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    Babylon 5-best Sci-fi Ever?

    I decdied to buy the first season of babylon 5 on DVD because everybody was always talking about how brilliant the series was; people said the first season was not very godd, but i thought i should start at the start all the same. the first half was ropey, but the second half- WOW, it started to concentrate on characters more and ARC stories more, and it was simply brilliant... two weeks later I got the SECOND SEASON;THE COMING OF SHADOWS on DVD and from the very first episode I knew it was going to be brilliant; It was very arc and character based, and was very good fun; but it also had a darker edge to it; the whole poltical intrigue thing surrounding the earthpresident was brilliant; it was EXTREMLY GRIPPING and who felt sorry for G'kar when he found out that Quadrant 37 was destroyed by the centauri hours after offering Londo his friendship? SOME BRILLIANT ACTING THERE... PS:I'm getting the third season soon; and people say that that is the best, but i'm wondering how they've beaten season two; if they have it will most likey be the best season of any programme ever? can any B5 fans out there tell me how good SEASON THREE is?

    #2
    Seasons 3 and 4 are the zenith of Babylon 5, though they DID suffer from JMS cramming materials intended for season 5 into them because he wasn't assured of a chance of finishing the series.

    As a result, some of the obvious intended plot tie ins of events in Season 5 don't get a chance to come off (if you think about what was needed in Season 4 that materializes in Season 5, it'll be obvious). Season 5 REALLY suffered though, being the worst of all the seasons in my estimation. The budget was greatly reduced and most of the interesting elements JMS had intended for the series were already spent in the "hurry up" of Seasons 3 & 4.

    Of course, the series also suffered from a rather severe "cheese" factor. JMS is too much of an ego-maniac to allow himself to listen to dialogue editors, so the dialogue is often dreadfully bad. The romantic involvements of characters other than the leads are alos painfully cliched... but few scifi creators seem to get the romance thing right (and those that do seem to allow it to dominate everything else) so you have to take the good with the bad.

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      #3
      Originally posted by SISKO
      I decdied to buy the first season of babylon 5 on DVD because everybody was always talking about how brilliant the series was; people said the first season was not very godd, but i thought i should start at the start all the same. the first half was ropey, but the second half- WOW, it started to concentrate on characters more and ARC stories more, and it was simply brilliant... two weeks later I got the SECOND SEASON;THE COMING OF SHADOWS on DVD and from the very first episode I knew it was going to be brilliant; It was very arc and character based, and was very good fun; but it also had a darker edge to it; the whole poltical intrigue thing surrounding the earthpresident was brilliant; it was EXTREMLY GRIPPING and who felt sorry for G'kar when he found out that Quadrant 37 was destroyed by the centauri hours after offering Londo his friendship? SOME BRILLIANT ACTING THERE... PS:I'm getting the third season soon; and people say that that is the best, but i'm wondering how they've beaten season two; if they have it will most likey be the best season of any programme ever? can any B5 fans out there tell me how good SEASON THREE is?
      Good story, bad acting, lame aliens, except Vorlons and Shadows. Minbari and Centauri were just plain lame. Not as bad as Andromeda, but not the best sci-fi.

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        #4
        Seasons 3 and 4 were the best, for sure, and 5, the worst. Now, we're not talking 'Sliders Season 5' bad, or anything that atrocious, but... just... it doesn't grok as well as the others. Actually, I think it and 1 might be tied for me in terms of worst, come to think of it. Anyway...

        I think John Sheridan rocked, start to finish. Ivanova and Delenn were also personal favorites of mine, as well as Marcus and... what was his name... the do ctor... ugh... I have to go back and rewatch the show! And Garibaldi I liked too. And... okay, I'm starting to realize I liked the whole cast. G'Kar and Zack, and Londo and... all right, everyone.

        Now, here comes the unfortunate fate of the show:

        Spoiler:
        Granted, the story arc is finished and punctuated and all of that jazz at the end of the fifth year. I mean, there is real conclusion and you feel as though it's a wrap, and a wonderful one at that. However, a few loose ends lead into a couple more movies, and the last movie leaves us with sort've a cliffhangar regarding the fate of Earth. TNT gives the greenlight for a new show with a new cast, Crusade, to continue the legacy. Too bad after a season of advertising it they go back on their word and never air it, so in all fairness, there is one defining gape in the story's 'finale' -- Earth is on lockdown and quarantined. Lovely, eh? Oh, and then they made the pilot for a new show again, which serves well as its own movie, but was still meant to keep going, this time set in the past. Oh... great idea, there. That never got picked up. Then they were slated to make a new movie now about Technomages but I believe that recently fell apart. So... tis the Babylon legacy until further notice and probably forever to have our blue sphere screwed.
        If you've seen a Jeff O'Connor or a JeffZero or a Jeff Zero or a JeffZeroConnor elsewhere on the net, there's a considerable chance it's me.

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          #5
          season 1 and 2 were setup, 3 and 4 the best plot wise. season 5 suffered from 'all you get is 4 seasons wrap it up...oh wait, we changed our minds' so some plots were shut down, some forcefully restarted. there was a contract issue with claudia christianson so ivanova was replaced and so on and so on

          i agree, some of the dialogue was cheesy. from what i've heard rda and jms would NOT get along. ad libbing was strictly forbidden

          however, for all its short comings, it was dang good television. relatively consistent plots and drama and pacing. the odd quirky thing tossed in to break things up

          IMHO, it's one of the better shows out there. there was no shortage of moments during its run and since it had a hardwired continuity you never knew when that 'oh my god!!!' moment would come

          the closest thing to it at the moment is Lost. but time will tell if that holds together or if it dies
          Where in the World is George Hammond?


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            #6
            The third string character acting really was quite bad, wasn't it? As in highschool play bad acting... or even worse.

            Then again, Andreas Katsulas (sp?) and Peter Jurasik were just incredible.

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              #7
              B5 is definitely one of my favorite science fiction TV shows. I own seasons 1-4 on DVD, but I refuse to waste my money on season 5. The problems with season 5 were not JMS's fault, of course; he was told B5 wouldn't be picked up again, so he tried to jam the rest of his 5-year arc into season 4, then surprise - B5 got picked up again - now what to do?

              I know that JMS wrote one entire season's worth of scripts; IIRC, it was season 3.
              I'd start a revolution if I could get up in the morning.

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                #8
                I absolutely loved Babylon 5
                I think it was the first sci fi show I was really really passionate about that I had to watch ever episode and read the books etc.
                The first few seasons were very well written and the effects at the time were awesome.
                I don't think it is as good as Stargate, but certainly ranks as one of the best scifi shows in my opinion.
                Ses
                James Lafazanos - Good for a Laf

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                  #9
                  I love Babylon 5. It´s in my opinion the best science fiction show ever. I must agree: The Centauri and the Narn looked silly. But the acting saved it.
                  I don´t think that the dialogue were bad. JMS tried something more close to style of classical theater than the typical TV show. But for me it worked.
                  Babylon 5 is the best example how good a TV show can be if someone can follow his or her own vision anstead of always only following the next trend.
                  And B5 was after all a nice success maybe not like LOTR but it selled on DVD very well...so unique ideas and financial success doesn´t exclude each other!

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                    #10
                    I loved B5... it had characters i grew attached to, Marcus, Ivoniva, and Lyta being personal favorites... the story arc rocked (except for the last season I was disappointed with it) It was good Sci-Fi, possibly the best sci-fi of that time... it set the bar i feel it was eventually surpassed by Farscape (and though it pains me to say this BSG) but it was the best.
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Vala
                      I loved B5... it had characters i grew attached to, Marcus, Ivoniva, and Lyta being personal favorites... the story arc rocked (except for the last season I was disappointed with it) It was good Sci-Fi, possibly the best sci-fi of that time... it set the bar i feel it was eventually surpassed by Farscape (and though it pains me to say this BSG) but it was the best.
                      For anyone who doesn't know, here's why seasons 3 and 4 feel rushed, and why 5 is lame. The entire series was plotted out before JMS got the green light for any of it--start to finish, all five seasons; he got a tentative contract for all five seasons. Then, half-way through season three, he was told that the contract for season five was being trashed, and season four was it. So he tried to squeeze two and a half seasons worth of story into one and a half. Then, three quarters of the way through season four, he got word that the series was doing well enough that he'd get a season five after all. But he'd already speeded things up so he had no story thought out ahead of time, and was having to scramble to come up with new stuff all of a sudden, at a time when he was beginning to get burned out. He was far more intimitely involved with the series than most TV producers ever are; in fact, he is the only person ever to write an entire season by himself. That's right, ladies and gents; one season (I forget which) was written entirely by JMS. Every episode. Plus his usual producer's duties. And even in the other seasons, he wrote most of the important episodes himself. It's no wonder he was getting burned out by season five. But it's a pity for the show.
                      My LiveJournal.

                      If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere.
                      -Frank A. Clark

                      An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
                      -Michel de Saint-Pierre

                      Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
                      -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

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                        #12
                        I love B5 its what first got me into sci-fi, but I think it would have been perfect if it had ended with season 4. there are only a hand full of eps in s5 that I can stand. The best seasons for me were s3 and most of 4 (eventhough it was a bit rushed)
                        And I think we need to thank JMS for creating the best villans ever with the Shadows (I just love them )

                        JANICE: Dr. Bob, you've given this hospital a bad name.
                        DR BOB: You're right. Fred is a terrible name for a hospital. I'll give it a better name. How 'bout Eunice?

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Beatrice
                          For anyone who doesn't know, here's why seasons 3 and 4 feel rushed, and why 5 is lame. The entire series was plotted out before JMS got the green light for any of it--start to finish, all five seasons; he got a tentative contract for all five seasons. Then, half-way through season three, he was told that the contract for season five was being trashed, and season four was it. So he tried to squeeze two and a half seasons worth of story into one and a half. Then, three quarters of the way through season four, he got word that the series was doing well enough that he'd get a season five after all. But he'd already speeded things up so he had no story thought out ahead of time, and was having to scramble to come up with new stuff all of a sudden, at a time when he was beginning to get burned out. He was far more intimitely involved with the series than most TV producers ever are; in fact, he is the only person ever to write an entire season by himself. That's right, ladies and gents; one season (I forget which) was written entirely by JMS. Every episode. Plus his usual producer's duties. And even in the other seasons, he wrote most of the important episodes himself. It's no wonder he was getting burned out by season five. But it's a pity for the show.
                          I knew that.
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                            #14
                            I never watched B5 until a couple of years ago.

                            I thought S1 was just mediocre. Then S2 got a LOT better. I thought S3 and S4 were brilliant. S5 was pretty lame although they pulled it together in the last 3 or 4 episodes.

                            What B5 did well was story arc. The advantage JMS had in mapping the whole thing out beforehand and presenting his story led to complex character arcs and foreshadowing throughout the series.

                            Watching S3 and S4 I remembered offhand comments in S1 that foreshadowed those events. That is remarkable in series television.

                            I wasn't crazy about the Sheridan/Delenn love story - thought their chemistry was pretty bad. But it was an important part of the story arc and worked for the show.

                            My favorite characters were G'Kar and Londo. I just loved their interaction and I thought the actors playing those characters were brilliant. Also liked Garibaldi a lot. And Ivanova was great. Overall I thought it was a pretty good cast.

                            Yes, the dialogue was stilted at times. But I thought some of the "speeches" JMS wrote for G'Kar and Londo were rather good.

                            I also thought the show made good use of music. They changed the opening theme every year and it seemed to reflect the mood of the season. Lighter in the beginning, then gradually darker.

                            I haven't seen any of the B5 movies. It's on my list.
                            Life is hard...and it's harder if you're stupid

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                              #15
                              Yeah, I wasn't into the Sheridan/Delenn ship either, not that I was an anti shipper it just wasn't a huge draw for me. I liked Marcus/Ivoniva though also Lyta/Zack (pre season 5).
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