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    #31
    Originally posted by jckfan55
    I thought the lighting in the cell definitely made Gould Sam more sinister. I also liked the scenes where Sam is behaving oddly after coming back--her chucking Jack on the shoulder cracks me up every time.
    I'm rather fond of that as well. I think what I also like about that scene is Daniel keeps asking what's going on when it's darn well clear what has happened.

    I also like where Janet mentions Cassie and Jolinar has no clue what to say for a second or two.


    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Crazedwraith
      Your mistaking, Your props getting confused with the Jaffa (who have symboites in the stomach, well not the stomach a pounch in the abdomen but you knew what I meant) or the taking of Sha're and others who had the traditional back of the neck thing.
      So, this was the only episode with Sam as Jolinar?

      Comment


        #33
        Jolinar did die at the end.. I think there might be some flashbacks in a couple other episodes.
        The opinions of KorbenDirewolf do not necessrily represent the opinions of other male U.S. residents between the ages of 18 and 25.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by KorbenDirewolf
          Jolinar did die at the end.. I think there might be some flashbacks in a couple other episodes.
          OK. Thanks, Korben.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Major Fischer
            Probably a silly nit pick, but I expect that Major Clanger will at least have sympathy... why? Because it's about headgear.
            Oh yes..MC is usually very eloquent on any topic concerning these matters.Mind you,I agree with yours and the lady's POV.Safety before vanity makes sense ,when under fire,IMO.

            Originally posted by Major Fischer
            What kind of a soldier in the middle of a battle, where they are under direct fire, deliberately takes off their kevlar helmet for seemingly no reason? Now, I know that Daniel and Jack weren't wearing theirs, but is that an explaination for why Carter seemed to think it was a good idea to take off hers when she went to try and take care of random man with the snake in his head?
            Good point.The medic Daniel called to a different casualty was wearing his helmet !
            The only reason I can offer, is that she took off the helmet to prepare herself for checking the guy's breathing ?
            (She leans over him ,either to listen for breathing, or to check if there was any draught,then gives him mouth to mouth....and the rest is too obvious to recap.)
            No idea if that's any help,but I tried !
            The place to "Gate" to during Outages for updates and info:

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              #36
              Awesome ep!!!

              Definitely one you can watch again!!!

              Sam (the little that we actually see of the real her) is great.

              AT's acting is superb, as she clearly distinguishes between Sam and Jolinar.

              I give it 8 out of 9 chevrons!
              sigpic
              Part 2 coming very soon!! (this is a fic btw, not the Fandemonium novel)

              Comment


                #37
                I LOVE THIS EPISODE.

                If I really wanted, I could leave it at that. I really do love this one. And this is gonna be a really loooooooooong posting, peoples, so bear with me.

                What was good:
                a. Amanda Tapping. This ep totally showed the extents of AT's ability; the shifting from Sam to Jolinar and vice versa reminded me a little of Gollum in LotR. Okay, so it wasn't quite as dramatic, but I like Jolinar more than Gollum anyway.
                b. The opener. Canst thou say, HOOKED?! It freaked me out! (Almost as much as TBFTGOG ) Seriously, a wonderful, catching opener.
                c. The awkwardness as Jolinar struggled to adjust. AT played the discomfort really well, almost to the point that it hurts to watch. Well, I think it hurts, anyway.
                d. Cassie. I love Cass! Not only was it lovely to see Katie Stuart back, it was also a terrific way to discover the goa'uld's presence.
                e. The scene in the 'gate room. Janet's tense comment that there was enough sedative in the dart to take down an elephant, and Jolinar's subsequent fury. The grenade was a nicely suspenseful touch, as was Jack's eerily calm negotiations. ("We're either all gonna live, or we're all gonna die. Right here.")(Don't take me for certain on that quote, either. One of these days I'll get around to checking on it)
                f. JOLINAR! I loved Jo; I was sooo mad when she died. But somehow, I never thought that the symbiote was male, and not just because it was AT talking (although that certainly influenced my perception). There was something about the syntax and syllable emphasis that made me think that there was a woman talking. Anyway, I loved Jo and her courage. I don't think that she meant to hurt Sam: desperate times oft result in desperate measures, or so I'm told. Jo did what she had to do under the circumstances.
                g. The ashrak. Very scary!
                k. Jo's death. No, I'm not saying that I'm glad that the symbiote died; quite the opposite, in fact. I just think that it was handled extremely well.
                l. The infirmary. I loved how Janet came riding in on the stretcher; it made me laugh, admittedly somewhat darkly. And then Sam's bit about how "it gaved its life for me...it saved me." I loved the "don't you understand?" look in her eyes.
                m. The aftermath. Cassie was a great idea; who better to come than a child? My personal opinion was that when they Cass in, Janet & Co. understood that Sam needed to see someone who would understand what had happened but wouldn't judge, wouldn't treat her like spun glass or try to make her feel that it wasn't her fault (which it wasn't, but I've found that people telling you that it wasn't because of you tends to have the opposite effect.) Sam just needed someone to be there and hold her hand.
                n. See, told you this'd be long. Guess what? It gets better!

                What wasn't good:
                a. Hello, they killed Jo!
                b. It might just be me, but I'm pretty sure that the laser webbing, for lack of a better term, disappears and reappears throughout various scenes. Anybody know?
                c. If the ashrak could simply wrench the cell bars out of the way, how come Jo couldn't? (I'm going to go through a little personal debate here): Jo probably knew that, unlike the Ashrak, she was unarmed and knew she wouldn't be able to get far. I'm also assuming that the ashrak was able to get in because of the literally superhuman strength derived from the goa'uld lodger upstairs.

                Whew! Almost done, just a little longer...

                I think that I like this episode for two reasons: Jolinar and the immense suspense (rhyme not intended) that came as a byproduct.

                And now I'm going to carry on on why I like Jolinar so much:
                She had an air of regality and a certain way of carrying herself. The way that she refused to give in even when she knew that death was coming. I loved her reasoning ("Already a goa'uld attack on Earth has been thwarted."/"Then a more powerful assault is being planned.") ("The Tok'ra are real, no matter what Apophis has told you."/"I have yet to meet one."/"You have now. I am Jolinar of Malk'sur.") Magnificent dialoguing by the writers!

                Anyway, this is why I like this episode. LONG LIVE JOLINAR OF MALK'SUR!<--(and yes, I know Jolinar's dead, but I'm going for sentiment here)
                Last edited by zats; 03 December 2004, 02:14 PM. Reason: Spelling? What, it's important? Why wasn't I informed? Did I miss that memo?

                Comment


                  #38
                  an interesting episode which did some nice set up for later arcs with the tokra, i like ep cos the tad more insight into the goa;ulds!
                  sigpic
                  Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by zats
                    I LOVE THIS EPISODE.

                    If I really wanted, I could leave it at that. I really do love this one. And this is gonna be a really loooooooooong posting, peoples, so bear with me.

                    What was good:
                    a. Amanda Tapping. This ep totally showed the extents of AT's ability; the shifting from Sam to Jolinar and vice versa reminded me a little of Gollum in LotR. Okay, so it wasn't quite as dramatic, but I like Jolinar more than Gollum anyway.
                    b. The opener. Canst thou say, HOOKED?! It freaked me out! (Almost as much as TBFTGOG ) Seriously, a wonderful, catching opener.
                    c. The awkwardness as Jolinar struggled to adjust. AT played the discomfort really well, almost to the point that it hurts to watch. Well, I think it hurts, anyway.
                    d. Cassie. I love Cass! Not only was it lovely to see Katie Stuart back, it was also a terrific way to discover the goa'uld's presence.
                    e. The scene in the 'gate room. Janet's tense comment that there was enough sedative in the dart to take down an elephant, and Jolinar's subsequent fury. The grenade was a nicely suspenseful touch, as was Jack's eerily calm negotiations. ("We're either all gonna live, or we're all gonna die. Right here.")(Don't take me for certain on that quote, either. One of these days I'll get around to checking on it)
                    f. JOLINAR! I loved Jo; I was sooo mad when she died. But somehow, I never thought that the symbiote was male, and not just because it was AT talking (although that certainly influenced my perception). There was something about the syntax and syllable emphasis that made me think that there was a woman talking. Anyway, I loved Jo and her courage. I don't think that she meant to hurt Sam: desperate times oft result in desperate measures, or so I'm told. Jo did what she had to do under the circumstances.
                    g. The ashrak. Very scary!
                    k. Jo's death. No, I'm not saying that I'm glad that the symbiote died; quite the opposite, in fact. I just think that it was handled extremely well.
                    l. The infirmary. I loved how Janet came riding in on the stretcher; it made me laugh, admittedly somewhat darkly. And then Sam's bit about how "it gaved its life for me...it saved me." I loved the "don't you understand?" look in her eyes.
                    m. The aftermath. Cassie was a great idea; who better to come than a child? My personal opinion was that when they Cass in, Janet & Co. understood that Sam needed to see someone who would understand what had happened but wouldn't judge, wouldn't treat her like spun glass or try to make her feel that it wasn't her fault (which it wasn't, but I've found that people telling you that it wasn't because of you tends to have the opposite effect.) Sam just needed someone to be there and hold her hand.
                    n. See, told you this'd be long. Guess what? It gets better!

                    What wasn't good:
                    a. Hello, they killed Jo!
                    b. It might just be me, but I'm pretty sure that the laser webbing, for lack of a better term, disappears and reappears throughout various scenes. Anybody know?
                    c. If the ashrak could simply wrench the cell bars out of the way, how come Jo couldn't? (I'm going to go through a little personal debate here): Jo probably knew that, unlike the Ashrak, she was unarmed and knew she wouldn't be able to get far. I'm also assuming that the ashrak was able to get in because of the literally superhuman strength derived from the goa'uld lodger upstairs.

                    Whew! Almost done, just a little longer...

                    I think that I like this episode for two reasons: Jolinar and the immense suspense (rhyme not intended) that came as a byproduct.

                    And now I'm going to carry on on why I like Jolinar so much:
                    She had an air of regality and a certain way of carrying herself. The way that she refused to give in even when she knew that death was coming. I loved her reasoning ("Already a goa'uld attack on Earth has been thwarted."/"Then a more powerful assault is being planned.") ("The Tok'ra are real, no matter what Apophis has told you."/"I have yet to meet one."/"You have now. I am Jolinar of Malk'sur.") Magnificent dialoguing by the writers!

                    Anyway, this is why I like this episode. LONG LIVE JOLINAR OF MALK'SUR!<--(and yes, I know Jolinar's dead, but I'm going for sentiment here)
                    Zat - I'm way behind on this Board ... but you have written a fine critique here of one of my favorite episodes too. Kudos to AT's superb acting talent in this one She can manage to convey so much through just a gesture, a facial expression, a tone of voice - and the writers provided an excellent arc for her. In fact, I think she should have been nominated for a Leo for this episode (glad to see that she did win two of them later for "Ascension" S5 and "Grace" S7).

                    Comment


                      #40
                      I have a couple of questions about this episode. I'm new around here so if this has been asked before....sorry

                      1.Jolinar is refered to as "Jolinar of Malkshur" in this and a few other episodes. What exactly is Malkshur suppose to be?

                      2.Teal'c said Jolinar once tried to overthrow a System Lord and was defeated when Apophis joined the battle. This doesn't exactly sound like how the Tok'Ra opperate. They infiltrate, spy, and sabatage. They avoid open conflict with Goa'uld (and constantly suggest that Earth do the same).

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Dead Jawa

                        2.Teal'c said Jolinar once tried to overthrow a System Lord and was defeated when Apophis joined the battle. This doesn't exactly sound like how the Tok'Ra opperate. They infiltrate, spy, and sabatage. They avoid open conflict with Goa'uld (and constantly suggest that Earth do the same).
                        I suspect they hadn't totally figured out what the Tok'ra would be when they did this episode.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          lol no, apophis joined the other goa'uld and the tok'ra was defeated
                          sigpic
                          Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Dead Jawa
                            1.Jolinar is refered to as "Jolinar of Malkshur" in this and a few other episodes. What exactly is Malkshur suppose to be?
                            It's never been clarified on the series. When SG-1 first meet the Tok'Ra, their local leader says that she is, "of Belote." My pet theory is that Tok'Ra who distinguish themselves thus are either, 1) not "of Egeria," making Malkshur and Belote Goa'uld queens(or, SLs?) of old(In Crossroads Anise said that a few Goa'uld joined the Tok'Ra movement, though none in recent centuries.) or, 2) they won some major, history making conflict and were awarded an honorific.

                            2.Teal'c said Jolinar once tried to overthrow a System Lord and was defeated when Apophis joined the battle. This doesn't exactly sound like how the Tok'Ra opperate. They infiltrate, spy, and sabatage. They avoid open conflict with Goa'uld (and constantly suggest that Earth do the same).
                            Remember, Teal'c had only heard rumors of her and the Tok'Ra. Perhaps the story of Jolinar's defeat was handed down to the Jaffa from generation to generation. Jolinar might have engaged Apophis in battle centuries or even millenia ago, when there would have been many more Tok'Ra with the resources to do open battle with the Goa'uld. Perhaps it was this very defeat that forced the Tok'Ra to use covert tactics.
                            Gracie

                            A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
                            "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
                            One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
                            resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
                            confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
                            A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
                            The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."


                            Comment


                              #44
                              So I watched this episode the other day, and this occurred to me.

                              The Tok'ra always say (usually very loudly) that they don't take unwilling hosts. Yet the first time we see them, it's Jolinar taking Sam as a host without her consent. It really bugged me.

                              Here's my thought: what do you think the chances are that Jolinar had ever encountered mouth-to-mouth resuscitation before? Probably not good. It was only developed in the last century here on earth; while it might have been developed independantly on other worlds, I'd say that there's still a very good chance she'd never encountered it, before. And the Tok'ra take hosts by entering through their mouth.

                              So. Jo's been on the run for some time, and is under direct assault as we speak. Her host is dying, there's nothing she can do for him. Suddenly, a completely unknown person has her mouth, open, over Jo's host's mouth, exactly if she were offering to be the next host. Jo doesn't wait for a second invitation; she takes the host ... only to discover with some shock that the new host was not in fact offering to be a host, and (assuming that Jo's a Goa'uld) is quite panicked. Jo needs a host, or she'll die; under the chaos of the attack, she doesn't have time to stop and think or talk with her new host before O'Neill drags her back through the stargate.

                              Here she is, on another planet, with an unwilling host and people who will never for a second believe that she is not a Goa'uld. But her host had plans to go through the stargate again soon--having already taken an unwilling host, is it that much worse to wait a day or so, slip away from the group, and head back to the Tok'ra base where they will at least have a symbiote pool ready for her so she can leave the unwilling host and be safe? No. So she stays. And then she's discovered, and the Ashrak comes, and that's that.
                              My LiveJournal.

                              If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere.
                              -Frank A. Clark

                              An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
                              -Michel de Saint-Pierre

                              Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
                              -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Beatrice

                                Here's my thought: what do you think the chances are that Jolinar had ever encountered mouth-to-mouth resuscitation before?
                                See my fanfic:

                                http://sg1-heliopolis.com/archive/56/promise.html
                                Gracie

                                A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
                                "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
                                One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
                                resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
                                confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
                                A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
                                The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."


                                Comment

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