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Thread: 1969 (221)

  1. #81
    Second Lieutenant jyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by line17
    I would like to see this episode remade, but from a 1969 perspective.

    The stargate in 1969: I wonder what happened after it was seen in operation.
    Good point, what was the fallout after the "ancient artifact" (Stargate) was seen in operation in 1969? Must've made TPTB in the military wonder about what it was, and who the people were who fired on the guards, and used the 'device' and disappeared. All that MUST exist in some file or report SOMEWHERE. And coincidentally, Catherine picks just around that time to renew interest & study of the Stargate. I'm sure somebody would have put two and two together.

    Like many others, I too have trouble with time-travel episodes, and 1969 is a perfect example of why: 1999: General Hammond gives Carter a note. 1969: Lt. Hammond reads the note & follows the directions. When Lt Hammond gets older, becomes general, and the year is once again 1999, does he write ANOTHER note to give to Carter? How many times does that particular loop occur? Boggles the mind.

    Another things that bugs me about this episode is how easily things seem to fall into place. The hippie bus drives up to the local neighborhood observatory, and Jack & Teal'c go in. They just walk right in--no questions asked, no explanation given--and apparently have the whole place to themselves. No guards, no employees, no bothersome distractions. (For the record, Voyager had an almost identical scenario, but at least there were people there that Tom Paris had to do some fast talking to.)
    Then, when they find the armory (and there are HOW MANY armories in Washington? Yet they manage to find the right one), the Stargate is conveniently stored on its end, and not piled behind a bunch of boxes and crates. It's too easily accessible. Oh, and there happen to be a number of large military vehicles within 20 yards to provide power to get the gate going.

    i know I sound like I'm nitpicking & complaining, and I guess I am, but what's odd is that I actually LIKE this episode. I think it presents some great scenes and has some great fun. But the coincidences and glossing over of major details can't help but rankle.

    To recap: HATE time-travel episodes (hint, hint), but LOVE the semi-comic episodes, and fish-out-of-water scenes can be a lot of fun.

  2. #82
    Lieutenant Colonel
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    Wink Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by jyh
    Good point, what was the fallout after the "ancient artifact" (Stargate) was seen in operation in 1969? Must've made TPTB in the military wonder about what it was, and who the people were who fired on the guards, and used the 'device' and disappeared. All that MUST exist in some file or report SOMEWHERE. And coincidentally, Catherine picks just around that time to renew interest & study of the Stargate. I'm sure somebody would have put two and two together.

    Like many others, I too have trouble with time-travel episodes, and 1969 is a perfect example of why: 1999: General Hammond gives Carter a note. 1969: Lt. Hammond reads the note & follows the directions. When Lt Hammond gets older, becomes general, and the year is once again 1999, does he write ANOTHER note to give to Carter? How many times does that particular loop occur? Boggles the mind.

    Another things that bugs me about this episode is how easily things seem to fall into place. The hippie bus drives up to the local neighborhood observatory, and Jack & Teal'c go in. They just walk right in--no questions asked, no explanation given--and apparently have the whole place to themselves. No guards, no employees, no bothersome distractions. (For the record, Voyager had an almost identical scenario, but at least there were people there that Tom Paris had to do some fast talking to.)
    Then, when they find the armory (and there are HOW MANY armories in Washington? Yet they manage to find the right one), the Stargate is conveniently stored on its end, and not piled behind a bunch of boxes and crates. It's too easily accessible. Oh, and there happen to be a number of large military vehicles within 20 yards to provide power to get the gate going.

    i know I sound like I'm nitpicking & complaining, and I guess I am, but what's odd is that I actually LIKE this episode. I think it presents some great scenes and has some great fun. But the coincidences and glossing over of major details can't help but rankle.

    To recap: HATE time-travel episodes (hint, hint), but LOVE the semi-comic episodes, and fish-out-of-water scenes can be a lot of fun.
    OK, 1969 has never been one of my favorites, but it is enjoyable to watch...has some great lines in it and yes, I too hate time travel episodes.

    However, even with the gaping plot holes, remember, it's just a TV show.....and with a limited number of minutes to present a cohesive story, sometimes you have to suspend belief, just a tad.
    On fighting:
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  3. #83
    Second Lieutenant QuiGonJohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    I loved this episode, (faults and all). Loved Hammond at the end, asking for his money, with interest.

    An interesting thing. I re-watched the pilot yesterday and when Hammond was contemplating whether to lock out the iris/codes, I wondered if he was remembering helping SG-1 in 1969.

  4. #84
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuiGonJohn
    I loved this episode, (faults and all). Loved Hammond at the end, asking for his money, with interest.

    An interesting thing. I re-watched the pilot yesterday and when Hammond was contemplating whether to lock out the iris/codes, I wondered if he was remembering helping SG-1 in 1969.
    He had to have been. And I'm not just saying it because I love all those fanfics that deal with this stuff from his pov; 1969 was one hell of a weird thing in his early life. If it were me, I'd sure as hell be curious about it.
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  5. #85
    First Lieutenant twiggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    i liked this ep even though time travel is impossible. it just made me laugh. i really loved all the clothes. they looked so groovy! hehe
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  6. #86
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iku Rex
    I had to register just to comment on this episode.

    It's bad. It's really, really bad.

    Why can't TV writers understand that time travel is stupid? It is absurd. It is impossible. <Sigh>.

    The time travel rules in the Stargate SG-1 reality require a silly, predetermined universe with no free will, yet the main characters keep whining about how they shouldn't "change" anything (important). As if they could.
    IMO if you joined GW just to slag off 1969 then that's just sad. This is far from the worst SG episode made (thinks 'lots of others'...maybe not lots, but you get my drift)
    Last edited by Egeria; May 9th, 2005 at 12:34 AM.

  7. #87
    Second Lieutenant QuiGonJohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Egeria, I don't think there are a lot of bad SG episodes. Even some of the 'worst' have their redeeming qualities.

  8. #88
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    Post Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuiGonJohn
    Egeria, I don't think there are a lot of bad SG episodes. Even some of the 'worst' have their redeeming qualities.
    I have to agree. I used to dislike 1969, but the more I watch it, the more things I see in it I missed. I've learned that even the episodes I thought were not up to SG-1's usual great quality, usually had redeeming moments in them, and were worth watching. But then I'm a fanantic, so what does my opinion count for?
    On fighting:
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    Dr. Who: "Then he's an idiot."

  9. #89
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    Wink Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iku Rex
    I had to register just to comment on this episode.

    It's bad. It's really, really bad.

    Why can't TV writers understand that time travel is stupid? It is absurd. It is impossible. <Sigh>.

    The time travel rules in the Stargate SG-1 reality require a silly, predetermined universe with no free will, yet the main characters keep whining about how they shouldn't "change" anything (important). As if they could.
    When it is finally proved to me that Time travel is impossible, and I mean PROVED, then I'll believe it. As for TV time travel, come on. It's been the basis for whole TV's series!

    And if you think time travel is "stupid", you must really not like alot of the writers' storylines in SG-1. Where should I start? OK, I'll be VERY brief....how about Dr. Frasier, finding cures for everything????? Now that takes real suspension of belief!

    I enjoyed watching the episode 1969, time travel and all.

  10. #90
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Egeria
    IMO if you joined GW just to slag off 1969 then that's just sad. This is far from the worst SG episode made (thinks 'lots of others')
    I wouldn't say lots of others, but they do definitely exist. I've always enjoyed this one, personlly. And as someone else said, there are always good points even to bad eps. Well. Usually, there are. There's one ep in particular that has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever, but I can't tell you which one because I've blocked it from my memory completely.
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    Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
    -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

  11. #91

    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer
    When it is finally proved to me that Time travel is impossible, and I mean PROVED, then I'll believe it.
    Ok. Can do.

    Example 1: Killing your own grandfather, so that you're never born, meaning that you can't kill your grandfather, meaning that you're born, meaning that you kill your grandfather etc. (Mentioned in the episode IIRC and promptly ignored.)

    Example 2: You find a way to send signals a few seconds back in time. You rig some C4 to the radio transceiver, and set it to explode as soon as the signal arrives. You wait a bit and send the signal back in time. The signal arrives. The transceiver explodes. The signal is not sent. The transceiver doesn't explode... (And so on and so forth...)

    Stargate-style time travel leads to absurdity. This proves that it's impossible. (Reductio ad absurdum.)

    (The simple fix: Alternate realities. Don't like those very much either, but a "1969 reality" would provide the exact same opportunity to put Teal'c in a funny wig.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Believer
    As for TV time travel, come on. It's been the basis for whole TV's series!
    Yes. Really, really bad TV series. (Was I somehow unclear about my opinion on this. )
    Quote Originally Posted by Believer
    And if you think time travel is "stupid", you must really not like alot of the writers' storylines in SG-1. Where should I start? OK, I'll be VERY brief....how about Dr. Frasier, finding cures for everything????? Now that takes real suspension of belief!
    She doesn't "find cures for everything". If anything, her main task seems to be to either declare that nothing is wrong, or to discover some unfixable "brain problem".

    More importantly, there's nothing inherently illogical about finding a cure for a disease, even a super-science cure for a super-science disease from the show.

  12. #92
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    Wink Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iku Rex
    Ok. Can do.

    Example 1: Killing your own grandfather, so that you're never born, meaning that you can't kill your grandfather, meaning that you're born, meaning that you kill your grandfather etc. (Mentioned in the episode IIRC and promptly ignored.)

    Example 2: You find a way to send signals a few seconds back in time. You rig some C4 to the radio transceiver, and set it to explode as soon as the signal arrives. You wait a bit and send the signal back in time. The signal arrives. The transceiver explodes. The signal is not sent. The transceiver doesn't explode... (And so on and so forth...)

    Stargate-style time travel leads to absurdity. This proves that it's impossible. (Reductio ad absurdum.)

    (The simple fix: Alternate realities. Don't like those very much either, but a "1969 reality" would provide the exact same opportunity to put Teal'c in a funny wig.)
    Yes. Really, really bad TV series. (Was I somehow unclear about my opinion on this. )
    She doesn't "find cures for everything". If anything, her main task seems to be to either declare that nothing is wrong, or to discover some unfixable "brain problem".

    More importantly, there's nothing inherently illogical about finding a cure for a disease, even a super-science cure for a super-science disease from the show.
    Sorry, but I just read both posts and you haven't "proved" anything, except you have your own opinions and Believer has his.

    As for "there is nothing inherently illogical about finding a cure for a disease", well, yes there is, when you find it as quickly as Dr. Fraiser did, considering how long, in real life, it takes. Come on, you get real. Fraiser solved problems our best docs and research scientists would be struggling over for years. She saw things we have only dreamt of, yet she found a way to "fix" MANY of them, all inside of one episode. I loved her character, but that, in addition to several real medical errors, was my only beef with it.

    But that's just my opinion (although maybe a bit more informed than yours, but maybe not). Oh, and if you are still in school, the Latin is fine, but you need a logic course, to use it properly.
    Last edited by Lida; May 11th, 2005 at 05:43 AM.
    On fighting:
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    Dr. Who: "Then he's an idiot."

  13. #93

    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lida
    Sorry, but I just read both posts and you haven't "proved" anything, except you have your own opinions and Believer has his.
    Your inability to understand the proof does not make it invalid.

  14. #94
    Second Lieutenant QuiGonJohn's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Iku, your "proofs" are not really proofs that time travel is impossible. But merely examples of conundrums that time travel could cause. It doesn't mean someone couldn't go back in time and see their grandfather when he was young. It just talks about how would things transpire if that person were to then kill their grandfather.

  15. #95
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iku Rex
    Yes. Really, really bad TV series.
    Like the new series of Doctor Who? That's anything but bad!

  16. #96
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G
    Like the new series of Doctor Who? That's anything but bad!
    Too right...well said

  17. #97
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Iku Rex
    Your inability to understand the proof does not make it invalid.
    Iku Rex, you offered logic. Good logic, but it presupposes that the phenomenon of time works on the principles of logic upon which your argument was based. And you have no scientific basis to make that claim because our understanding of the physics of time is far too limited to hazard even an educated guess about its complexities. Many, many centuries ago, Aristotle did much the same thing when he was trying to determine the way the natural world worked. His suppositions were quite elegantly logical. Unfortunately, as later scholars found, when you actually try them out, they don't match reality.

    I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that we, like the people of Aristotle's day, simply don't have the ability to test your hypothesis to see if it's correct. And we're missing most of the evidence.
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    -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

  18. #98
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    Re: 1969 (221)

    1969 a good year shame i wasent alive oh well good episode one of my favourites for season 2 great follown on with 2010.
    For all the pollution woes on Earth, will the Human race end up taking those problems into space in the future?

    We can all call our ships Sports Utility Ships to curtail the carbon emissions and hypersleep at night

  19. #99
    Staff Sergeant Aleca's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    You are not honestly arguing over 'time travel' in SciFi shows here, are you? lol I mean, c'mon why else do we watch it, but to see that kind of stuff.
    I actually love all the time travel shows. Maybe just because, I'd love to go back in time and see how things were before I was born.
    1969 was funny, not as angsty as 2010. But I love both episdes. But well, I am obsessed with SG anyway, so...forget it.

  20. #100
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    Default Re: 1969 (221)

    Quote Originally Posted by Selmak
    I don't remember that scene in the pic being in the episode... it must have been a publicity shot.
    Neither do I.... they are nice pics, though.
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