Valley of Darkness (202)

[alki]

I want Starbuck and Helo to get it on!

HE_LO n STAR_BUCK, HE_LO n STAR_BUCK (chant with me now)

i like helo. way cuter than lee. i admire helo. i want helo...um, never mind....

where was i? oh yeah, the episode...

wasn't liking it all that much....i was surprised to not like it that much.

one of the very first episodes i've found myself going "well that's kinda goofy" to (besides the Bright Red Blood in "Scattered")

i did like the starbuck apt/hummer thing - but she was all hurting and sore when they first got to the apt, yet when they were getting in the jeep she was practically doing jumping jacks! no soreness there, all cured by hummer-love??!

and why can't they just go raid a grocery store for food or something? i mean, wouldn't y'all be doing some serious (albeit stealthy) raiding of necessary goods if stuck on caprica? (medical supplies, food, clothes, bottled water, etc)

the med kit thing with the peeps on kobol, oh that was waaaay too "we're-in-nam-now".

also, WHAT'S WITH NO ONE ON KOBOL HAVING AS YET WIPED THEIR B.R.B (BRIGHT RED BLOOD) OFF THEIR FACES???!!! I mean, c'mon, Six could maybe lick some off of baltar?

and the adama/baby thing? i was expecting him to put the baby in a reed basket and push the wee one down the river a-la moses.

that was too drawn out for a dream section....drowning was a better idea than the reed basket obviously -- (i mean, it's a dream induced make-believe cylon baby and all - let it be said that i am NOT for drowning babies, nor setting them adrift in reed baskets!!)

sigh, this episode just didn't do it for me.

the cylons were the best part.

at first anyway.

sigh, even with them, toward the end they were starting to prance a bit before being beheaded...prancing cylons.......NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[Liebestraume]

Valley of Darkness entertained on so many different levels that I could hardly gather my thoughts when the credits rolled. Nearly 24 hours apparently hadn't helped that much.

First of all, thanks to larocque6689 for transcribing the podcast. I have not been listening to them this season for fear of spoilers. Reading the transcriptions now give me a new appreciation for what ended up on screen. For example, the bits about Tigh knowing where cylons were headed. Watching it I had thought it was the instinct of a seasoned soldier; now I know there was originally a backstory. But I think either way would work well.

I was not expecting to be moved by the events on Kobol. None of my favorite characters (i.e., Lee, Kara, Roslin, and Adama) are there, and I had not always thought of Tyrol very highly. But seeing what he had gone through to only bring about the mercy-killing of a friend was extremely touching. The death scene itself was heart-rending and sobering all at once: no one had control over life and death, but the most precious gift one could bestow is mercy. Needless to say, I cried like a little girl.

But the episode would not dwell on grief for long, for elsewhere humanity was fiercely fighting for its survival. I thought the action sequence on Galactica was extremely well done. I liked the juxtaposition of Roslin's group and Lee's, and that Cylon's menace was only felt, rather than shown, through the echo of their footsteps. And through the carnage they had left behind, which I especially appreciated, because it brought home the true nature of cylons, the precarious condition of humanity, and the bravery of those who serve aboard Galactica.

And there is none braver than Captain Adama. I totally agree with keshou's comments on Lee:

I really liked Lee in this. You know in every war there are men/women who end up as reluctant heros and I feel like that's what Lee is. Not a natural warrior he can nevertheless rise to the occasion. And he has principles.

Yes, one knows he is not a natural warrior like Kara, because he never "gets high" in this type of situations. All that mumbling -- he did in Hand of God and he did it here -- makes him look a bit nervous but all the more admirable in the end. That he knows what needs to be done and does it regardless personal cost is his most fundamental characterization -- I'm so head-over-heel with this fictional character, it's not even funny!

Interesting insights into Kara’s past life and about who she is - and all from just seeing her apartment, not to mention what she said. Someone needs to dig up a screencap of what she had painted on her wall - the writing. I wonder if Zak’s death was somewhat of the inspiration of her paintings cause they didn’t look like they were painted by a happy person, if she was ever a truly happy person sometime in her life.

I don't think she ever was a happy person, and sometimes I even wonder how trully happy she had been with Zak. I am really happy for these glimpses into a character's basic make-up. If we had thought Lee's got his daddy issues, then, watch out, here comes Kara. Her (erstwhile secret) Bohemian side initially shcoked me a litte. Then she mentioned her artistic father -- just the wistfulness of her quite reminiscence -- made many things about her falling into places.

[Easter Lily]

I'm not sure what I'm blown away by more... the episode itself or the great reviews on this thread... Jeff, that was a fabulous review... couldn't have said it better myself... You've encapsulated so well the essence of characters and the highlights of the episode. The eloquence with which you've expressed your thoughts befits the lyrical nature of this episode.

Have I ever said how much I love Lee... To see this uncertain, underestimated young man toddle through the enormity of his situation and showing himself to be capable of taking on the role of directing others has been very heartening and inspiring.
Like many of you, I liked Lee almost from the start... what others perceived to be weakness, I saw to be thoughtfulness and integrity. I particularly like what Adama said to Kara in The Hand of God, "the cylons never asked us what we wanted" and that I think is more true of Lee than anyone else. No one ever asks Lee what he wants but here he is time and time again, doing what he has to do to protect others, to put himself in between the enemy and those who cannot defend themselves. It is so good and so rare to see a young man in a television show today completely driven by principle and not ego. *sigh* The renegade, hormonally driven pubescent male can take its toll on one's patience.

In my eyes, Lee is becoming Apollo... he can be the hunter and shows that he has the potential to be the healer also. I understand why he is the loner... he has to be... because in the midst of the chaos and uncertainty, someone needs to take a few steps backwards and ask all the difficult questions.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Well said, Easter Lily! I, in turn, couldn't have put it any better, myself in regard to Lee -- you've essentially taken those subconscious feelings I've felt and brought them into light to be examined more thoroughly out in the open like so. He is becoming Apollo... agreed, through and through!

Thank you, by the way, for the compliments, too! Hehe.

[Liebestraume]

Jeff, thanks for the comprehensive review. I agree with you on every point therein, with two possible exceptions.

... watching Gaius Baltar genuinely care about something living, breathing and not named Gaius Baltar was riveting. Now, one might argue through the courtesy of modern-day over-analysis that caring, concern for his flesh and blood was a selfish behavior no different than such a feeling for his limbs, but most would nonetheless agree that another person is another person, whether it was his mental offspring or no, it wasn't him and that's enough.

Baltar is positively certifiable these days, but I don't think he's changed fundamentally. Indeed, he does care about something that is that named Gaius Baltar, but only because that something is The Legacy of Gaius Baltar. What he saw in that "baby" was not so much of a living, breathing entity, only an extension of himself much beyond flesh and bones.

When the mini began, Baltar was just a lecherous coward with a much inflated ego. He still knew right from wrong, had the desire to do the right thing -- much like us -- only his actions were always tinted by excessive self-consideration.

But he has gone much beyond that since then. All those religous mumbo-jumbo Six whispered in his ear were meant to stroke his ego -- how he was the chosen vessel, the progenitor of "the shape of things to come" -- and it has worked like a charm. Recall that Jesus-like pose at the end of 6 Degrees of Separation, methinks that was the shape of things to come. I don't think Baltar is quite evil yet, but he is well on his way.

Terrible of me to not know his name by now, but the guard who's been on for two episodes, now, has had quite a bit of action and I've enjoyed his presence on the show, from the initial silent standing, to praying alongside Roslin, to watching over the President with genuine concern for her well-being in the midst of a Cylon boarding situation.

Good of you to actually remember the guard, for most people -- myself included -- he was probably only a blip on the radar . But, yes, this show is really good in that it remembers these "small people." Details like that add credence to the story and make it relevant to the viewers. But I do wonder how much of the gaurd's change of attitude has to do with his belief in Roslin as the prophet ...

[Jeff O'Connor]

Interesting, Liebestraume; you're probably right, it's an extension of himself and thusly, quite important and Adama, he drowned an extension of the great Gaius Baltar, chosen one... you're absolutely correct, I agree! I'd thought of the situation as a whole, obviously, but not quite so muchly into its rich tapestry of linking with the man's having been groomed into believing himself an icon of all things.

As for Roslin and the guard, I think he wants to believe her to be some form of prophet, perhaps, simply for the same reason any would -- it's a sign of hope in a sea of darkness. I think that does play a part in things with him and his decisions but even then, I also believe the notion of being near the president, having someone of authority to adhere to and to protect in such a time of crisis, despite her being locked up for something, is also a subconscious assurance on the human mind that things could be right again, so long as we just climb that next mountain, fly to the nearest star.

[Liebestraume]

As for Roslin and the guard, I think he wants to believe her to be some form of prophet, perhaps, simply for the same reason any would -- it's a sign of hope in a sea of darkness. I think that does play a part in things with him and his decisions but even then, I also believe the notion of being near the president, having someone of authority to adhere to and to protect in such a time of crisis, despite her being locked up for something, is also a subconscious assurance on the human mind that things could be right again, so long as we just climb that next mountain, fly to the nearest star.

I hadn't thought about it that far, but what you said makes a lot of sense. The guard had been scared witless, but somehow the idea of doing something important (or even righteous, if he believed in all that prophecy stuff) sufficiently empowered him. At the same time, as a soldier, he had been conditioned to taking orders; having the authoritative Roslin nearby probably put him in his comfort zone. Quite an ironic twist.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Battlestar Galactica -- where even characters whose names we can't recall for the life of us contain more depth than the leads for most other shows worldwide.

[Easter Lily]

Very true Jeff...
BSG is, in my opinion, the most profoundly character driven scifi show I have ever seen... and I daresay its character development probably leaves most other shows for dead as well.

Here are some more thoughts on the two-parter...
http://www.livejournal.com/users/liliumscribe/5633.html

[Agent_Dark]

Who dares, wins.

I believe that's the British Navy's motto, isn't it? I know it's the British... something-or-other's, I can't quite recall which. .

It's actually the motto of the British (and Aussie!) SAS

Something I found interesting was the fact that Baltar wakes up where those skulls where, and Six tells him about the sacrifices and such that took place on Kobol. And then later on in the episode he witnesses Socoinus (or what ever his name was) be euthanased - something that has sparked alot of debate in real life over its morality.

[Jeff O'Connor]

It's actually the motto of the British (and Aussie!) SAS

Hey, thanks!

Something I found interesting was the fact that Baltar wakes up where those skulls where, and Six tells him about the sacrifices and such that took place on Kobol. And then later on in the episode he witnesses Socoinus (or what ever his name was) be euthanased - something that has sparked alot of debate in real life over its morality.

Ooh, also interesting...

[Egeria]

I watched this ep tonight, crikey I can't get over the pace that this show sets. I've watched every ep so far and have to admit that I've been waiting for the inevitable 'slow down', but no show.

Watching BSG is akin to taking an illeagal substance....what a buzz. It really is a head rush.

I loved the insight into Kara's world, the artistic side to her really was a surprise.

The best bit for me , though, was the Tyrol/euthanasia scene...god I felt so emotional, it put goosebumps on me, it really got to me. This series really doesn't try to hide from the realties of life. Yes it is dark, but that's why I love it. It's honest, and so character driven beyond belief. Fantastic stuff.

[entil2001]

This week continues the slow but steady exploration of all the craziness from the first season finale, and I couldn’t be happier. There’s no shortage of body count or red-shirts, and the stakes continue to rise as none of the adversaries, human or otherwise, seem ready to let threats from the outside get in the way of a grudge.

It would have been so easy for Tigh and Lee to bury the hatchet and let the whole business over the president be bygones. At least, I would have expected that from some other series. The writers didn’t disappoint me, because instead of taking the easy way out, they were only civil to one another while their goals were temporarily aligned. They didn’t discuss it outright or go into detail about it after the fact. They worked together when convenient, and then naturally acted like it never happened.

Speaking of the boarding party, I’m glad that there wasn’t some major lag between the end of the previous episode and the continuation of hostilities. I’m also very happy that the Cylon virus didn’t simply disappear. Consequences are everything on this show, and everything that happens in this episode is a consequence of poor command decisions in the premiere. It’s hard to think about that as the stakes get higher with every passing moment; quite literally, they brought the siege upon themselves.

The real question is whether or not the virus is going to continue to be a problem in the future. Wouldn’t it be fun to see Adama asking Tigh, in that low but deadly voice, why there’s a Cylon virus running around a bunch of systems that were never supposed to be connected? Like the previous episode, this is an ongoing commentary into the weaknesses of Tigh, and it’s not pretty. The man may be holding a grudge in realistic fashion, but it still doesn’t make it a good choice!

Events on Kobol seem more and more like a way to put the screws to Baltar and whatever allegiance he may retain to humanity. Those visions once again seem metaphorical, though it’s hard to tell with this series. Specific or otherwise, Baltar doesn’t just believe that a hybrid is necessary, but that humanity (embodied by the most threatening of humans) is the enemy of that necessary future. Step by step, Baltar is being conditioned into the perfect weapon against humanity.

I have the sinking feeling that the writers are slowly but surely wiping out the survivors on Kobol so that at some point before the remaining few are rescued, one of the better known characters will die. They’re simply running out of red-shirts down there! Six’s warning is just vague enough to make it possible that everyone but Baltar will die, but then again, it’s impossible to know if she’s saying all of that as part of the conditioning.

One thing that I didn’t quite get, from a story perspective, were the scenes on Caprica. They seemed out of place, though it was probably necessary to explain how Starbuck and Helo manage to get around in the following episodes. Was there a point to those scenes, though, beyond that plot element? It was some minor insight into Starbuck’s character, but at the moment, it doesn’t seem all that important in relation to the rest of the episode.

On the other hand, though, those scenes did give me a chance to breathe between the scenes on Galactica and Kobol, so I suppose they served that purpose. Overall, this was another fine installment. I really love how all these plot threads continue to move forward, bit by bit, and the writers don’t feel the need to bash the audience over the head with explicit meaning. The story is what it is, and the audience is invited along for the ride.

[Liebestraume]

entil2001, I see this is only your 3rd post, so welcome aboard!

That was an excellent review. I enjoyed it especially because your approach seems to be through plot-advancement and hence brought up some points I hadn't considered before. The ramification of the virus, for example, is very interesting, but I kinda glossed it over while watching the show as I have a tendency to see each episode as character moments strung together.

As such, I think I have answer to your following question:

One thing that I didn’t quite get, from a story perspective, were the scenes on Caprica. They seemed out of place, though it was probably necessary to explain how Starbuck and Helo manage to get around in the following episodes. Was there a point to those scenes, though, beyond that plot element? It was some minor insight into Starbuck’s character, but at the moment, it doesn’t seem all that important in relation to the rest of the episode.

I think the segment in Kara's "apartment" was quite significant. It looks like she is stuck on Caprica for a while, and the experience ultimately will have profound impact on her characterization (or at least so I hope). So, it's important for the viewers to learn who she was, how she got there, and why she does what she does. It is true that this part has nothing to do with what goes on elsewhere (at the moment), but BSG has always had these type of parallel storylines going then tied together at some later episode.

[bad_ronald]

In fact, taking a second here to express my feelings regarding the artwork in particular... someone seriously does need to demonstrate a stillframe of whatever was written back there, I read only a little in my small chance to do so and am entirely intrigued.

No stillframe but...

Starbuck's Poem (as best I could read it):
*Note: see post #39 for revised version

Method sly
Smoking my
cigarette
every breath
breathe
the day
with every delicious
sip
I drink away the night
stroking my hair to
the beat of his heart
watching a
Boy turn
into a
Man