Fic help.

[BruTak]

What are the proper words of command for forming a ceremonial arch and drawing swords at an officer's wedding? Anyone have any idea?

[CeeKay Sheppard]

Can anybody tell me how gunshot wounds were treated during WWII? Just to put it into context:

•Sheppard's team is on a planet at a WWII technological level.
•The wound is life-threatening – nicked the subclavian artery.
•The battle is over. The wound was caused by one of the last shots fired.
•A doctor (native to the planet) is at the scene.
•The wounded Lantian is left behind by the rest of the team.

This is the opening scene of a fic I'm writing, and I just need to know what I'm talking about. Thanks!

[Skydiver]

he'd probably be dead.

i doubt that vascular surgery, especially in a battle field situation, would be able to deal with an arterial injury given 1950's level of tech

maybe, just maybe, if carson was there and knew what to do

i'm no military historian but an artery injury, especially in a place that can't be tournaqueted off, would not end well

even if shep or the other doctor patched him up, i would think shep would be pretty immobile for a while. I don't think he could risk doing anything too strenuous that might tear the artery open again

[CeeKay Sheppard]

he'd probably be dead.

i doubt that vascular surgery, especially in a battle field situation, would be able to deal with an arterial injury given 1950's level of tech

maybe, just maybe, if carson was there and knew what to do

i'm no military historian but an artery injury, especially in a place that can't be tournaqueted off, would not end well

even if shep or the other doctor patched him up, i would think shep would be pretty immobile for a while. I don't think he could risk doing anything too strenuous that might tear the artery open again

Drat. Okay, time to go rethink the scene.

BTW, just out of curiosity – how did you know it was Sheppard? I said "the wounded Lantian" specifically to avoid giving it away to any Shep Whumpers who might lurk here. Then again, it's now occurring to me that they know I'm writing a whump fic... I'm just wondering how you knew.

Edit: Oh, how rude of me. Thanks for the help!

[Skydiver]

LOL

i'm sorry. i just guessed. do you want me to go back and edit my post?

you know, he could still be shot and it could still be serious without involving an artery. subclavian artery, so you're aiming for a shoulder wound. Well bullets can bounce off the scapula and end up back in the chest. It can be pressing against the heart, creating an issue that needs to be dealt with (although chest surgery would be a serious issue as well)

what if, instead of the artery, it hits a vein? lower pressure, it's more forgiving but can still be serious.

even with that though, i wouldn't imagine your person would be too mobile

simply removing the bullet and dealing with the muscular damage and lack of movement could incapicitate your person. i would imagine witha shot in the shoulder that their arm is pretty much useless. not to mention them not moving well and even breathing would hurt. even if the ribs aren't involved, you still use most of your chest muscles to breathe

and there is that pesky infection issue as well. antibiotics weren't widely used until WWII adn most folks died of infection rather than their wound.

[CeeKay Sheppard]

LOL

i'm sorry. i just guessed. do you want me to go back and edit my post?

Nah... no biggie. I only ever write about Sheppard, anyway. He's just so... whumpable.

you know, he could still be shot and it could still be serious without involving an artery. subclavian artery, so you're aiming for a shoulder wound. Well bullets can bounce off the scapula and end up back in the chest. It can be pressing against the heart, creating an issue that needs to be dealt with (although chest surgery would be a serious issue as well)

what if, instead of the artery, it hits a vein? lower pressure, it's more forgiving but can still be serious.

even with that though, i wouldn't imagine your person would be too mobile

simply removing the bullet and dealing with the muscular damage and lack of movement could incapicitate your person. i would imagine witha shot in the shoulder that their arm is pretty much useless. not to mention them not moving well and even breathing would hurt. even if the ribs aren't involved, you still use most of your chest muscles to breathe

and there is that pesky infection issue as well. antibiotics weren't widely used until WWII adn most folks died of infection rather than their wound.

Oh, wow... most of this is pretty much news to me. You see, this is the same issue I'm having with my first SGA fic, "Plague." I know a little about anatomy, but absolutely nothing about medicine, which makes writing convincing whump quite difficult. (Unfortunately, that didn't stop me then... )

Hey, what if the bullet encountered the scapula from behind (he got shot in the back)? Would it bounce off? Or would it embed itself in the bone? ...Or break it? I suppose it would depend somewhat on the range – and whether or not those military vests are bulletproof, which I somehow doubt (IIRC,

Spoiler:

the monster in "Epiphany" claws right through it.

But I could be wrong). The "life-threatening" bit isn't really essential to the story – he just has to get shot, and it has to be bad (without being permanently crippling). In fact, I was only thinking shoulder wound because I didn't want him dead.

Oh, brainstorm! The tech level of the planet could be fairly primitive, and the weapon could be an arrow instead of a bullet. That, I think, I can deal with. Native herbal remedies can be very effective (especially in sci-fi )...

Yeah... I don't want to give it all away, but considering what you've told me, I think I have this pretty well under control now. Thanks!

[Skydiver]

lol, yes he is whumpable

if you're interested, here's a good group for research

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fanfic_med/

generally speaking, if you want your character to survive, don't let them have an arterial injury unless they're in the sgc. In the case of the aorta (main chest artery off the heart), pulmonary (the artery to the lung), femoral (leg artery) or brachial artery (in the arms) - and the ever popular carotid (neck) arteries, if any of those are damaged/severed, your character has about 4-8 minutes before they bleed to death

[CeeKay Sheppard]

lol, yes he is whumpable

if you're interested, here's a good group for research

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fanfic_med/

generally speaking, if you want your character to survive, don't let them have an arterial injury unless they're in the sgc. In the case of the aorta (main chest artery off the heart), pulmonary (the artery to the lung), femoral (leg artery) or brachial artery (in the arms) - and the ever popular carotid (neck) arteries, if any of those are damaged/severed, your character has about 4-8 minutes before they bleed to death

Thank you!

[Mr Prophet]

Oh, wow... most of this is pretty much news to me. You see, this is the same issue I'm having with my first SGA fic, "Plague." I know a little about anatomy, but absolutely nothing about medicine, which makes writing convincing whump quite difficult. (Unfortunately, that didn't stop me then... )

If I may suggest, pain and simile? Just imagine that you have been shot in the shoulder; would you know that it had barely touched the subclavian artery but glanced off into the chest cavity? Or would you just know that it hurt like anything?

Injuries actually don't always feel like you'd expect. Have you ever heard a police officer - or anyone else for that matter - describe getting stabbed? If they didn't realise the other guy had a knife, they usually say that they were initially surprised at how hard they had been punched. Even a veteran whumpee like Sheppard isn't going to be able to identify his injury in anatomical detail while he lies there bleeding out, so unless Beckett is there there's not much call for detail.

Vagueness is a happier writing partner than inaccuracy. Words I try to live by.

Would it bounce off? Or would it embed itself in the bone? ...Or break it?

Is the cat dead or alive? Bullets and bodies do funny things sometimes; there are people who survive being shot in the head with almost no ill-effects.

I suppose it would depend somewhat on the range – and whether or not those military vests are bulletproof, which I somehow doubt (IIRC,

Spoiler:

the monster in "Epiphany" claws right through it.

But I could be wrong).

Remember, Kevlar bullet-proof vests are designed to spread the impact of an attack along the fibres of the weave; they are pretty much useless against anything that puts all the force on a small point, such as a sharp blade or a high-velocity rifle round, and they cut pretty easily. To give a little extra protection, they put trauma plates in - ceramic pads designed to shatter when a high-velocity slug hts them, dissipating the force so that the kevlar can absorb it, but lightweight body armour that also stops knives is something that the Met worked on for years.

Note, then, that an arrow would slice clean through kevlar.

Also, bullet-proof is a misnomer; they're mostly designed to take small-arms fire at long range, ricochets and light shrapnel. Moreover, even if it does stop a bullet, the wearer is likely to have a huge bruise and possibly even broken bones; just not a messy bullet hole. The only real protection from a close-range shot with a modern, military firearm is to not be hit.

[Skydiver]

oh yeah. that's the biggest 'mistake' with a bullet 'proof' vest

the shot person doesn't just jump up and is fine. s/he is gonna have one hell of a bruise from all that impact. and might even have some soft tissue injuries, bruised ribs, broken ribs, etc.

as to getting shot, never happened to me so i can't share, but any injury doesn't hurt at first. there are a few seconds where it's painless. the nerves are too shocked to realize something has happened.

then it hurts.

another thing, internal bleeding hurts. the body doesn't like loose blood and you will have this achy burning feeling

so, imagine someone getting shot

they'll feel the impact. get knocked over. wonder why they're knocked over. they might feel this watery warmth of the blood before it hits them that it IS blood.

tehn it'll start to hurt. niggling at first, then sharper

how they handle it is up to thier tolerance for pain and how bad it is. some have a high pain tolerance and can function. others just cant' handle it and pass out

[Mr Prophet]

I really have no idea how realistic it was, but one of my better character-gets-shot scenes - artistically - had Ferretti feeling all light-headed and achey and wondering who the man was whom people were shouting was down, and only slowly realising that it was him.

[CeeKay Sheppard]

Hey, thanks for all the insights! That will definitely be useful in the future – the fic I'm working on now kind of evolved into a journal entry, so Sheppard is looking back on the incident about two weeks later. He saw it coming, too (jumped into the arrow's path to save a little girl), so that would have an effect on the narration as well. But now I have a much better idea of what I'm doing, so thank you both very much!

[BruTak]

Okay, any history buffs out there? Are there any known cases of British military units going "missing", just vanishing into thin air?

I seem to recall there was one during the First World War, but I'm kind of aiming for something around the early to mid 1800's mark.
I've kind of got a notion of and SG team finding the descendants of some Riflemen who were abducted by a Goa'uld - maybe I've just seen "The Man Who Would Be King" once too often...

[SilverRider]

I'm doing a Shep/Carson/Radek whumping fic but I dunno where to start

Anyone wanna help?

[Skydiver]

Okay, any history buffs out there? Are there any known cases of British military units going "missing", just vanishing into thin air?

I seem to recall there was one during the First World War, but I'm kind of aiming for something around the early to mid 1800's mark.
I've kind of got a notion of and SG team finding the descendants of some Riflemen who were abducted by a Goa'uld - maybe I've just seen "The Man Who Would Be King" once too often...

well, given the near total lack of communications in that time period, i'd say y you'd have no issue just making one up