'Trial and Error' (206) General Discussion

[jelgate]

My first crazy theory was that maybe the chair does actually work, and since Rush sat in it before any outward symptoms could show (unlike Chloe), he got cured. But I think it'll never be explained, and we'll just shrug it off and say the tracking device was Rush's gift, while Chloe gets to become the new queen of Blue Alien Ville.

I find that hard to grasp it would selective cure only Rush and not Chloe. If Chloe was too far gone then there would be some kind of response by the chair

[MattSilver 3k]

We really don't but one guess may be the tracking device they put inside of Rush

My first crazy theory was that maybe the chair does actually work, and since Rush sat in it before any outward symptoms could show (unlike Chloe), he got cured. But I think it'll never be explained, and we'll just shrug it off and say the tracking device was Rush's gift, while Chloe gets to become the new queen of Blue Alien Ville.

[jelgate]

Great episode!
The only thing I'm wondering though is why did the blue's decide to alter Chloe and not Rush? Rush was on their ship longer, so it would make sense that if anyone was messed with, it would have been him. Granted he had the homing device implanted in his chest, buy why install that at all if the blue's weren't planning to release him anyway? Sounds like Rush and Chloe are exactly where the blue's want them! But now that Rush's homing device has been removed, the alien shuttle has been dislodged from the hull of the ship, and Chloe's blackouts have been discovered, maybe whatever plan the blue's had has fallen apart?

I'm also thinking now that Eli has Ginn's assistance, they'll put both of their nerd brains together and figure out what Rush has been up to. Either that, or they will figure something really cool out about the ship, or solve some insane problem that Rush hasn't been able to solve. Eh, who knows. Either way, it's nice to see that Eli has someone special now. Hopefully she isn't using him right?!

And as far as Destiny getting into everyones heads? It seems that after absorbing Franklin (or whatever it did to him), and linking with Rush in the chair, Destiny has gained a better understanding of human physiology and has been able to use it to its advantage to ensure that the crew heads in the right direction. The portent Franklin gave concerning danger ahead might be Destiny's way of warning Rush that its time to stop acting alone and get some help from the crew. Any danger ahead will be best dealt with by a fully functioning crew and ship, not one dude sitting alone on an empty bridge!

Hopefully young won't fall off the wagon again for awhile! Now that he's divorced, he and TJ will probably restart their relationship or something. At the very least, having the emotional support of a significant other would only help to keep young in a good frame of mind...

We really don't but one guess may be the tracking device they put inside of Rush

[Misfits]

After much thought and pondering the substances in this episode, I would have to say that this is THE most significant episode in the Stargate Universe Series.

All the other episodes were builing blocks, but THIS episode is the foundation.

There are elements in this Episode that are crucial to the overall story telling of this series that have not been disclosed previously.

A. First and foremost, the revelation that Destiny AI, let's call it DAI, is much more than just an auto-pilot program.
It is more of a sentient being, which, up to now, we, the viewers were clueless about.
All we have been led to believe up to now, is that Rush told Destiny what was required and the auto-pilot program adjusted itself to meet those requirements. In this Episode, the revelation was made that DAI actually makes choices and contemplates those choices beyond the limits of an auto-pilot.
B. DAI is able to interact with it's inhabitants in a direct neural link, as per Young's battle scenarios.
The significance is that what is happening to Rush in the bridge may only be the tip of the iceberg. If DAI is able to make a person see whatever it wants the person to see, then, ultimately, DAI controls EVERYTHING.
This concept was the basis for the Star Trek pilot episode 'The Cage'.
C. DAI has selected Young as the commander of Destiny, not Rush. This will, of course drive Rush up the wall, but as the saying goes, 'You reap what you sow.'
D. Col. Young has been reset from all his past troubles and can now go forward with a focus that was previously missing.
E. Lt. Scott has concretely solidified his position as a very capable second in command with clear understanding of what it takes to be the commander, which he is currently not prepared to assume. He knows his limitations, and that is very significant.
F. There may be a way to connect back to earth using the solar power. Very quick and slight mention in the episode, however, it creates a whole new dimension of travels back and forth from Earth.
G. Last, but not least, Rush's realization that he is not The One. DAI 's rejection may finally bring Rush into the fold of being a contributing member of the crew, instead of a loose canon with visions of grandeur and disregard for any one else's authority over his actions.

[Mortock42]

Great episode!
The only thing I'm wondering though is why did the blue's decide to alter Chloe and not Rush? Rush was on their ship longer, so it would make sense that if anyone was messed with, it would have been him. Granted he had the homing device implanted in his chest, buy why install that at all if the blue's weren't planning to release him anyway? Sounds like Rush and Chloe are exactly where the blue's want them! But now that Rush's homing device has been removed, the alien shuttle has been dislodged from the hull of the ship, and Chloe's blackouts have been discovered, maybe whatever plan the blue's had has fallen apart?

I'm also thinking now that Eli has Ginn's assistance, they'll put both of their nerd brains together and figure out what Rush has been up to. Either that, or they will figure something really cool out about the ship, or solve some insane problem that Rush hasn't been able to solve. Eh, who knows. Either way, it's nice to see that Eli has someone special now. Hopefully she isn't using him right?!

And as far as Destiny getting into everyones heads? It seems that after absorbing Franklin (or whatever it did to him), and linking with Rush in the chair, Destiny has gained a better understanding of human physiology and has been able to use it to its advantage to ensure that the crew heads in the right direction. The portent Franklin gave concerning danger ahead might be Destiny's way of warning Rush that its time to stop acting alone and get some help from the crew. Any danger ahead will be best dealt with by a fully functioning crew and ship, not one dude sitting alone on an empty bridge!

Hopefully young won't fall off the wagon again for awhile! Now that he's divorced, he and TJ will probably restart their relationship or something. At the very least, having the emotional support of a significant other would only help to keep young in a good frame of mind...

[Commander Zelix]

Spoiler:

Chloe isn't the real Chloe and 'her' disguise is failing and it is changing back to original form, it just got all her braincontent copied and it thinks it is Chloe. Just my idea about her skin change.

THAT is a VERY interesting theory. I haven't thought of that angle.
I knew there was a reason why I bother to read these threads. Once in a while, somebody will come up with a point-of-view that changes how I view the Episodes.

Yes that's a pretty interesting theory. It reminds me of a very cool New Outer Limits episode. New Outer Limit spoilers:

Spoiler:

The one with Nicole Deboer called "Quality of Mercy"

I don't think they will go in that direction.

I still hope they will go all the way with the Chloe transformation arc and not find a cure or solution too fast.

[myhelix]

I really liked that episode, 8/10

Liked
Scott man up (seems like he would be a good man in charge)
Young slowly falling apart
Rush, he sit on the bridge chair like the king of the world (in the end I control the ship)
Wray is getting likable
Eli, Ginn and Greer, that was funny
Destiny's way of reading the crews mind, creepy and interesting
Special Effects, always amazing (especially the part where Scott get´s pulled out in Space)

Only complain is that the part with the smurfs was, again, not real.

[Misfits]

BTW,

Spoiler:

Chloe isn't the real Chloe and 'her' disguise is failing and it is changing back to original form, it just got all her braincontent copied and it thinks it is Chloe. Just my idea about her skin change.

THAT is a VERY interesting theory. I haven't thought of that angle.
I knew there was a reason why I bother to read these threads. Once in a while, somebody will come up with a point-of-view that changes how I view the Episodes.

[Misfits]

But the core similarities are all that is important. O'Neill acted against his will, consciously or not. Chloe does the same, only she blacks out. She is compelled to act, but this is not proof that another consciousness is controlling her.

The fact that she blacks out is the key difference. While she's actively conscious, as in she's in control of her actions, nothing strange happens. Whereas, when she blacks out, as in she's not in control of her actions, everything else happens.
O'Neill was conscious, and actively aware of what was going on, however, his sub-counscious, knowing the requirements would direct his actions.
The disconnect is crucial, and actually points to a separate entity in her brain.

You've admitted it's an opinion. Thank you.

You're welcome. Just like your assertions are an opinion.
We have differing opinions as to whether he's telling the truth or he's lying.
Everything he does tells me he's lying.

Yet you cannot give a logical reason to explain everything I've told you, which is a fact that the show has presented to us, both by dialogue and by the scenes shown.

You can deny it as fact, but the only fact is Chloe is, as canonically stated, fighting some sort of infection per her abnormal antibiotic activity.

You're basing your theory on your understanding of medical technology, biology, etc....
What I'm saying is that might not be sufficient to prove concretely the facts of the situation.
These Blue Aliens have technology way advanced than our current understanding of these fields. They are able to construct and operate intergalactic spacecrafts. What else advancements do they have at their disposal? What is the extent of their medical technology? We don't know.
And yet, you state your theory as a fact. What I'm saying is that I don't know. Without a better understanding of their technological capability, I won't accept your categorization that Chloe has a Virus. Do I know what she has, or how it is affecting her? Nope, not a clue.

[Misfits]

Well the whole Rush theory is interesting, but not right. Let's see, there are others in the room, some people like Brody has been studied the chair for long time. In fact he is the one operates to transfer data when Rush is on the chair, so he would be able to find out if Rush is transfering data or not.

Don't say Rush think they are dumb and wouldn't find out. It is just a risk that Rush wouldn't take. He could simply take Chloe to the place he's been working(Pathogen) or bring the notebook to her(T&E). Right? So why he would risk to turn the entire crew against him?

You have some valid points, so, let's review them. While Brody was monitoring the transfer of data in 'Human', there is no such indication that this was the case with Chloe. Furthermore, it is a given that Rush can program rings around everybody except Eli, and Eli was not at the controls. If you accept the concept that Rush engineered this whole scheme from the start, then he would have also programed display outputs that he can manipulate. Remember in 'Earth', the Earth scientists were clueless as to actual going ons while they were clearly looking at the console displays.

As to why would he risk this scenario, remember that this is the same person that dialed the 9th chevron address in the first place. His pursuit of his 'dream' has no bounds. As he was conversing with Gloria, Rush indicates that having Chloe loose and free on Destiny is what he wanted. Yeah, he could bring Chloe to his 'Thinking Room' or bring his notebook to her, however, that would limit what Chloe would be able to decipher. Her freedom to roam would give Chloe the choice of what to study. And her choices may be things that Rush hasn't even noticed yet.

Remember that Rush was willing to sacrifice someone on the POSSIBILITY that the neuro-interface chair could be helpful.
And what do we have here. A possible decipher entity, Chloe, that would be helpful in his quest to better understand Destiny, caged, confined, restrained. Not his cup of java, as the saying goes.
Also remember his conversation with Young when her Diary was being discussed. He was adamant that Chloe be allowed to continue studying Destiny.

When you put all these pieces together, to me, Rush set up the ruse of the chair curing Chloe.

[jelgate]

Overall this episode intrigued me, and I found most of it fairly entertaining.

I wonder though if the writers are going to include an episode that is more "hard Sci-Fi" than space-soap-opera. Not that I really mind the space-opera, but clearly some fans are getting antsy at the introspective, exploration of humanity aspects of the show.

The IOA rep character still seems superfluous to me.

And, I also think that if the story is supposed to simulate real humans in that situation we would have seen more people go bonkers, for real, by now in the journey.

In the big picture I do not mind if the series becomes more about the "destiny" of Destiny. The humans more or less are just along for ride, though Rush has limited control. I just hope the big revelation won't be a let down.

Thier is no such thing as hard scifi. Its just a fandom term to describe the preference of what they like

[wolverine_nl]

BTW,

Spoiler:

Chloe isn't the real Chloe and 'her' disguise is failing and it is changing back to original form, it just got all her braincontent copied and it thinks it is Chloe. Just my idea about her skin change.

[senilegreen]

Overall this episode intrigued me, and I found most of it fairly entertaining.

I wonder though if the writers are going to include an episode that is more "hard Sci-Fi" than space-soap-opera. Not that I really mind the space-opera, but clearly some fans are getting antsy at the introspective, exploration of humanity aspects of the show.

The IOA rep character still seems superfluous to me.

And, I also think that if the story is supposed to simulate real humans in that situation we would have seen more people go bonkers, for real, by now in the journey.

In the big picture I do not mind if the series becomes more about the "destiny" of Destiny. The humans more or less are just along for ride, though Rush has limited control. I just hope the big revelation won't be a let down.

[senilegreen]

Now we def know that Destiny was playing with TJ

Does anyone else think it's entirely possible that TJ's dream was just a scenario generated by the Destiny in order to keep her from completely falling apart since she is necessary to the mission?

It would be reasonable to come to that conclusion. That the ship is capable of interacting with the human brain at some level of brain function is not surprising, given "the chair" and everything else that has been described about the Ancients at the point of their history in which the ship was built. If anything, what is a bit out of the reasonable is expecting Rush to be able to read an Ancient screen describing the simulation and knowing what it is doing!

For those wondering why Atlantis wouldn't have been like this ship - remember, the Ancients existed for a few millions of years and went through definite periods in which they were different. Atlantis didn't have those stone-carved control stations found on some planets in SG-1, etc.

[morbosfist]

That is just not the same. O'Neill was conscious when changes took place. He was aware of his actions while they were happening. Chloe is totally different. She blacks out while she does these things. The only thing she has exhibited while conscious is solving the equations and recognizing Blue Alien language.
Similar, yes, however, definitively different.

But the core similarities are all that is important. O'Neill acted against his will, consciously or not. Chloe does the same, only she blacks out. She is compelled to act, but this is not proof that another consciousness is controlling her.

Actually, Rush telling the truth is rarer than him lying. The problem with this discussion is that it's just as hard to prove he's telling the truth or he's lying.
When confronted with such a situation, additional factors must be looked at in order to ascertain whether he's telling the truth, or he's lying.
From my point of view, with the other factors weighed in, Rush is lying from the start.

You've admitted it's an opinion. Thank you.

I never said I knew what it was. Blue Aliens that are advanced enough to construct intergalactic space crafts, yeah, I have no idea of their medical science or such. I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. I don't claim to know.
However, I object to your statement of your opinion as fact.

Yet you cannot give a logical reason to explain everything I've told you, which is a fact that the show has presented to us, both by dialogue and by the scenes shown.

You can deny it as fact, but the only fact is Chloe is, as canonically stated, fighting some sort of infection per her abnormal antibiotic activity.