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What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

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    #76
    Well we know that the ancients explored planets through the gate, because they have the puddle jumpers, they would have also walked around on foot, having newly evolving races all around them, they would not be able to know if the races were violent, or if there were people that were violent that might try to hurt them. If they didn't take some method of defending themselves, than there was a good chance that they could get hurt by people, not just the wraith.

    Yes, I believe that they would have had enough people to form an army, the atlantis expedtion only tok a hundred maybe two hundred people, but I believe that the city would be big enough to hold at least a million. Then the ancients would have also have had children.

    When it comes down to it, if someone was in the situation that the ancients were in and didn't have some method of personal defence, it would be extremly irresponsible, it just doesn't seem like something that the ancients would do.

    Owen Macri

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      #77
      Here is an Ancient personal weapon for you (and it is blue...ish):

      Warning Spoiler form Season 9
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      Jackson: Oh Please! Teal’c’s like one of the deepest people I know. He’s so deep. Come on! Tell em how deep you are. You’ll be lucky if you understand this.
      Teal’c: My depth is immaterial to this conversation.
      Jackson: (Excited) Oh!! See?
      O’Neill: No more beer for you.


      "Nu ani Anquietas"
      We are the Ancients

      Comment


        #78
        I can't see a picture or a link, but I Believe I know what you are reffering to.

        Owen Macri

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by Owen Macri
          I can't see a picture or a link, but I Believe I know what you are reffering to.

          Owen Macri
          Ok, than here is a link for those who want to see the pic but can't see the one I posted: http://www.sg-atlantis.info/stargate...fel9/902_4.jpg
          Jackson: Oh Please! Teal’c’s like one of the deepest people I know. He’s so deep. Come on! Tell em how deep you are. You’ll be lucky if you understand this.
          Teal’c: My depth is immaterial to this conversation.
          Jackson: (Excited) Oh!! See?
          O’Neill: No more beer for you.


          "Nu ani Anquietas"
          We are the Ancients

          Comment


            #80
            Yes that one worked, thank you. That is what I thought you were talking about.

            Owen Macri

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Owen Macri
              the asgard should alter themselves geneticaly so that they can asexualy reproduce, then we get to see an asgard split in half into two asgards, that would be pretty cool.

              Owen Macri
              Cloning IS asexual reproduction...

              Originally posted by Owen Macri
              It would be incredibly naive for the ancients to not, have some kind of hand gun. Or at least make one when the Wraith appeared.
              They weren't fighting ground battles with the Wraith. The ancients didn't have the numbers for that. The battles they were fighting were more like orbital bombardments and ship to ship battles, in which case hand weapons are totally useless.

              Originally posted by Owen Macri
              When it comes down to it, if someone was in the situation that the ancients were in and didn't have some method of personal defence, it would be extremly irresponsible, it just doesn't seem like something that the ancients would do.
              Personal defense... They were designing personal shields, which was shown in the episode Hide and Seek. As I said before, if you have the ultimate defense, you don't need an offense at all.

              The ancients didn't need personal weapons. Their shield protected them from ships shooting at them, and their personal shield would have protected them from people shooting at them, they just didn't have enough time to put them into production apparently.
              I'd like to know why Rodney isn't wearing that shield when he goes on missions. Seems like it'd give him a huge advantage if they ran into resistance... Doh, I suppose that is why he doesn't use it; it'd make everything too easy for them.
              Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

              1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

              Comment


                #82
                I meant asexual reproduction in the sense that the lifeform splits itself in half to become two lifeforms, I should have been more specific. Technically cloning in the regard that the asgard do it, cloning the body and not the mind, and transfering the mind into the second body, is not reproduction, a body is created but there it is not a sentient being until the asgard conciousnous is transfered into it. The asgard body that the mind departs is failing anyways so there is no use for it as a being, it dosen't have a consciousnous anyways. The proces of reproduction implies that a preditermined amount of creatures will grow in numbers, even single celled organsims grow in numbers, they reproduce, the asgards population doesn't grow, it stays the same, and probably decreases.

                As for your second point they wern't fighting ground battles but they were exploring planets, so there would be the need for someway of defending yourself.

                As for the shield, it did not seem like this was a piece of technology that the ancients got to use, if the wraith attacked them on another planet an all they had was a way of not getting hit by their stunners. What are they supposed to do, walk to the gate or puddle jumper while under constant fire from the wraith, even with the shields the wraith could still capture them.

                I hold up my original point that for the ancients to not use some type of personal weapon because they didn't need it, would be incredibly naive, the ancients don't come across as naive.

                Owen Macri

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Owen Macri
                  I meant asexual reproduction in the sense that the lifeform splits itself in half to become two lifeforms, I should have been more specific.
                  That's called budding .

                  Originally posted by Owen Macri
                  Technically cloning in the regard that the asgard do it, cloning the body and not the mind, and transfering the mind into the second body, is not reproduction, a body is created but there it is not a sentient being until the asgard conciousnous is transfered into it.
                  You mean that's not cloning to you. Technically, it is cloning.

                  Originally posted by Owen Macri
                  The asgard body that the mind departs is failing anyways so there is no use for it as a being, it dosen't have a consciousnous anyways. The proces of reproduction implies that a preditermined amount of creatures will grow in numbers, even single celled organsims grow in numbers, they reproduce, the asgards population doesn't grow, it stays the same, and probably decreases.
                  Population growth and reproduction is totally different. For example, if each mother-father pair only had two offspring, there is only short term growth, because the parents eventually die.

                  Originally posted by Owen Macri
                  As for your second point they wern't fighting ground battles but they were exploring planets, so there would be the need for someway of defending yourself.
                  They had the "life signs detector" which would tell them if a lifeform was coming their way. Seeing them before they see you is about as good a survival tactic as you can get.

                  Originally posted by Owen Macri
                  As for the shield, it did not seem like this was a piece of technology that the ancients got to use, if the wraith attacked them on another planet an all they had was a way of not getting hit by their stunners.
                  Or their Dart's weapons. Or their grenades. The shield was still in development though, or at least that's what the show would have us believe.

                  Originally posted by Owen Macri
                  I hold up my original point that for the ancients to not use some type of personal weapon because they didn't need it, would be incredibly naive, the ancients don't come across as naive.

                  Owen Macri
                  They really are naive. I mean, take this quote from Rising pt. I:
                  HOLOGRAM
                  In our over confidence, we were unprepared and outnumbered.
                  Over confident, unprepared, and outnumbered. They never expected that they'd have enemies, and that makes them naive.
                  Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

                  1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Jarnin
                    They had the "life signs detector" which would tell them if a lifeform was coming their way. Seeing them before they see you is about as good a survival tactic as you can get.


                    Or their Dart's weapons. Or their grenades. The shield was still in development though, or at least that's what the show would have us believe.


                    They really are naive. I mean, take this quote from Rising pt. I:
                    Over confident, unprepared, and outnumbered. They never expected that they'd have enemies, and that makes them naive.
                    First: the life signs detector does not(that we, or the Atlantis team) tell if the lifeform is friend or foe.

                    Two: we know of at least one handheld weapon(see my post on the other page) so they might have more.

                    Three: The point Owen Macri was making was just that; the shields could only do so much. Just because the Wraith cannot harm you if you have a personal shield they can still capture you and send you through the stargate to a space gate where you would die from a number of things.
                    Jackson: Oh Please! Teal’c’s like one of the deepest people I know. He’s so deep. Come on! Tell em how deep you are. You’ll be lucky if you understand this.
                    Teal’c: My depth is immaterial to this conversation.
                    Jackson: (Excited) Oh!! See?
                    O’Neill: No more beer for you.


                    "Nu ani Anquietas"
                    We are the Ancients

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Jarnin
                      That's called budding .


                      You mean that's not cloning to you. Technically, it is cloning.


                      Population growth and reproduction is totally different. For example, if each mother-father pair only had two offspring, there is only short term growth, because the parents eventually die.


                      They had the "life signs detector" which would tell them if a lifeform was coming their way. Seeing them before they see you is about as good a survival tactic as you can get.


                      Or their Dart's weapons. Or their grenades. The shield was still in development though, or at least that's what the show would have us believe.


                      They really are naive. I mean, take this quote from Rising pt. I:
                      Over confident, unprepared, and outnumbered. They never expected that they'd have enemies, and that makes them naive.
                      Thank you, I did not know that it was called budding, although now that sound familiar.

                      No I know it is cloning, it is not technically reprodution, and adressing your next point as well... I understand that completley and it is ture however in most cases reproduction does lead to some sort of growth in population, I know growth in population is not a constant even when there is reproduction, but reproduction implies that you are creating NEW life, with NEW minds, and NEW people. Even if parents only had two children each, there children are still new individuals even though the population wouldn't grow. The Asgard don't create new life, they copy the old life and transfer in thier conciousnous, so no new minds are created.

                      As for your next point about the life signs detector, yes the life signs detetctor could help them see where thier enemies are, but the wraith could still run in and grab them, even if they were protected against the Wraith ordinance. Also yes, Macilnar is correct, the life signs detector won't define if the lifeform is ancient or wraith, friend or foe?

                      As for your last point. Yes, I agree the ancients were naive in that aspect, they didn't think the wraith would grow powerful enough to chalenge them on a significant level, however the ancients would realise that they aren't invulnerable, and that their might be a situation that they would need to defend themselves.

                      Owen Macri

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Would an essentially peaceful race develop personal weapons? And would that many be needed? Even in real life, during war situations very few civilians have guns. This would make them potential combatants, and likely to be attacked. So, unless every Ancient was automatically a member of their armed forces, there probably wouldn't be too many personal weapons available, and they were most likely taken away when the Ancients abandoned Atlantis.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Yes, peaceful races would need personal weapons, for defence, just because they are peaacful doesn't make everyone else peaceful.

                          They would still have personal weapons for the millitary, or defense teams.

                          They didn't take thier weapons back to Earth because the way they said it in, "Before I Sleep" it sounded like they were going back to hide among the population, as normal humans, so they could live out the rest of thier lives. Plus thier were no containers in the gate room when they went back.

                          Owen Macri

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Owen Macri
                            Not necesarily, the Goa'uld could have also stolen the idea of creating things with naquadah. Also, the ancient staff weapons all shoot yellow beams of energy, the Zats shoot blue, the Ancients seem more like they would have used the color blue. There is a good possibility that the Ancients created the Zat, and the Goa'uld just renamed it.

                            Owen Macri
                            Why??
                            The only concrete goa'uld/ancient hybrid technology we've seen is the sarcoffigus, which was developed by ONE go'a uld. There's no evidence that ancients invented the zat and a good deal against it, since we;ve only ever seen them in the hands of Jaffa. You don't think we might find some in the ancient outposts or worlds?
                            As to blue being a likely color for teh ancients, come on. The color of the beam has zip to do with who created it.


                            We know the goa'uld take hosts and take their knowledge(how htey steal tech), so for an ancient to have created the zat and the goa'uld to steal it, one would have to have taken an ancient.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              There is no evidence for it, but there is also no evidence agianst it, just because the jaffa use them is no reason to believe that the technology behind them wasn't created by another race. I know the only reason that I said that was because they seem sort of "blue to me. We had a discussion about this before in this thread, I know there is no evidence backing it up.

                              But I do think that the color of something is related to who created it, people paint thier houses based on what colors they like, why wouldn't you do the same with other things.

                              The Goa'uld can steal technology by other means, they could simply take a zat, from the ancients, and reverse engineer it, there is no reason that they need to take an ancient host.

                              Owen Macri

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by Lightsabre
                                Why??
                                The only concrete goa'uld/ancient hybrid technology we've seen is the sarcoffigus, which was developed by ONE go'a uld. There's no evidence that ancients invented the zat and a good deal against it, since we;ve only ever seen them in the hands of Jaffa. You don't think we might find some in the ancient outposts or worlds?
                                As to blue being a likely color for teh ancients, come on. The color of the beam has zip to do with who created it.


                                We know the goa'uld take hosts and take their knowledge(how htey steal tech), so for an ancient to have created the zat and the goa'uld to steal it, one would have to have taken an ancient.
                                I think what's being debated here is the difference between research (scientific discovery) and invention (applied science).

                                We know that the Goa'uld 'stole' their technology, we're just not sure which part they stole. In some cases, they might have just 'stolen' research and based their inventions on that research. In this case, they'd have original creations, they just based it on someone elses research.
                                In the other case, they'd used whatever technology they couldn't improve on. A good example of this would be the ring transporters; we know they're of ancient design, but the Goa'uld incorporated them in their ships and structures because they can't improve it.

                                Based on the Zats design, I think it's fairly obvious that it's an original Goa'uld invention. I mean, the thing looks like a snake, and when activated it pops up like it's going to strike the target. That's totally Goa'uld.
                                It's possible the science the Zat is based on wasn't discovered by the Goa'uld originally, but they've incorporated it into an original invention.
                                Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

                                1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

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