'Seizure' (215) General Discussion

[The_Asgard_live]

Earth can't always be the good guys, we are not the Nox, we are not perfect (we are young).

So much for being the fifth race and deserving of the toys the Asgard left earth. O'Neill's decisions in this episode... Somewhere little Thor cries

[Kilgharrah]

In Atlantis she let Rodney and Zelenka work without much interference.

Yep. I hated that. I didn't like her much on Atlantis because of that, but it showed us another good side of her and it's a great side too. She's a good leader. It's like she's perfect.

Earth can't always be the good guys, we are not the Nox, we are not perfect (we are young).

Concerning that, I agree with you. It's typical humans. That's what governments do in real life, but not in Stargate. I think they really managed to make SGU more real than SG- 1 or SGU, but it's pointless coz I wanna see fiction. I'm not watching it to see what I see in real life.

Plus O'Neill was not always the voice or moral conciseness, that was Daniels role.

Hello!!!
He disregarded direct orders to blow Abydos up and he, along with SG- 1 helped the tollans and Nox against the government and went to Klorel's Ha'tak even though they were told not to.

Sorry if that's a little bit off-topic. But I don't think it's much off-topic.

[morbosfist]

First of all, Y Mckay????
Carter would have done it better and faster. Mckay is good but not as good.

Carter is no smarter than McKay. She's a better out of the box thinker, which McKay himself admits.

Second, even though I liked the idea of using the stone to infiltrate Langara, but this is not Earth. Not how they do things. I can't believe O'Neill approved of that. No tolerance in abuse of technology.
What was that!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem: Fifth, the Eurondans, the planet with the Indian tribe...

Third, the Rush we know would never do what he did. Not even for love. He has always been rational and considering every possibility. Also Mandy would never suppress Ginn that way or anyone else. Not to hide a mistake and not for anything else.

Oh please, he would totally have gone for a booty call when she was using Ginn's body, how is this any different? As for Mandy, she would. Look how she covered for Rush in "The Greater Good". When it comes to him, she'll do such things, and Ginn was going to sabotage her work.

Fourth, they had gone that far and infiltrated Langara, they might have well got on with it and dialed destiny.
Fifth, why isn't Jonas back???? He could have helped them by convincing the government.
What was that!!!!!!!!!

Sure, because being riddled full of bullets sure would have been worth it. They only would have lost McKay, Telford, Young, two SG teams, and any future chance of diplomatic relations. Totally acceptable.

Jonas must have been busy, and he isn't that influential.

[Kaiphantom]

To all of the people complaining about the lack of mention of Jonas or the Atlantis situation: did you ever consider that these were originally in the episode but they had to be cut because the episode was running over?

Oh, I do know this could have been a possibility. But in the grand scheme of things, I think something else could have been cut in favor of Jonas. Say, the Sheppard mention (and this is coming from someone who likes Sheppard more than Jonas).

And the whole thing about, "Oh, why couldn't Earth just wait the couple of months?" "Oh, why did they need to take the facility when the Alliance weren't a real threat?" was all explained; firstly, Homeworld Command had no idea that the Langaran government was actively trying to protect their alliance with Earth. For all Woolsey and Telford knew, the Alliance could have come to an agreement with the Langarans that would allow them to attack Destiny whenever they wanted. This is why the urgent seizure of the facility was necessary.

No, it wasn't. Has everyone forgotton about venting the atmosphere from Destiny's gateroom? You know, the plan they were going to go with back at the Season 1 finale?

[Kanten]

The Destiny crew really needs to figure out a way to stick an iris on the gate, could have avoided all this trouble. They're overthinking the "protect Destiny" plan a little bit.

Not to mention I don't think Young would hesitate to vent the compartment the next time around.

[traylormatt]

If they vent the atmosphere but they have oxygen masks on couldnt they still work away. Open any doors they want with those devices etc.

[Kilgharrah]

Ahem: Fifth, the Eurondans, the planet with the Indian tribe...

What? What is that?
What are the eurodans?

[The_Asgard_live]

No, it wasn't. Has everyone forgotton about venting the atmosphere from Destiny's gateroom? You know, the plan they were going to go with back at the Season 1 finale?

Its an excellent point. I don't know if I forgot about it so much as that my thinking, events never lead to it (at least through Langara) But you are right...

So, worst case scenario... Langara sides with the LA. Earth stands by and lets them dial. (Instead of taking out the facilities, beaming out their gate etc...). The LA dial in and then what? Go through and die? They can't send a bomb because the goal is to own the ship. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Seems like LA is neutered when it comes to Destiny.

[kudra]

One of the patchier episodes this season but still re-watchable (especially certain Rush / Perry scenes )

Minus Point
- Most of the Langara plot - if they want to prevent the LA attacking Langara and dialling Destiny using the old dangerous method why not just offer to station some Earth forces there until the local scientists look over Mckays new design and approve it?
- More Eli vs Mckay would have been good and shame that there was no Rush vs Mackay

Plus points

• I really enjoyed the Woolsey and Mckay characters and their interaction with the SGU crew even though I don't care about seeing SGA / SG1 characters
• Whole Rush and Perry sub plot. Poor Rush and Eli never catch a break with the ladies but at least Rush got some and Mandy too (presumably for the first time for her?) . An OK way to shelve Ginn / Perry if they couldn't afford to add them to the regular cast.
• Rush / Perry - bedroom scene (deserves it's own bullet point)

The end was all the sadder because I'm certain Rush was telling the truth when he said he did love her. I suspect the problem was that her scenario was based on her perception of what being in love is - she's much younger and has only ever loved him, so this is 'first love' for her and he is her one and only love. Rush is older more experienced and his perception of loving someone is tempered by having loved and been married to Gloria - Perry can't be his one and only love.

[Kaiphantom]

If they vent the atmosphere but they have oxygen masks on couldnt they still work away. Open any doors they want with those devices etc.

But the LA don't know that.

And venting atmosphere can be more than just oxygen; it means they need pressurized space suits. The LA can send any number of people through... but they have no way of reporting back how things are. Remember, you can't even send a signal back. As far as the LA know, their first group went through and were all defeated, but they don't know how.

And do you remember how someone comes out of the gate? Remove the gravity, and they get smashed against the far wall as if they were shot out of a cannon; suits get damaged, and they lose that oxygen, which promptly gets vented. And I'm even wondering if the LA has space suits.

Another thing about lack of atmosphere, is lack of pressure. Not many know this, but our astronauts have to pre-breathe pure oxygen for 4 hours before a spacewalk to get the nitrogen out of their system (we use unpressurized space suits). So even if the LA use pressurized space suits, they will still be damaged from being launched out of the gate. Hell, I'd even put up some crude spikes around the gate room. LA gets launched out of the gate and gets impaled. Or set up some gun emplacements covering the room, rigged to remote control. Or flashbangs and grenades rigged to remote detonation (yes, this is easy to do even in their situation).

In short, there are tons of defenses that can be taken, that the LA can't possibly know about (Destiny crew could just not tell Homeworld command of them, so that the information never makes it off the planet). Remember, all Earth needs is two months for the Langarans to go over the data. I consider it highly plausible that the Destiny crew can hold out for that long.

As long as Young isn't an idiot again, heh.

[knowles2]

To all of the people complaining about the lack of mention of Jonas or the Atlantis situation: did you ever consider that these were originally in the episode but they had to be cut because the episode was running over?

Joe Mallozzi said on his blog that Jonas would get a mention in "Seizure", but he didn't; this implies that either he was lying, or that the scene was cut. I think that the latter is far more likely, especially given the fact that this kind of thing happens very often (all of the TJ flashbacks had to be cut from next weeks episode, "The Hunt", after all). Mallozzi also said that they would have to rewrite a little bit of the Extinction script to take into account that it would now take place years after Atlantis, implying that there must have been a mention of Atlantis in "Seizure", otherwise they would not have needed to rewrite it.

?

I have to agree, not neccessary because what Joe said in his blog but because the episode just felt like it was missing scenes to me. I suspect a lot was cut from this episode and left on the floor, if certainly felt like that to me in the episode.

Do they include extra scenes in the DVDs ? it be interesting to see what was cut.

[Petra]

I've just finished watching and haven't had the time to read the forum yet, but my first reactions are:

WHERE THE HELL IS JONAS???!!!! Why did nobody even mention him? Why oh why do the writers insist on continuing one of the worst and most shameful aspects of SG-1: pretending that Jonas never existed?!

YAY! for Jack mention!

Yay! For Greer being his usual awesome self!

The episode was quite enjoyable and interesting, but hardly the best so far.

WHERE THE HELL WAS JONAS?!

I'll be back later to post something more reasonable. I just need to tame a little my inner Jonas fangirl...

[PotRoast]

As always, it was good but not my favorite. I keep wondering when Eli will punch Rush?!

[garhkal]

Wow, Earth really screwed up on this one. They had to for narrative reasons, of course, but man...

Then we have Perry. Totally called her dominating the link. I can understand her motives here, but Eli did the right thing shuffling her off to a protected archive.

Earth did shank the pooch massively on this. Heck i could easily see this splintering their relationship with OTHER planets..

As to perry, i don't think she was domanating the link, just messed up making it, and didn't want Ginn trying to do anything till she had a chance to try and fix it.

Would have been better if they mentioned Jonas Quinn.

That it would have. OR better yet, had him show up.

I normally really like seeing Ginn and Amanda but with this episode I was so interested in the main storyline about dialing the ship that I couldn't help but wish for the scenes of Rush and Perry to end as soon as possible.

My gripes are that they didnt mention anything about Langara recovering from Ori control, Jonas Quinn, and of course whats going on with Atlantis. When you have a Universe that spans three shows and you have a cross over people are going to want an update on the other things happening in the other shows.

I am thinking some of those "not mentioneds" were CAUSE they want to keep us in the dark...
BUT i do agree, even the ambasador saying to Woosley in that first meeting "Sorry, but we are still rebuilding from the Ori's occupation, we don't need this worry right now." would have been nice.

I think you are overestimating Earth's power. Yes our ships are superior but the Alliance has fleets and we have only a few. Never mind they don't exactly have an offical captial.

And most of our capacity to destroy stuff is mass area way of killing, which would take out many innocents around the LA bases..

Actually, you saying the word "suspect" makes me wonder if the LA knows something about the ship that we dont some how.

IMO that was already established, when we saw the LA troops use those door openers, that seemed just a little too conveniently made to exactly fit on those doors..

soooo everyone was ok with rush getting himself some lovin?

Being with what he has been through (his breakdown, having to deal with his wife's death a 2nd time) seeing Perry twice, then having her stolen from him. YES i am ok with it. heck, i was happy for rush.

Oh man, poor Eli gets screwed over again. Feel sorry for the guy. If I were him, Rush would be dead right now.

Why? Couldn't he have just deleted Perry??

It is whatever the writers claim it is, I don't think there is any consistency about it. The O'neill device that ran on the power of a single staff weapon boosted a whole gate enough to dial galaxy-to-galaxy. A single ZPM should be put that to shame. 2 or 3....

A) the staff device worked once.. AND the Asgard galaxy was closer than the pegasus.
B) iirc they stated in several SGA eps that the ZPM's don't provde a BIGGER boost of power for an instant, just more power consistently over time..

The larger point I was trying to make is, earth apparently wont risk 'earth' or its resources to rescue 80 people, but will risk the entire population of our Langaran allies for those 80 people. Even if they were successful the premise is still kind of goofy.

This is human Nature.. we are more than willing to risk something if it won't hurt us directly.

Speaking of that episode... I always wondered why we never tried to get to the Ida galaxy and explore that place like we did with Pegasus and Destiny.

Didn't thor say they had to leave it cause the Reps took it over?

oh, another thing-- this was flat out the greatest use of the stones i've ever seen!

Woolsey-"Please at least read the inscription on the bottom of the stone!" I lol'd so hard hahaha

Most efficient way to take over a place... I wonder who came up with it?

1.) For starters, why bring in McKay and doing nothing with him and not focus on him? We should of learned or got something about Atlantis as hello this was our only shot to do it and hey it could of been a nice gift to those angry Atlantis fans to maybe watch and bring up some ratings cause at the time of filming i dont think Universe was canceled.

How can you say not use him? Just cause he didn't mention Atlantis does not mean he got sidelined.. He was imo one of the biggest parts OF the episode.
Would you say they did nothing with Daniel in First contact/Lost tribe just cause he failed to mention anything about SG1, Hammond, the SGC etc??

What about the Super Gate? have they even tried that?

Cause we don't have a supergate on the otherside to connect to.

I felt this should have been a two-parter. It would have allowed more time to develop the story and have fun character interactions (Rush and McKay). Up until the last 8 minutes I honestly thought this was going to be a two-parter, then it just got lame. I'd have to agree with glennh73 We don't need half an episode of Rush and Perry in bed. While its nice to see relationships grow, what happens in the bedroom should stay in the bedroom.

Perhaps they initially planned on it being a 2 parter, but with the cancellation, they had to cut it down to 1 ep.

They have jumped a smaller gate to the bigger gate as the small Gate in Peg was connected to the big one so your wrong.

And all that did was create an outgoing wormhole in the Supergate.. Since there is nothing to connect it to where Destiny is, that would be pointless.

Continued next post

[traylormatt]

Ha come one. Young wasn't an idiot, he wanted to save Telford/Rush.

And you can't know that they didn't know what was going on. They could have spies in the SGC who have told them what they did and what their plans would be etc.

Like you said, they could set up different defenses. Hey if they cant make a proper iris, they could always just set something up, big and heavy and hard, a foot away from the gate so everyone knocks themselves out as soon as they go through. At the very least they break their arms and legs or ribs etc.