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Condemned (205)

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    There's no denying that it was a great episode from a lot of points of view, and I loved that wraith, especially when he drooled on the magistrate!

    But there was one big problem with it that left a very sour taste in my mouth (not the wraith's last chef, that is). This was the ending. Essentially, our heroes had condemned an entire civilisation, an entire population, to be culled, and walked away without even a backwards glance or a hint of doubt about what they'd just done.

    Yes, many of the prisoners were political (and therefore unjustly imprisoned) but many were clearly not (Torrell, the local gang boss, is clearly a nasty piece of work).

    Yes, the regime/current government of the Olesians was collaborating with the wraith, but were the Olesian people to blame? Did they deserve to be slaughtered because of the actions of their leaders? Remember that it is not established whether they're a democracy, so we have no idea whether the people even have a vote in the matter. I would suggest not, given that the magistrate was able to enact new laws overnight and that comments from Eldon (the slightly retarded prisoner helping Rodney) suggested that such laws were regular occurrences whenever the island's population got a little thin. This suggests a materially wealthy, yet still oppressed population where anyone who steps out of line, such as the magistrates assistant (who told Weir about the new laws) is instantly punished with what amounts to a death sentence - transportation to the island.

    My basic point is this: at the end the writers obviously want us to cheer when we see the magistrate filling his pants in fear - we're supposed to applaud that our guys have undone a great injustice wrought on the prisoners by their evil oppressors on the mainland who, as a whole, profit by their suffering.

    I actually felt a little sick that the writers had just showed our heroes condemn an entire population of people whose actual situation they know nothing about. Don't forget that the only reason they took the prisoners with them was to save themselves, because without the prisoner's co-operation, Shepperd et al would never have escaped.

    So what's the message? So long as we get our people back, we don't care what happens to anyone else. They is just foreigners, anyway, yeah?

    Please feel free to disagree. I'd prefer to be proven wrong, because the ending still annoys me even now.
    Last edited by Setiform; 15 February 2010, 04:19 AM. Reason: Multiple copies of the same text appearing throughout

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      There were a few points I wasn't quite happy with in this episode, but I did think that it started to show the progression of the "nobody gets left behind" mind set to "some people have to be sacrificed" I really enjoy the moral dilemmas SGA faces.

      Sigs by the lovely CSOM, Sonja and from the Tokrafans community on LJ.

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        the wraith cruiser at the end was totally pathetic. the shots were incredibly slow and the explosions were smaller than those made by glider staff cannons. if a cruiser cant hurt a group of people running out exposed in the open then i dont know what theyre good for.
        R.I.P Stargate 1994-2009

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          good episode. love the fight scenes, and a good moral dilemma.
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            Ok I have read all the comments and some are over 5 years old

            And the show SGA is over

            Basically my opinion is that that civilization had a good thing going

            They had such an efficient deterrent against crime that there were almost no criminals

            And lots of people here miss the a huge point

            Some people must die period, either people fight and get constantly beaten down and live like primitives just as for example Teylas people or they sacrifice a part of the society so that the rest may live

            Innocent or not, that point doesn't really matter, a lottery could also have been a nice idea

            The wraith come say we want this and this many and first you get rid of all criminals then you have a lottery for the rest

            And I know this is not how it was, this is just an example

            And people here complain that the magistrate had to lower the bar at the very end

            I say so what, should the whole society fall is that better?

            No of course not

            And other say fight back

            And get their as* handed to them and become primitives, no of course not

            The only way for this society to ever possibly beat the wraith was ONLY through be allowed to advance their technology and somehow hiding part of the advanced technology until they were ready to strike at the wraith

            This would of course taken a very long time but what else is there to do just get culled over and over again and constantly living like primitives

            For me it is obvious how to advance such a society

            First you research a lot into biology and try to increase the life span of humans and the intellect

            With smarter people you can research better and faster

            And with a longer lifespan then less people will need to be fed upon

            Then you try and increase the population thereby getting more criminals as a side effect and more intellectuals as a main effect

            Also you should increase the mandatory school years instead of graduating like now somewhere at 18-19 change it to 30 plus 20 years of university so you complete university at at least 56, if you live to 150 than 56 is not that much and if you live to 250 then the school years should be even higher

            And everyone who fails well they get put on a list and if there aren't enough criminals to feed upon then you give the failures to the wraith

            Then you must somehow play on the wraiths greed so that he views the humans as people view money, where more is better and he allows the population to grow vastly into the billions so that more people can research, whilst the wraith greedily runs his hands together as he thinks of how “rich” he is

            And finally when the people have biologically engineered themselves into super humans with enormous intellects that live for thousands of years, then and only then do you secretly start to construct ships deep bellow the ground to attack the wraith

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              Great to see a Wraith eating normal food, I didn't think they could do that. Oh, and the look on the governor's face when the cruiser showed up was priceless. Otherwise, the ep was rather predictable IMO.
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                Was anyone else seriously distracted by that pink-haired wraith's beard clapping when he talked? I'm going to have to watch it again, just to figure out what he said.
                Me!! Me!! It was really distracting wasn't it? And funny too!!!But pink hair? Think it was just white like the others. O.o however I can see what you mean it looks a bit...pinkish
                XD XD XD Happily I have boxset and can review as much as I please so I have understood most of what he was saying. (Don't ask me, it was a while ago again)
                Even more disturbing was the drooling.
                *drool* "But I am more civilised than that"
                explain me how drooling can be polite or civilised XD Priceless scene!!
                Last edited by Thorthewraith; 21 February 2011, 12:53 PM.
                On your knees human!! *hiss*

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                  This episode started out to be very promising and got very disappointing in the end. There would have been so much more to explore but in the end our SGA team just condemned! the whole planet and moved self-righteously away. Terrible. I totally agree with what Setiform wrote. We don't know if all the people on the mainland agreed to sending innocent people to the island and at least one woman was not and told Weir. Instead of morally exploring such a setup the writers got cold feet and make a rescue mission out of it. I just wonder how the convicted got their hands on not only metal but explosives. And how convenient it was the PJ they could take down and they never tried this before on one of the patrol ships of the Olesians.

                  The other thing is the easy escape. Don't the wraith normally dial the gate so no one can escape. Yes, the DHC was missing but still the wraith could just do it out of precaution. And how about aiming, I'm sure they can do better than that. But the biggest question, where were the darts. Hello, they came here for what?, a yes culling, so how do they cull?, right, with darts.

                  AND don't forget, now the wraith have a puddle jumper but I'm sure we will never see the fruits of that. Yes, the wraith haven't the gene but I'm sure they can hotwire the damn thing and
                  Spoiler:
                  Neither is Sheppeard telepathic in TLB but they invented an interface. The same with Rodney on the hiveships, he always can access the controls. And don't forget the ep Travelers, they tried an interface too and it worked. But unfortunately the writers decided more and more in the following seasons that the wraiths are stupid and incapable of inventions.
                  Last edited by Skie; 21 March 2011, 09:13 AM.
                  Blue is such a nice color, especially if you have wings.

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                    Having just rewatched this episode I thought I would add my two basic galactic monetary units to this thread. My first impressions were:

                    * Very transparent antagonist. Portly well-spoken high-ranking government officials usually turn out to be smarmy back-stabbing gits.

                    * Got to see Ronon in action for the first real time (well, not the first time for me, but the first time in this season).

                    * I thought the lead prisoner was very convincing as an enemy and very cunning with his plans.

                    * Watching a Wraith eat actual food... more disturbing than watching him feed on a person. Can't put my finger on why, though. His alliance with the people of that world was very clever, though it relied on the humans sacrificing some of their own (not something many worlds would be comfortable with, I think).

                    * We got to see a pretty girl (Marin?) which is always a good thing.

                    * It was good to see Weir getting off-world for once. I thought her exchanges with the head alien guy were very good, and it was funny when she threatened him and immediately Lorne and the two marines had their weapons up like dogs trained to do that on command.

                    * I also liked the nervous prisoner guy, I thought McKay's interactions with him were very good.

                    All in all an interesting episode, and nice to see advanced humans. Also, I'm terrible with names.
                    Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


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                      From Joe Mallozzi's Blog:
                      http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...ast-condemned/

                      CONDEMNED (205)

                      The original pitch for this episode saw the team encountering a civilization that used clones to keep the wraith fed and at bay. Eventually, the story evolved. The clones were out and prisoners were in. All in all, an interesting premise and, while the episode did have its moments, it never quite reaches the heights of the two that preceded it.

                      One pet peeve: The character of Eldon, the “brilliant one”, comes off as oddly goofy, borderline simple.

                      But, I did say the episode had its moments. Namely: that dinner conversation between the Magistrate and the wraith and, later, Weir playing the role of diplomat AND hard-ass Commander when push comes to shove. It’s nice to see both sides of her.
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                        OMG! The team are actually on a mission together! It was great to see them working together, and fighting together. I thought Shep as the team leader especially shines. He's learning how to relate to (and semi-control) Ronan, ordering him to stand down. He knows when McKay is lying and has some plan up his sleeve. He tries to emulate Teyla breaking the sticks. That was an LOL moment for me.

                        And Weir is great here too. She is doing what she's supposed to, negotiating with leaders of other worlds and looking out for her people in a strong and competent way. Finally they don't write her as nieve or feckless.

                        The dinner with the Wraith is creepy in a truly awesome sort of way. It shows us some depth and division in their society and hints at a truly complex culture with many personalities. And shows how dangerous it can be if you are the one encouraging the Wraith to play with their food.

                        I have but two small criticisms. First, the magistrate was played by the same guy who played the cannon on SG1 S3 ep Demons. Which I suppose was lucky because they are essentially the same character, a corrupt and slimey leader who throws his people to the enemies in the name of saving their society when really he's only maintaining his own power and saving his own hide.

                        And that leads me to my second beef. While it is satisfying to see the Wraith coming for the wicked magistrate, what about the rest of the people on that planet? We know they weren't all complicit in feeding people to the Wraith. Look at Marin. So the Atlantis teams just blythly skip on home safe and sound after opening up an entire society to attack with nary a thought for the innocents on that planet who will die because of their actions. Unfortunately, that sort of cavelier dismissal of moral dilemas is something SGA is known for.

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                          Thought it was kind of a boring episode. I liked the last few minutes of the episode.

                          I was trying to think who that one prisoner was, then I saw the credits, it was Christian Bocher.

                          Tomorrow, McKay messes with an unfinished ancient weapon.
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                            A 'cultured' Wraith sitting down at a dinner table sipping wine! That scene reminded me a bit of Kirk and crew sitting down to a 'human' dinner with Klingons in the movie 'The Undiscovered Country'. Only the Wraith didn't start quoting Shakespeare in this one, although if it knew about Shakespeare I bet it would have!

                            The poor actor playing the Wraith seemed to be having trouble with the 'teeth' at various points, the dribbling got really bad in one scene!

                            It was funny to watch McKay being psychoanalysed by the nasty leader of the prisoners, he figured him out pretty well! I was bugged by where I'd seen the guy who played the leader before, so, looked him up, he was 'Newman' in SG1's 'Shades of Grey'.

                            The scenes in the garden and the city of Olesia were filmed here for those who are interested. I'd visited it recently on a Stargate tour, but had no idea what episodes were filmed there at the time as it was used only on SGA, and I'm not that familiar with SGA. Now that I've seen this episode I know!

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                              Midweek, another ep of Atlantis.

                              1. I remember watching this ep first time round with my Dad who never really got into Gate till SGU and he didn't like it.

                              2. Having said that this is very much a bog standard ep so to an extent I can't blame him.

                              3. The last scene look a bit better than I remember.

                              OK ep I guess but...
                              I SURF FOR THE FREEDOM!

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                                My LiveJournal post

                                Not a bad eppy. Not great, not bad. I wanted to see a Wraith actually feed on that Magistrate guy though!
                                "Thanks to denial, I'm immortal."
                                "A big 'Hello' to all intelligent life out there, and for everyone else, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
                                "Excuse me, barmaid? You seem to have brought me the wrong offspring. I ordered an extra large boy with beefy arms, extra guts and glory on the side. This here, this is a talking fishbone!"
                                "I'm Jack. It means... what's in the box?"

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                                >-- Czechs Rock! >--

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