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  1. #41
    Major General jckfan55's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Jawa

    2.Teal'c said Jolinar once tried to overthrow a System Lord and was defeated when Apophis joined the battle. This doesn't exactly sound like how the Tok'Ra opperate. They infiltrate, spy, and sabatage. They avoid open conflict with Goa'uld (and constantly suggest that Earth do the same).
    I suspect they hadn't totally figured out what the Tok'ra would be when they did this episode.

  2. #42
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    lol no, apophis joined the other goa'uld and the tok'ra was defeated

    Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

  3. #43
    Captain Tok'Ra Hostess's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Jawa
    1.Jolinar is refered to as "Jolinar of Malkshur" in this and a few other episodes. What exactly is Malkshur suppose to be?
    It's never been clarified on the series. When SG-1 first meet the Tok'Ra, their local leader says that she is, "of Belote." My pet theory is that Tok'Ra who distinguish themselves thus are either, 1) not "of Egeria," making Malkshur and Belote Goa'uld queens(or, SLs?) of old(In Crossroads Anise said that a few Goa'uld joined the Tok'Ra movement, though none in recent centuries.) or, 2) they won some major, history making conflict and were awarded an honorific.

    2.Teal'c said Jolinar once tried to overthrow a System Lord and was defeated when Apophis joined the battle. This doesn't exactly sound like how the Tok'Ra opperate. They infiltrate, spy, and sabatage. They avoid open conflict with Goa'uld (and constantly suggest that Earth do the same).
    Remember, Teal'c had only heard rumors of her and the Tok'Ra. Perhaps the story of Jolinar's defeat was handed down to the Jaffa from generation to generation. Jolinar might have engaged Apophis in battle centuries or even millenia ago, when there would have been many more Tok'Ra with the resources to do open battle with the Goa'uld. Perhaps it was this very defeat that forced the Tok'Ra to use covert tactics.
    Gracie

    A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
    "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
    One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
    resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
    confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
    A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
    The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."



  4. #44
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    So I watched this episode the other day, and this occurred to me.

    The Tok'ra always say (usually very loudly) that they don't take unwilling hosts. Yet the first time we see them, it's Jolinar taking Sam as a host without her consent. It really bugged me.

    Here's my thought: what do you think the chances are that Jolinar had ever encountered mouth-to-mouth resuscitation before? Probably not good. It was only developed in the last century here on earth; while it might have been developed independantly on other worlds, I'd say that there's still a very good chance she'd never encountered it, before. And the Tok'ra take hosts by entering through their mouth.

    So. Jo's been on the run for some time, and is under direct assault as we speak. Her host is dying, there's nothing she can do for him. Suddenly, a completely unknown person has her mouth, open, over Jo's host's mouth, exactly if she were offering to be the next host. Jo doesn't wait for a second invitation; she takes the host ... only to discover with some shock that the new host was not in fact offering to be a host, and (assuming that Jo's a Goa'uld) is quite panicked. Jo needs a host, or she'll die; under the chaos of the attack, she doesn't have time to stop and think or talk with her new host before O'Neill drags her back through the stargate.

    Here she is, on another planet, with an unwilling host and people who will never for a second believe that she is not a Goa'uld. But her host had plans to go through the stargate again soon--having already taken an unwilling host, is it that much worse to wait a day or so, slip away from the group, and head back to the Tok'ra base where they will at least have a symbiote pool ready for her so she can leave the unwilling host and be safe? No. So she stays. And then she's discovered, and the Ashrak comes, and that's that.
    My LiveJournal.

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  5. #45
    Captain Tok'Ra Hostess's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice

    Here's my thought: what do you think the chances are that Jolinar had ever encountered mouth-to-mouth resuscitation before?
    See my fanfic:

    http://sg1-heliopolis.com/archive/56/promise.html
    Gracie

    A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
    "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
    One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
    resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
    confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
    A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
    The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."



  6. #46
    You call that a glowstick?
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    Skydiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    or mine are an offshoot of that
    http://www.geocities.com/sky_diver119/aumain.htm

    Changing Fate, Letting go of the Past

    They're along the line of 'what if jols had stayed in sam'

    I agree with you about the cpr. Sam's possession was probably just a case of misunderstanding.

    I've always interpreted the 'of malkshur' or 'of beloit' to be 'i'm jolinar from the planet of malkshur'

    That's one way people used to come up with last names way back when. sometimes it was because of thier trade. Hence Cooper, Porter, Carter.
    Other times it's 'this is mark, steve's son.....so his name is mark steveson'

    Other times, it's about where you're from

    Any theory could work. It's possible that Jolinar was the child of Malkshur as well

  7. #47
    Probie Dead Jawa's Avatar
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    Post Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tok'Ra Hostess
    It's never been clarified on the series. When SG-1 first meet the Tok'Ra, their local leader says that she is, "of Belote." My pet theory is that Tok'Ra who distinguish themselves thus are either, 1) not "of Egeria," making Malkshur and Belote Goa'uld queens(or, SLs?) of old(In Crossroads Anise said that a few Goa'uld joined the Tok'Ra movement, though none in recent centuries.) or, 2) they won some major, history making conflict and were awarded an honorific.
    That makes since. I had forgot about Anise's comment in "Crossroads". She may well have been a defected Goa'uld. After all she did seem a little more arogant than the other Tok'Ra and it would also explane why she was so well known among the Jaffa. A Goa'uld who fought her own kind for a reason other than personal gain would be the stuff of legend.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tok'Ra Hostess
    Remember, Teal'c had only heard rumors of her and the Tok'Ra. Perhaps the story of Jolinar's defeat was handed down to the Jaffa from generation to generation. Jolinar might have engaged Apophis in battle centuries or even millenia ago, when there would have been many more Tok'Ra with the resources to do open battle with the Goa'uld. Perhaps it was this very defeat that forced the Tok'Ra to use covert tactics.
    That's also possible. It does seem rather stupid to believe that a group like the Tok'Ra wouldn't have changed there tactics in the countless centuries that they've been fighting the Goa'uld.

    Thanks

  8. #48
    Airman
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    Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Fabtabulous.
    Loved it!
    Loved AT's performance. One of her best ever. 10/10
    "Dad, what's a muppet?"-Lisa
    "Well it's not quite a mop, and it's quite a puppet
    but maaan. So does that answer your question? I
    don't know."-Homer

  9. #49
    Captain Tok'Ra Hostess's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Jawa
    A Goa'uld who fought her own kind for a reason other than personal gain would be the stuff of legend.

    <snip>....
    It does seem rather stupid to believe that a group like the Tok'Ra wouldn't have changed there tactics in the countless centuries that they've been fighting the Goa'uld.
    To borrow from Daniel in Line of Duty: I think we have to assume the (Tok'Ra) are more complex as a society than we're giving them credit for.
    Gracie

    A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
    "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
    One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
    resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
    confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
    A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
    The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."



  10. #50
    Colonel ShimmeringStar's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    I liked the show, especially AT's acting in it and the overall story arc. I also liked the Teal’c/Jack scene where Jack was struggling with himself on how he was going to approach his conversation with Sam/Jolinar; he was having issues about seeing Sam as a host and not as his friend.
    Convention Pix Shore Leave ('06 to '09), AT2, AT3, & AT4 ('06, '08, & '09), and Vancouver ('07)
    My SG fanfic! ..Click Here.

  11. #51
    First Lieutenant SmartFox's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    I really like this ep: great acting by everyone especially AT, also this is the beginning of what i think as a great story ark. I love all the eps with the Tok'ra in them, its an interaction between 2 races that is one of the most realistic in the whole series. "You scratch my back we scrath your back". Thats exactly how the world acts now and would if we met some aliens from another planet.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by majorsal
    I remember from way back that there was a behind the scenes thing that Showtime did for Stargate between seasons 1 and 2. In it, Amanda said (concerning what was coming up for Sam in season two) something like, 'And something happens to Sam that's really big. *she stares into the camera* 'Reeeally big'. That last part, with her saying 'really big' was so cute, because of the look on Amanda's face and the way she said that phrase. I can't remember exactly how she stated the first sentence, but the 'really big' thing I remember well. I wish I could find that segment (somewhere on the net) to keep. Sally

    Quote Originally Posted by astrogeologist
    In The Line of Duty Sam getting Goa'ulded! Wow! What a scene when her eyes glowed at the beginning! And the ramifications for her character development after that... just wonderful.

    Cassie senses the naquadah in Jolinar.

    Jolinar tries to escape and Jack injects her with a sedative that doesn't even seem to slow her down.
    Janet says that it was enough to knock down 'an elephant'.

    Then one of the SFs shoots Jolinar in the leg with a tranquilizing dart... and Jack knocks the gun out of her hands while she is distracted with the dart. She whallops Jack across the room... and then pulls out a grenade...
    Quote Originally Posted by ChopinGal
    ITLOD which is such a showcase for AT's talent

    Jolinar gives Sam control and Sam says that the Goa'uld is telling the truth.

    Sam pleads with Jack not to leave her alone in the brig with a Goa'uld in her.

    Jack leaves and Jolinar retakes contol, saying "What will it take?" to the now empty cell.

    The ashrak finds Jolinar.

    After the ashrak leaves, Janet and Jack rush Sam to the infirmary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kes
    My favorite "Sam" moments....In the Line of Duty. Maybe Sam's best episode (to me). I loved the Jolinar arc and thought it introduced a whole new layer to Sam's character. The scene at the end - when she's laying in bed after Jolinar has died to save her. Just fabulous work from AT.
    Quote Originally Posted by deepspace
    In the Line of Duty, cause it is one of my favourite episodes ever, let alone my favourite ep for season2. I have to say AT’s acting for this one was so good, I think even better than that for RC, and that is brilliant! My favourite scene in it though is at the very end, when she tells them that it gave up it’s life to save her. I remember when I watched that for the first time, it was just so amazing for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by tara3583
    I voted for "In the Line of Duty" as first choice. Lots of character development for Sam in this one, Amanda showed Jolinaar as haulty aloof but not brutal, she came across as a desperite freedom fighter that was sorry that she had to take Sam along with her.

    The sceenes in the infirmary when Sam came round and said that Jolinar had gave her life for her was very intense and tptb did good imho
    in following that up with Cassie gently touching her arm and forcing Sam to turn round and look at her, Sam looked so lost and so devestated that it was heartbreaking to watch.
    Quote Originally Posted by lucylou
    For the second season poll I picked In The Line of Duty as my favourite episode. I chose this because I thought Amandas portrayl of Jolinar was amazing. The bit which clinched it for me was, like someone else here has mentioned, the part where Sam comes round in the infirmary and tells Jack that the symbiote gave its life so she could live. I just loved how Amanda delivered the line and the emotion in her eyes and on her face was heartbreaking. I loved the Infirmary scene at the end too with Cassie. Amanda didn't have to say anything but you could just feel the turmoil that Sam was going through as she dealt with everything that had happened to her. When actors dont need to say a word but so much is still conveyed to the audience that's an amazing display of talent and Amanda really shone in this episode. Lucy
    Quote Originally Posted by ChopinGal
    I loved In the Line of Duty and the whole Tok'ra arc which brought Jacob in as her dad ... wish we could have more of that again. Sigh!

  13. #53
    Second Lieutenant PugGate's Avatar
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    Zat Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Why didn't Jolinar fight the ashrak? She just stood their like she didn't care that she was about to die.

    And Sam knew that Cassie had naquada in her blood, so wouldn't Jolinar have avoided her?
    Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini => three of the world's worst dictators.

    Also failed artist, failed priest, and failed grade-school teacher.

    What we should learn: Don't trust artists, be wary of priests, and fear your teachers!

  14. #54
    Captain Tok'Ra Hostess's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by PugGate
    Why didn't Jolinar fight the ashrak? She just stood their like she didn't care that she was about to die.

    And Sam knew that Cassie had naquada in her blood, so wouldn't Jolinar have avoided her?
    Given what we learn in season eight about what happens when a symbiote makes the effort to die without killing the host, I think Jolinar was probably too weak to do anything - not that her options were many, faced as she was with an armed, highly trained assassin.

    As to Cassie, good question.

    Perhaps since Sam herself didn't know that Cassie would be sensitive to the naq in a Goa'uld's system, she simply didn't have that thought in her mind.

    Makes you wonder just how hard a Goa'uld would have to dig to get secrets from a strong mind; Shar'e was able to blind her Goa'uld from seeing SG-1 at the exit scene in Secrets, and Kinthia was able to hide her true intentions from her demon when she lured her to Cimmeria(Thor's Hammer).

    Sam would've been fighting Jolinar, but also, Jolinar might have kept her brain scans surface only, to minimize the damage she'd already caused by blending with an unwilling host.
    Gracie

    A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
    "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
    One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
    resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
    confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
    A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
    The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."



  15. #55
    First Lieutenant Chaka's_Mum's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    I agree that this was a stunning episode. AT's acting was fantastic (but then, when isn't it?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice
    Here's my thought: what do you think the chances are that Jolinar had ever encountered mouth-to-mouth resuscitation before? Probably not good. It was only developed in the last century here on earth; while it might have been developed independantly on other worlds, I'd say that there's still a very good chance she'd never encountered it, before. And the Tok'ra take hosts by entering through their mouth.

    So. Jo's been on the run for some time, and is under direct assault as we speak. Her host is dying, there's nothing she can do for him. Suddenly, a completely unknown person has her mouth, open, over Jo's host's mouth, exactly if she were offering to be the next host. Jo doesn't wait for a second invitation; she takes the host ... only to discover with some shock that the new host was not in fact offering to be a host, and (assuming that Jo's a Goa'uld) is quite panicked. Jo needs a host, or she'll die; under the chaos of the attack, she doesn't have time to stop and think or talk with her new host before O'Neill drags her back through the stargate.
    That's something that's always bothered me, too; though I love the shock of the moment when we all think 'Oh my sausages! Sam's been taken as a host by a Goa'uld!'. What we later learn about the Tok'ra seems to utterly contradict Jolinar's behaviour. It's reasonable to assume that Jolinar is left with no alternative - but that in itself doesn't explain why she's done something that the Tok'ra recoil from. The suggestion that there's a misconception about Sam's willingness to be a host explains that nagging discrepancy. I like it.

    One other nitpick (and a silly, continuity one at that). I note that, after interviewing Jolinar in her cell, Teal'c was so stunned at the sight of a Tok'ra that when he put his swipe card through the reader to exit the brig, he put the card through upside down (it's really obvious too - the black strip is still facing outwards). Fortunately, they seem to have very intelligent doors at the SGC, because the door realised he was distracted, and that it was Teal'c - so it opened anyway...

  16. #56
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka's_Mum
    I agree that this was a stunning episode. AT's acting was fantastic (but then, when isn't it?).



    That's something that's always bothered me, too; though I love the shock of the moment when we all think 'Oh my sausages! Sam's been taken as a host by a Goa'uld!'. What we later learn about the Tok'ra seems to utterly contradict Jolinar's behaviour. It's reasonable to assume that Jolinar is left with no alternative - but that in itself doesn't explain why she's done something that the Tok'ra recoil from. The suggestion that there's a misconception about Sam's willingness to be a host explains that nagging discrepancy. I like it.

    One other nitpick (and a silly, continuity one at that). I note that, after interviewing Jolinar in her cell, Teal'c was so stunned at the sight of a Tok'ra that when he put his swipe card through the reader to exit the brig, he put the card through upside down (it's really obvious too - the black strip is still facing outwards). Fortunately, they seem to have very intelligent doors at the SGC, because the door realised he was distracted, and that it was Teal'c - so it opened anyway...
    While that is the most famous instance in which the card was backwards ... it's not the only one. I'll leave the fun of finding them all to you.
    My LiveJournal.

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    Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
    -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

  17. #57
    First Lieutenant Chaka's_Mum's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice
    While that is the most famous instance in which the card was backwards ... it's not the only one
    That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm surprised I actually spotted that one - probably only because you really couldn't miss it.

    Normally, that sort of thing has to be VERY OBVIOUS INDEED for me to spot it. I'm not the world's best spotter of nit-picks.

    Which means that finding the others is going to require the careful watching of lots and lots episodes over and over again...

    Good.

  18. #58
    Captain Beatrice Otter's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka's_Mum
    That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I'm surprised I actually spotted that one - probably only because you really couldn't miss it.

    Normally, that sort of thing has to be VERY OBVIOUS INDEED for me to spot it. I'm not the world's best spotter of nit-picks.

    Which means that finding the others is going to require the careful watching of lots and lots episodes over and over again...

    Good.
    Well, I don't know if they're getting more careless or I'm getting more observant (or both), but they seem to do it more these days than they used to.
    My LiveJournal.

    If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere.
    -Frank A. Clark

    An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
    -Michel de Saint-Pierre

    Now, there's this about cynicism. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of **** for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace.
    -Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Borders of Infinity"

  19. #59
    First Lieutenant Chaka's_Mum's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice
    Well, I don't know if they're getting more careless or I'm getting more observant (or both), but they seem to do it more these days than they used to.

    Either that or the swipe-card readers are telepathic...

  20. #60
    Robin Masters shipper hannah's Avatar
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    Default Re: In the Line of Duty (202)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka's_Mum
    Either that or the swipe-card readers are telepathic...
    in which case, why bother with the cards in the first place?

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