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  1. #81
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    the asgard should alter themselves geneticaly so that they can asexualy reproduce, then we get to see an asgard split in half into two asgards, that would be pretty cool.

    Owen Macri
    Cloning IS asexual reproduction...

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    It would be incredibly naive for the ancients to not, have some kind of hand gun. Or at least make one when the Wraith appeared.
    They weren't fighting ground battles with the Wraith. The ancients didn't have the numbers for that. The battles they were fighting were more like orbital bombardments and ship to ship battles, in which case hand weapons are totally useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    When it comes down to it, if someone was in the situation that the ancients were in and didn't have some method of personal defence, it would be extremly irresponsible, it just doesn't seem like something that the ancients would do.
    Personal defense... They were designing personal shields, which was shown in the episode Hide and Seek. As I said before, if you have the ultimate defense, you don't need an offense at all.

    The ancients didn't need personal weapons. Their shield protected them from ships shooting at them, and their personal shield would have protected them from people shooting at them, they just didn't have enough time to put them into production apparently.
    I'd like to know why Rodney isn't wearing that shield when he goes on missions. Seems like it'd give him a huge advantage if they ran into resistance... Doh, I suppose that is why he doesn't use it; it'd make everything too easy for them.
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  2. #82
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    I meant asexual reproduction in the sense that the lifeform splits itself in half to become two lifeforms, I should have been more specific. Technically cloning in the regard that the asgard do it, cloning the body and not the mind, and transfering the mind into the second body, is not reproduction, a body is created but there it is not a sentient being until the asgard conciousnous is transfered into it. The asgard body that the mind departs is failing anyways so there is no use for it as a being, it dosen't have a consciousnous anyways. The proces of reproduction implies that a preditermined amount of creatures will grow in numbers, even single celled organsims grow in numbers, they reproduce, the asgards population doesn't grow, it stays the same, and probably decreases.

    As for your second point they wern't fighting ground battles but they were exploring planets, so there would be the need for someway of defending yourself.

    As for the shield, it did not seem like this was a piece of technology that the ancients got to use, if the wraith attacked them on another planet an all they had was a way of not getting hit by their stunners. What are they supposed to do, walk to the gate or puddle jumper while under constant fire from the wraith, even with the shields the wraith could still capture them.

    I hold up my original point that for the ancients to not use some type of personal weapon because they didn't need it, would be incredibly naive, the ancients don't come across as naive.

    Owen Macri

  3. #83
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    I meant asexual reproduction in the sense that the lifeform splits itself in half to become two lifeforms, I should have been more specific.
    That's called budding .

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    Technically cloning in the regard that the asgard do it, cloning the body and not the mind, and transfering the mind into the second body, is not reproduction, a body is created but there it is not a sentient being until the asgard conciousnous is transfered into it.
    You mean that's not cloning to you. Technically, it is cloning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    The asgard body that the mind departs is failing anyways so there is no use for it as a being, it dosen't have a consciousnous anyways. The proces of reproduction implies that a preditermined amount of creatures will grow in numbers, even single celled organsims grow in numbers, they reproduce, the asgards population doesn't grow, it stays the same, and probably decreases.
    Population growth and reproduction is totally different. For example, if each mother-father pair only had two offspring, there is only short term growth, because the parents eventually die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    As for your second point they wern't fighting ground battles but they were exploring planets, so there would be the need for someway of defending yourself.
    They had the "life signs detector" which would tell them if a lifeform was coming their way. Seeing them before they see you is about as good a survival tactic as you can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    As for the shield, it did not seem like this was a piece of technology that the ancients got to use, if the wraith attacked them on another planet an all they had was a way of not getting hit by their stunners.
    Or their Dart's weapons. Or their grenades. The shield was still in development though, or at least that's what the show would have us believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    I hold up my original point that for the ancients to not use some type of personal weapon because they didn't need it, would be incredibly naive, the ancients don't come across as naive.

    Owen Macri
    They really are naive. I mean, take this quote from Rising pt. I:
    HOLOGRAM
    In our over confidence, we were unprepared and outnumbered.
    Over confident, unprepared, and outnumbered. They never expected that they'd have enemies, and that makes them naive.
    Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

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  4. #84
    Second Lieutenant Macilnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin
    They had the "life signs detector" which would tell them if a lifeform was coming their way. Seeing them before they see you is about as good a survival tactic as you can get.


    Or their Dart's weapons. Or their grenades. The shield was still in development though, or at least that's what the show would have us believe.


    They really are naive. I mean, take this quote from Rising pt. I:
    Over confident, unprepared, and outnumbered. They never expected that they'd have enemies, and that makes them naive.
    First: the life signs detector does not(that we, or the Atlantis team) tell if the lifeform is friend or foe.

    Two: we know of at least one handheld weapon(see my post on the other page) so they might have more.

    Three: The point Owen Macri was making was just that; the shields could only do so much. Just because the Wraith cannot harm you if you have a personal shield they can still capture you and send you through the stargate to a space gate where you would die from a number of things.
    Jackson: Oh Please! Teal’c’s like one of the deepest people I know. He’s so deep. Come on! Tell em how deep you are. You’ll be lucky if you understand this.
    Teal’c: My depth is immaterial to this conversation.
    Jackson: (Excited) Oh!! See?
    O’Neill: No more beer for you.

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  5. #85
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin
    That's called budding .


    You mean that's not cloning to you. Technically, it is cloning.


    Population growth and reproduction is totally different. For example, if each mother-father pair only had two offspring, there is only short term growth, because the parents eventually die.


    They had the "life signs detector" which would tell them if a lifeform was coming their way. Seeing them before they see you is about as good a survival tactic as you can get.


    Or their Dart's weapons. Or their grenades. The shield was still in development though, or at least that's what the show would have us believe.


    They really are naive. I mean, take this quote from Rising pt. I:
    Over confident, unprepared, and outnumbered. They never expected that they'd have enemies, and that makes them naive.
    Thank you, I did not know that it was called budding, although now that sound familiar.

    No I know it is cloning, it is not technically reprodution, and adressing your next point as well... I understand that completley and it is ture however in most cases reproduction does lead to some sort of growth in population, I know growth in population is not a constant even when there is reproduction, but reproduction implies that you are creating NEW life, with NEW minds, and NEW people. Even if parents only had two children each, there children are still new individuals even though the population wouldn't grow. The Asgard don't create new life, they copy the old life and transfer in thier conciousnous, so no new minds are created.

    As for your next point about the life signs detector, yes the life signs detetctor could help them see where thier enemies are, but the wraith could still run in and grab them, even if they were protected against the Wraith ordinance. Also yes, Macilnar is correct, the life signs detector won't define if the lifeform is ancient or wraith, friend or foe?

    As for your last point. Yes, I agree the ancients were naive in that aspect, they didn't think the wraith would grow powerful enough to chalenge them on a significant level, however the ancients would realise that they aren't invulnerable, and that their might be a situation that they would need to defend themselves.

    Owen Macri

  6. #86
    Lieutenant Colonel SeaBee's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Would an essentially peaceful race develop personal weapons? And would that many be needed? Even in real life, during war situations very few civilians have guns. This would make them potential combatants, and likely to be attacked. So, unless every Ancient was automatically a member of their armed forces, there probably wouldn't be too many personal weapons available, and they were most likely taken away when the Ancients abandoned Atlantis.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=29235&d=1297874202

  7. #87
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Yes, peaceful races would need personal weapons, for defence, just because they are peaacful doesn't make everyone else peaceful.

    They would still have personal weapons for the millitary, or defense teams.

    They didn't take thier weapons back to Earth because the way they said it in, "Before I Sleep" it sounded like they were going back to hide among the population, as normal humans, so they could live out the rest of thier lives. Plus thier were no containers in the gate room when they went back.

    Owen Macri

  8. #88

    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    Not necesarily, the Goa'uld could have also stolen the idea of creating things with naquadah. Also, the ancient staff weapons all shoot yellow beams of energy, the Zats shoot blue, the Ancients seem more like they would have used the color blue. There is a good possibility that the Ancients created the Zat, and the Goa'uld just renamed it.

    Owen Macri
    Why??
    The only concrete goa'uld/ancient hybrid technology we've seen is the sarcoffigus, which was developed by ONE go'a uld. There's no evidence that ancients invented the zat and a good deal against it, since we;ve only ever seen them in the hands of Jaffa. You don't think we might find some in the ancient outposts or worlds?
    As to blue being a likely color for teh ancients, come on. The color of the beam has zip to do with who created it.


    We know the goa'uld take hosts and take their knowledge(how htey steal tech), so for an ancient to have created the zat and the goa'uld to steal it, one would have to have taken an ancient.

  9. #89
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    There is no evidence for it, but there is also no evidence agianst it, just because the jaffa use them is no reason to believe that the technology behind them wasn't created by another race. I know the only reason that I said that was because they seem sort of "blue to me. We had a discussion about this before in this thread, I know there is no evidence backing it up.

    But I do think that the color of something is related to who created it, people paint thier houses based on what colors they like, why wouldn't you do the same with other things.

    The Goa'uld can steal technology by other means, they could simply take a zat, from the ancients, and reverse engineer it, there is no reason that they need to take an ancient host.

    Owen Macri

  10. #90
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightsabre
    Why??
    The only concrete goa'uld/ancient hybrid technology we've seen is the sarcoffigus, which was developed by ONE go'a uld. There's no evidence that ancients invented the zat and a good deal against it, since we;ve only ever seen them in the hands of Jaffa. You don't think we might find some in the ancient outposts or worlds?
    As to blue being a likely color for teh ancients, come on. The color of the beam has zip to do with who created it.


    We know the goa'uld take hosts and take their knowledge(how htey steal tech), so for an ancient to have created the zat and the goa'uld to steal it, one would have to have taken an ancient.
    I think what's being debated here is the difference between research (scientific discovery) and invention (applied science).

    We know that the Goa'uld 'stole' their technology, we're just not sure which part they stole. In some cases, they might have just 'stolen' research and based their inventions on that research. In this case, they'd have original creations, they just based it on someone elses research.
    In the other case, they'd used whatever technology they couldn't improve on. A good example of this would be the ring transporters; we know they're of ancient design, but the Goa'uld incorporated them in their ships and structures because they can't improve it.

    Based on the Zats design, I think it's fairly obvious that it's an original Goa'uld invention. I mean, the thing looks like a snake, and when activated it pops up like it's going to strike the target. That's totally Goa'uld.
    It's possible the science the Zat is based on wasn't discovered by the Goa'uld originally, but they've incorporated it into an original invention.
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  11. #91
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis69's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    But I do think that the color of something is related to who created it, people paint thier houses based on what colors they like, why wouldn't you do the same with other things.
    it would make sense. id say the colour of "beam" would relate to the type of energy or tech that's powering it, and if the race used the same type of technology in their weapons it should be the same colour. but that's assuming that the type of power of tech directly controls the colour.
    Quote Originally Posted by lightsabre
    We know the goa'uld take hosts and take their knowledge(how htey steal tech), so for an ancient to have created the zat and the goa'uld to steal it, one would have to have taken an ancient.
    If a goa'uld took an ancient as host it would probably take a lot more than just the knowledge to make a zat. if that particular ancient had enough knowledge to create a weapon similar to a zat it would have much more useful and powerful information. i think that it the zat must've been a purely goa'uld weapon (as said above) in the way that it was created perhaps using the knowledge of another race or from "studying from others research." and we know they do that for sure, given anubis' scientist in "homecoming".
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  12. #92
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    I agree, the technoloogy behind the Zats could have been the only thing stolen, not the Zat itself, however it is possible that the Goa'uld stole the Zats themselves.

    You are assuming that because it looks like a snake, and because it looks like it is going to attack someone when it pops up, that it must be of Goa'uld design, because obviously these are Goa'uld traits, but who is to say that the Goa'uld didn't base thier traits on that of another race, the same race that they stole the Zats from and all of thier other "snake based" technology. Allthough I do agree with you and the design does look Goa'uld, it is possible that the Goa'uld still stole it. For example in the season two episode "The Fifth Race" if you look at the walls of the room, they have intersecting curved lines going all across them, these look obviously similar to walls of Goa'uld design and also the curved intersecting lines used on the statue of Ra that was used in the original opening credits.

    Owen Macri

  13. #93
    Captain SG-1ssm's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by lionel_pendergast_rocks
    i'd think that they'd have some kind of merciful weapon, like a vaporizer, and you don;t even feel it when you get vaporized. i also thought that they should also have weapons similar to the force lances on Andromeda. i dont know why.
    No, I think they would have weapons that kocked you out for like a week so sometime in that time they would throw you in a prisen.
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  14. #94
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis69's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by SG-1ssm
    No, I think they would have weapons that kocked you out for like a week so sometime in that time they would throw you in a prisen.
    Yeah, that's all well and good but it's not very practical! imagine, you shoot someone with a gun that knocks them out for a week, then you realise that you need to extract information from them. you'd have to wait a week to get it, which is just bad karma if you're fighting a losing war. unless you could change the time of the knockout but then we're verging on men in black and we all know how terrible the sequel was so lets not even go there.
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  15. #95
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    You could have a gun that implants a microchip into the person, which travels to the brain, and controls their bodies motor and cognative functions, so, they could be asleep as long as you want, and you could wake them up whenever you want, you could even kill them.

    Owen Macri

  16. #96
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis69's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Macri
    You could have a gun that implants a microchip into the person, which travels to the brain, and controls their bodies motor and cognative functions, so, they could be asleep as long as you want, and you could wake them up whenever you want, you could even kill them.

    Owen Macri
    and think of the hilarious social situations that could be created. Loss of bladder control, give tim henman lazy arms (and make him better no doubt...), make people say random words. the possibilities for practical jokes are endless! good thinking owen!!

    oh yeah, and congrats on the 2000th post. i remember back in the days when you were a super-soldier....
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  17. #97
    Lieutenant Colonel _Owen_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    You are right, I wasn't even thinking of that!

    Thank you, great thinking on your part too!

    Oh ya, the good old days... before the science and tech section... ahh the good old days...

    lol. Thanks.

    Owen Macri

  18. #98

    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    I dont know if it had been said in this tread or not as i have been too lazy to read most of it but the Alterans had personal weapons based on the episode Aurora production pics..id say the reason they didnt find any of these weapons on atlantis is because it didnt fit into the writers plans for the show and wanted the humans to use their weapons.
    What i dont understand is why the writers didnt include goa'uld weapons for the atlantis teams, zats especially, and also you would think that earth has got its hands on enough alien weapons tech to come up with energy based weapons by now.... best the have done so far is heavy scale railguns.
    A question; why are the railgun turrents on atlantis blue and the daedalus ones yellow? i personally think blue railguns look cooler and make it easier to indentify that they are railguns instead of what the yellow they look like, which is pathetic little machine guns.

  19. #99
    Major General immhotep's Avatar
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    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    answer to thread question:

    the ancient weapons in aurora are like zats cept with out the blue bit

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  20. #100

    Default Re: What personal weapons did the Ancients have? (poss spoilers, Atlantis)

    I would think the only reason they didn't have hand weapons would be that they really didn't need them due to their mental powers, I.e: telekinesis, ect. We know that the Ancients had powers of healing, and we really don't know what else they could have done before they ascended. So my vote would go with mental powers. Why use a beam hand weapon when you could just throw your enemy across a room with your mind?

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