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  1. #81
    First Lieutenant Dinoman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    After thousand of years taken over by a Goa'uld why the host suddenly come up and speak with Daniel? Is it because the symbiote is dying and lost control over his host? Have they ever consider sending Apophis to the Tokra and extract the symbiote in order to save the host?

  2. #82
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinoman View Post
    After thousand of years taken over by a Goa'uld why the host suddenly come up and speak with Daniel?
    Daniel is the only one who speaks Egyptian. Remember Aphosis has been living for thousands of years.
    Is it because the symbiote is dying and lost control over his host?
    Yes
    Have they ever consider sending Apophis to the Tokra and extract the symbiote in order to save the host?
    They explain that in a future episode. The host has been throught the sarchpagus so many times and is so is old the body can not live without the healing properties of the symbiote.
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  3. #83
    Captain gateship15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    fantastic episode to see Apophis dieing and to hear the host after being locked away for so long this is an episode that i will watch again

  4. #84
    First Lieutenant The Stig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    I love the scene in which teal'c confronts Apophis as he is dying. Great acting.
    Some say that he has only one ear.
    And that he solved the Da Vinci Code in 3 minutes.
    All we know is he's called

  5. #85
    Major Crazedwraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    A review to meet Amonconway's Challenge.

    A summary


    Serpent's Song is a pretty significant episode. Carrying on from the opening episode of season 2 and the Teal'c episode Family we find out Apophsis although unexpectedly surviving his Ha'taks exploding has lost enough prestige and power among the system lords that they're all after him. Sokar in particular have been torturing the guy. He's escaped and now he wants sanctuary. So SG-1 being the self proclaimed good guys take him back to Earth. Where Fraiser fins out he's pretty much dying and they can't help without a sarcophagus. Teal'c and Jack are pretty much fine with Apophsis just snuffing it. but hammond wants to pump him for as much information as possible. So each of the team gets to interrogate him. Apophsis tries to bargin with Jack, Daniel tries to find out about Shaure and Teal'c just gloats.

    Mean while the Tok'Ra arrive with a dire warning Sokar wants Apophisis back and he's not going to take no for an answer. To this end he dial earth and start firing off a particle accelerator at Earth's iris, slowly heating it up and threatening to melt it entirely but he has to redial every 38 minutes.

    Fearful of an all out attack from space as well as Sokar's accelerator weapon Earth capitulates; cutting off Apophsis' medical aid and killing him in short order. Carter develops a fast dialing program to dial out as soon as Sokar hits the 38 minute window and they send Apophsis' corpse back to Sokar. Who apparently would prefer to beat up on Heru-Ur than continue his attack upon us after he got want he wanted.

    Analysis
    Like all episodes Serpent's Song has some good points and some bad points. It is undoubtedly very well acted by all members of its cast and the plot moves along the over arc fairly well. Apophsis has fallen and we hear rumblings of the next big bad: Sokar. Who we will see more of in Season 3. It also contains early example of what will become a major theme in season 4 and later which is tension between Earth and its allies in the Tok'Ra. The Tok'Ra are very critical of the SGC in this episode and pretty much try to command Hammond into doing want they want.

    Still I can't help but feel that this episode is fairly clutter, The Tok'Ra and Iris attack scenes et up time that could have been used more to deal with the dilemma of what to with Apophsis. More time could have been used to expand Fraiser's role and her ethical objects to what they were doing. Or Daniel taking a turn to the dark side tried to get shau'ri's location out of him. (something akin to him gunning down helpless primta in season 1)

    The Iris attack scene for example takes up time and is very cheaply solved. Carter whips up an extra quick dialling program in no time at all. One wonders why she hadn't done this before if it was so easy.

    Some Highlights
    • Christopher Judge's acting. Very understated but there's a certain smugness and delight in Apophsis' fall that comes over very well.
    • Martouf/Lantash in the breifing scene. The two personalities are very distinct and have roughly equal screen time in the episode. Unlike most Tok'Ra who we mainly seem to hear from one personality (usually the symbiote) in this case we hear from them both and they are wildly different in the way they express their feelings.
    • Fraiser, especially early on. Playing to role of the good doctor sticking to her guns as far as her ethics are concerned. Its not really and uncommon characterisation; most TV doctors are like this but Teryl Rothery does pull it off well.
    Last edited by Crazedwraith; July 13th, 2009 at 12:05 PM. Reason: typos and tags

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  6. #86
    Lieutenant Colonel amconway's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Interesting analysis-and thanks for the addition to the challenge! I agree with you about the quality of the acting in this episode, but I fear I must disagree with some of your points.

    I thought the action sequences were important as they raised the stakes, and added a time element, and tension to the mix. If it hadn't been for the attack, they could have kept Apophis, after all. There had to be a reason to give him back. Besides that fact that an action/adventure series, really need, you know, action.

    Or Daniel taking a turn to the dark side tried to get shau'ri's location out of him. (something akin to him gunning down helpless primta in season 1)
    Daniel almost did, although I don't see it as 'dark side', so much as part of Daniel's nature. He'll give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but once he's decided someone/thing is intrinsically bad, he can be very ruthless in fighting them. And he won't ever stop trying. The only thing that stopped him here was the emergence of the host, which gave us a wonderful moment of Daniel going from ruthless to compassionate in an instant. His ability to move between extremes like that is one of the most interesting things about the character.

    Admittedly, it would have been nice if this had been a two-parter, so that more time could have been spent on all elements, including Sam's solution. This episode was just jam packed, and they did have to rush the end a little. At the same time, they were up against it, and the breakneck pace of the episode emphasized that.

  7. #87
    Major Crazedwraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Well one could argue that there was already a time limit in the episode; Apophsis was dying after all; that's a limit right there and then. Trying to pump him for information before he finally croaks. A task made more difficult by Fraiser getting in the way. That's an episode in and of itself.

    Of course the Sokar subplot does serve several solid purposes; mainly it gets Apophsis' body out of Earth's hands. Meaning we don't get to study it at area 51 and of course opens the door for his eventual return.

    Which of course is another problem I have with the episode since seeing the rest of the series. In the end its a pretty pointless episode. After all the fuss they make bout Sokar he's in what two more episodes? Three more if we count Demons with his Unas Lackey, then he takes a moon to the face and is replaced by our old friend Apophsis.


    I do like the idea of Serpent's Song as a sort of two parter. Have all the interrogation scenes and so forth and have sokar only attack at the very end of the episode. When Apophsis has ironically, already died.

    Heru-Ur at the same problem in THor's Chariot & Secrets they kept trying to built them up as a villian comparable to Apophsis and never followed through enough for us to see it was true. They just kept telling us how evil he was and never showing it.

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  8. #88

    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    o it was great episode one of my favorite!!It was just awesome that apophis was depending of sg1`s mercy.and it was interesting to see the apophis` host.poor guy-trapped tousand years in his own body!!!Like Daniel said is unimaginable.

  9. #89
    Air Force Chief of Staff mrscopterdoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedwraith View Post
    • christopher judge's acting. Very understated but there's a certain smugness and delight in apophsis' fall that comes over very well.
    • martouf/lantash in the breifing scene. The two personalities are very distinct and have roughly equal screen time in the episode. Unlike most tok'ra who we mainly seem to hear from one personality (usually the symbiote) in this case we hear from them both and they are wildly different in the way they express their feelings.
    • fraiser, especially early on. Playing to role of the good doctor sticking to her guns as far as her ethics are concerned. Its not really and uncommon characterisation; most tv doctors are like this but teryl rothery does pull it off well.
    I agree with this. Not one of my favorite epiosdes because I am not wild about Apophis. I love the part where Daniel gets tough with him.

  10. #90
    Major Lunaeclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by walter_MacChevron View Post
    I loved that Jack had a darker side in this episode......"let me know when he is dead"........or something like that
    I thought one of the best quotes was when he told Apophis to take it up with his god and then reminded him that he was his own god.

  11. #91
    Major Lunaeclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harlan's Speechwriter View Post
    I was a little surprised at just how harshly Jack seemed to react to Apophis, especially as Apophis has caused no harm to him personally (that I can recall) or, at least, not in the same way that Daniel and Teal'c have suffered. I get the impression that, after everything Apophis has put them through, he just wants to get rid of him. I can understand that, but it does seem strange that an officer of his rank wouldn't think beyond that.
    Um didn't pops kill Jack in the Nox episode? And he was responsible for taking Skaara that Jack had close personal attachment to.

  12. #92
    Major Lunaeclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Jack doesn't like Apophis because he took Skaara away and Skaara was almost like a son-kinda thing to him. Also Pops killed Jack, Daniel and Sam in the nox ep. I don't think Jack takes nicely to that either.

    Daniel's reason is similar except it was his wife and Apophis did more to hurt Daniel - and in Daniel's denfense Apophis started the 'argument' in this ep.

    Teal'c has the whole servatude/slave thing and then had to give up his family to free his people. He saw the way Apophis treated people and it seems by what he said that Teal'c thought he should suffer a little too.

    Sam's being killed by him seems to be the only reason she would have, or am I forgetting something?

    This episode started off with me being happy that someone, even if it wasn't SG1, finally beat him. Then Jack, all smug makes one of my favourite quotes about Apophis being his own god, and makes other funny remarks. Then we see (not in order) The host and we see that he has suffered the most at the 'hands' of Apophis. It shows us that Daniel and Teal'c have more hate for the serpent (aptly nicknamed) than we thought. Dr stands up to Teal'c at a time when he was acting 'fearsome', which was dramatic. When the host dies it's sad and Daniel shows compassion, obviously seeing past Pops and realising that the host was innocent. And we get to kinda meet the new baddie. The Tok'ra adding the fear factor to it.

    For me this episode was a rollercoaster in the good way. It had a bit of everything.

  13. #93
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    I always found this episode to be rather boring. I do think it is interesting that every one had their turn with Apophis and all but Sam had a personal reason to hate him. Sam on the other hand, got involved because she wanted to go through the Stargate and this is her job, and when she talks to Apophis for her it really is all business. Janet was another anchor of strength here, acting as the moral conscience. (Interestingly a role Daniel often fills as well, but can't here given his hate for Apophis.) She is going to show compassion and fulfill her role as a physician regardless of the patient. Love her for that.

  14. #94
    Major Lunaeclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by hlndncr View Post
    I always found this episode to be rather boring. I do think it is interesting that every one had their turn with Apophis and all but Sam had a personal reason to hate him. Sam on the other hand, got involved because she wanted to go through the Stargate and this is her job, and when she talks to Apophis for her it really is all business. Janet was another anchor of strength here, acting as the moral conscience. (Interestingly a role Daniel often fills as well, but can't here given his hate for Apophis.) She is going to show compassion and fulfill her role as a physician regardless of the patient. Love her for that.
    I really admire Janet in this episode. She stood up to Teal'c who is stronger and bigger than her, because of her job and I would guess beliefs. Everyone else wanted to see Apophis suffer, but she thought about basic 'human' rights/needs.


    Facebook post about Alexis Cruz and the Audiobook he's done. If you're a fan of Alexis and his work - you'll love it. Book 1 and 2 are there now. The second one is brilliant, but I can't vouch for the first one (not having heard it), but I'm sure it's just as good, if not better.


    "I'm not gonna eat it - that's disgusting... I'm gonna wear it as a worm-stache." - Misha Collins (Supernatural Season 6 Gag Reel)
    "Becker, it leads to the Victorian Era. What do you think is going to come through, an Oliver-Twist-Asaurus?" - Connor - Primeval.

    Alexis Cruz - Facebook. (insert Klorel/Skaara icon here...) and ThunkThread ~ The Unprofessionals page for updates. ~
    a game for Teal'c fans ~ Skaara/Klorel disscussion ~ Character Connection Game ~ "Beyond Redemption"...

  15. #95
    President Snow hlndncr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunaeclipse View Post
    I really admire Janet in this episode. She stood up to Teal'c who is stronger and bigger than her, because of her job and I would guess beliefs. Everyone else wanted to see Apophis suffer, but she thought about basic 'human' rights/needs.
    I agree. This was a really great episode for Janet. It shows the kind of strong, moral person she is.

  16. #96
    Major Lunaeclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    I loved seeing the dark side of Tea'c in his episode too. For me he has always been controlled and in this episode we get to see that there was some anger in there. I think we all knew it was there, but it was something else to actually see it in him. For me it was a scene that gave Teal'c more depth of character.


    Facebook post about Alexis Cruz and the Audiobook he's done. If you're a fan of Alexis and his work - you'll love it. Book 1 and 2 are there now. The second one is brilliant, but I can't vouch for the first one (not having heard it), but I'm sure it's just as good, if not better.


    "I'm not gonna eat it - that's disgusting... I'm gonna wear it as a worm-stache." - Misha Collins (Supernatural Season 6 Gag Reel)
    "Becker, it leads to the Victorian Era. What do you think is going to come through, an Oliver-Twist-Asaurus?" - Connor - Primeval.

    Alexis Cruz - Facebook. (insert Klorel/Skaara icon here...) and ThunkThread ~ The Unprofessionals page for updates. ~
    a game for Teal'c fans ~ Skaara/Klorel disscussion ~ Character Connection Game ~ "Beyond Redemption"...

  17. #97
    General maneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Great episode, lots of food for thought for later. One thing that bugged me though, if it only took 30 minutes to reprogram the dialling computer for a faster sequence, why the heck didn't they do so earlier? I got sick of the slow original sequence after seeing it about three or four times...
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/manephelien/avatars/deadtribbles.jpg

  18. #98
    Chief Master Sergeant ChulaksPrincess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    This was a good episode. I felt sorry for the host of Apofis. Teal'c attempting to stop Jannet from giving him pain medicine was quite a moment to remember. Jack was so happy Apofis was dying. That was funny.

  19. #99
    General majorsal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChulaksPrincess View Post
    This was a good episode. I felt sorry for the host of Apofis. Teal'c attempting to stop Jannet from giving him pain medicine was quite a moment to remember. Jack was so happy Apofis was dying. That was funny.
    i remember being very impressed with the numerous emotions this ep could bring up/out. it wasn't black and white with this character's death... good storytelling.
    sally


  20. #100
    Major Lunaeclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serpent's Song (218)

    This was a good ep to show the other side of the human and host relationship.


    Facebook post about Alexis Cruz and the Audiobook he's done. If you're a fan of Alexis and his work - you'll love it. Book 1 and 2 are there now. The second one is brilliant, but I can't vouch for the first one (not having heard it), but I'm sure it's just as good, if not better.


    "I'm not gonna eat it - that's disgusting... I'm gonna wear it as a worm-stache." - Misha Collins (Supernatural Season 6 Gag Reel)
    "Becker, it leads to the Victorian Era. What do you think is going to come through, an Oliver-Twist-Asaurus?" - Connor - Primeval.

    Alexis Cruz - Facebook. (insert Klorel/Skaara icon here...) and ThunkThread ~ The Unprofessionals page for updates. ~
    a game for Teal'c fans ~ Skaara/Klorel disscussion ~ Character Connection Game ~ "Beyond Redemption"...

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