and killed a man in front of her.

Which of those things didn't happen? I'm actually sugar coating his actions.

All of these things did happen but your extreme leap of logic to link them to Teyla acting like a battered woman is the part that is difficult to support. You're really grasping at straws here.

What I don't get...what really puzzles me, Is why so many viewers are cutting Ronon so much slack? Is it because he's a hunk? Is it because TPTB say he's a good guy? or are they the ones projecting and seeing stuff that hasnt been shown on screen?

SG:A is a tv show. A good one, too. And I don't see any reason to overlook what happens on screen because it doesn't jibe with what some people want to see.

Projecting and seeing stuff that hasn't been shown on screen? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

From what I've read on the forums so far, no one is really cutting Ronon any slack. We just don't know enough about him yet, good or bad.