Condemned (205)

[Carter's Boy]

I liked the ep, but one small thing bothered me though. Shep made a strong point of saying that they were formally from Atlantis (themagistrateknew what atlantis was - famous or myth?), but then when Weir is walking with him in the city, he is shocked to find out the team "never made it back to the city?"

So did Weir tell him and ruin the secret or was it a script error? If he does know, he may try and use the info to spare his life from the Wraith.

[TechnoWraith]

I liked the ep, but one small thing bothered me though. Shep made a strong point of saying that they were formally from Atlantis (themagistrateknew what atlantis was - famous or myth?), but then when Weir is walking with him in the city, he is shocked to find out the team "never made it back to the city?"

So did Weir tell him and ruin the secret or was it a script error? If he does know, he may try and use the info to spare his life from the Wraith.

Sheppard and the team visited the magistrate before Weir did. They were returning to Atlantis when the jumper was shot down. Since sheppard and his team had brokered an alliance (albeit a very short-lived alliance) with the Alesians (or was it Aletians?) it makes perfect sense for the magistrate to show concern when Weir reported that the team never returned to Atlantis. Unless the Magistrate was "faking it." Your theory about the magistrate possibly "using the info to spare his life from the Wraith" seems plausible.

[ShadowMaat]

I liked the ep, but one small thing bothered me though. Shep made a strong point of saying that they were formally from Atlantis (themagistrateknew what atlantis was - famous or myth?), but then when Weir is walking with him in the city, he is shocked to find out the team "never made it back to the city?"

So did Weir tell him and ruin the secret or was it a script error? If he does know, he may try and use the info to spare his life from the Wraith.

kris may have nominated me, but I nominate you to be the script supervisor, checking for continuity gaps. That's a pretty damn big one right there and I never even twigged to it.

[GatetheWay]

All this talk about it being a mistake that they dialing straight to Atlantis doesn't make sense. How would the Wrath possibly know where they dialed to? There is no "re-dial" or "caller ID" on gates, not that we know of so far. Unless the Warth saw the address on the DHD all the way up there in their cruiser (which was impossible because they dialed from the Jumper), why does it matter that the Atlantis team went straight to the city?

[ShadowMaat]

All this talk about it being a mistake that they dialing straight to Atlantis doesn't make sense. How would the Wrath possibly know where they dialed to? There is no "re-dial" or "caller ID" on gates, not that we know of so far. Unless the Warth saw the address on the DHD all the way up there in their cruiser (which was impossible because they dialed from the Jumper), why does it matter that the Atlantis team went straight to the city?

As I said, there could be an obvious reason I was overlooking, but I was mostly wondering if the Wraith had some way of detecting gate addresses. Just because the Atlantis team can't tell doesn't necessarily mean that the Wraith can't and I don't remember enough about the show to know whether or not that kind of thing has been established. Which is why I asked.

Plus, I'm a naturally paranoid person and it's the kind of thing I'd do even if I knew absolutely 100% that there wasn't a chance in hell of being traced.

[Easter Lily]

That's a bit of a stretch. Anyway, I doubt the writer(s) of this episode had anything Faustian or even particularly literary on their minds when writing this one, because it really came across like a plot scrabbled up at the last minute, twisted and punched against all logic into script form and shot without any thoughtful rumination on whether it really held together in a believable way. If there's a moral to the story, it's that you ought to spend some time mulling over your plot ideas before thrusting them on the rest of the world.

Is it really though? Plot holes aside, this was a pretty dark episode, especially for Stargate. It raised quite a number of moral question marks. I'm not saying it was a flawless episode but it tried at least to take a hard look with the notion of "interference".
Perhaps the writers did not specifically have the Faustian myth in mind but the episode certainly had Faustian overtones for me. With so much wheeling and dealing in the story, one can't help but see some of those implications. The Alesian hierarchy making a pact with the Wraith... Sheppard making a deal with the convicts... It'll come back to haunt them...

[GatetheWay]

I liked the ep, but one small thing bothered me though. Shep made a strong point of saying that they were formally from Atlantis (themagistrateknew what atlantis was - famous or myth?), but then when Weir is walking with him in the city, he is shocked to find out the team "never made it back to the city?"

So did Weir tell him and ruin the secret or was it a script error? If he does know, he may try and use the info to spare his life from the Wraith.

It seems small enough just to be an error. But that's a good catch. Have some green. That's the second scripting error fans have noticed since the season started. The first was in Duet where Weir called Shep "Major".

[ShadowMaat]

It seems small enough just to be an error.

Small? That depends. Was it a hiccup, or does it mean that the Magistrate knows Atlantis hasn't fallen? Because that would have some pretty big implications, particularly if he tells his Wraith buddy. Might be a bargaining chip to spare his own sorry life.

Of course, Shawn is likely to listen to the tidbit and then feed off him anyway.

[Easter Lily]

Good point.

I did like this episode. Weir going off-world was interesting. But I thought she should have brought a larger team.

Why? She was there to negotiate... not to start a war...

[GatetheWay]

As I said, there could be an obvious reason I was overlooking, but I was mostly wondering if the Wraith had some way of detecting gate addresses. Just because the Atlantis team can't tell doesn't necessarily mean that the Wraith can't and I don't remember enough about the show to know whether or not that kind of thing has been established. Which is why I asked.

Plus, I'm a naturally paranoid person and it's the kind of thing I'd do even if I knew absolutely 100% that there wasn't a chance in hell of being traced.

I'm pretty sure it's never been established that there is a way to trace a wormhole. TPTB have never addressed it offically. If they could trace wormholes without sending something through SG-1 or the Goauld for that matter could of used that solution many times. Only way has been to look at the address on the DHD before the wormhole is gone.

[rhade]

I liked the episode good but nothing outstanding. It saw the new team together cool interactions within the team and had a interesting story. But I also agree there were some issues that I thought could of been better handled. Them saying they are formerly from Atlantis is at best a stop gap measure that will not work in the long run especially if they are constantly going out exploring. And why haven't the Wraith gone back to the site of Atlantis to get all that scraped tech? That was an important issue in the season one's final episodes but was dropped totally since. Anyways I thought it was cool to see another advanced society but how many puddle jumpers are they going to lose? Oh well and seeing a Cruiser was real cool. But I ddon't think that how it was disabled was in any way realilistic. Were they just aiming for the ship at random did they target a sub-system do they even know where they are cause from what I saw they just it it where ever. Cause wouldn't that mean that they may have damaged it but not make it retreat and why wouldn't they send their darts down. These are small issues but overall it was entertaining and always fun to watch.

Also this is totally unrelated but I really enjoy both shows. Each brings something different to the table that I think would be missed if only Atlantis was on. I can see how some people would have a problem with the Orii but I think that given time the show will expose what makes them dangerous and different. The Wraith just seemed like space vampires and only now are we really beginning to learn about them and I thin kthe same thing will happen with SG-1's Orii.

[GatetheWay]

Why? She was there to negotiate... not to start a war...

Not initially anyway.

[smushybird]

I don't know, I like reading Easter Lily's detailed plot analysis for each episode--they're always thought-provoking and interesting.

I also kind of think the writer(s) often DO have something literary or that is an homage or has hidden meaning when they come up with their plots. I know they do when they come up with titles of the episodes, so why wouldn't they when they actually write the things?

Oh I wasn't saying they never reference literary works or pay homage, but in this particular episode, it came across as so first draft-y, I didn't believe they did--or at least, not convincingly, if they meant to. Neither am I saying the ep was actually bad (imo). It wasn't. I could just see how it might have been so much better. But writing powerful, cohesive plots under a deadline, that's tough, so I would cut the writers some slack. Faust, tho'....eh. Just my opinion of course.

[GatetheWay]

Small? That depends. Was it a hiccup, or does it mean that the Magistrate knows Atlantis hasn't fallen? Because that would have some pretty big implications, particularly if he tells his Wraith buddy. Might be a bargaining chip to spare his own sorry life.

Of course, Shawn is likely to listen to the tidbit and then feed off him anyway.

Well... I don't think so. If that were the case then wouldn't the Wrath not just besiege Atlantis AGAIN? It would just repeat last season's finale but this time they wont be able to fake a self destruct. Granted, the faked death of Atlantis really only bought them time and sooner or later the Wraith will get wind but IMO it's too early for that now. There has to be enough time for the Atlantians to find other things to fight the Wraith. I think its just an error a careless error at that.

Edit: Never mind turned out to be a mistake.

[smushybird]

Here's a question: Why dial back to Atlantis? Aren't they worried that the Wraith might be monitoring and find out where they're going?

I can see not wanting to go where the prisoners went (although they could have gated there, somewhere else, and THEN Atlantis), but why not gate to ANOTHER world so that if the Wraith learn anything

Yep, that was addressed a couple of pages back (?) and I think it's just more evidence of not really thinking the story through before committing to filming it. Maybe if the writers had sat down and worked logically through that particular storyline of pretending Atlantis has been destroyed, they wouldn't have overlooked little errors like that one.
It's just frustrating when you can imagine a particular ep as it might've been. I think there was some fanfic once w/ the idea of a prison planet where wraith are prisoners also and human prisoners who attempt to escape are fed to the wraith. I think in remembering that fanfic, it made me wish more had been made of this particular prison episode. (And the fact that writers are so worried about copying SG1 episodes-- c'mon, SG1 had at least one prison ep that I saw and probably more (?) I wish they wouldn't worry so much about copying. As long as they write it from a fresh angle, I don't care if it's similar to SG1 eps.