'Malice' (208) General Discussion

[Commander Zelix]

This episode had its flaws but it was easily the best episode yet.
Scott and Greer could have acted more like soldiers instead of wandering and talking to Rush while a Sniper was gunning for them.

Yeah, I'm sure the military advisers didn't approved this script. But obviously, it was done that way for dramatic purpose.

[Meshakhad]

I would like to see them bring Ginn back, so long as they do it well. Carson's return on SGA would be a good model:
1. There had been plenty of time to mourn him and get over, so it came as a genuine surprise.
2. The method of resurrection wasn't contrived.
3. It fit into the storyline, and they didn't do an entire episode of "The Resurrection of Carson Beckett".

So, how they could bring Ginn back:
1. Wait until Season Three.
2. Find a plausible way. The only one I can think of is an alternate universe.
3. Make it a part of a larger AU episode. Maybe they encounter an alternate Destiny where the Lucian Alliance got there first.

Do I want Ginn back? Yes. But I don't want it done at the cost of shoddy writing.

[MechaThor]

I am not sure if it was just Eli trying to hide his pain or not, but in this episode I am starting to get the feeling that deep down his very similar to Rush, and actually thinks himself better than the overs, who just "slow him down". Could be an interesting development to watch. Maybe he starts to get power hungry from the control room, while Rush gets more distant?

[garhkal]

Soon as that herd showed up on screen, it was obvious what was coming. Still, very awesome take-down.

It was obvious, but still fun to watch.. Though my only 2 quips with it. Rush saw Simeon around a 1/4 of the way across that open part, and the herd over a ways away. HOW the heck did he get on their other side to plant the explosives, THEN make i back to his position to start shooting.
The other is why did simeon not use his own gun to try and push them around him?

amazing performances by Robert Carlyle and David Blue! This ep is a turning point for Eli I believe..

I would LOVE it if next years awards (gemini) both are in the running for an award.. going head to head.

and poor Rush that is the 2nd women he loved that he has lost.

So is he becoming the carter of SGU?

I love this episode because its something we don't see Rush. This shows off Rush's emotional side.

It was badass seeing him both in revenge mode,, and remorseful mode.
Especially since he (iirc) admitted to scott it is his fault for bringing her aboard the ship.

Simeon kills Ginn so she would not give information, do you really think Simeon is going to tell them?

It wasn't meant to make sense. WE knew he would rather die than give it up..
BUT the powers that be had to make the chance to get him cause he MIGHT..
Its why IRL we capture so many Al'queda and Taliban.. just cause they MAY give us intel, though more likely they will just wait til we release them and then go back to doing bad stuff..

Yes. After some some time with Greer.

Na.. Put teal'c on him.

A great episode. I can't believe that they brought Robert Knepper on, barely used him and killed him off so quickly. They could have used any actor for this role.

Na. No one else to me, would have done a good job of being so jerk to everyoen else then so bad ass on the ship.

I half-expected Rush to eject the magazine trying to kill Simeon, but that's McKay comedy and it wouldn't fit. Rush is still a terrible shot, though. I've shot guns only a few times, but even the first time I could hit a man-sized target somewhere from that distance. Rush had the perfect setup time to start, too. Then again, he was trying to draw Simeon in, and that stampede was worth it.

IMO that is the only reason he was off.. He knew it would lure simeon in closer to the "Kill zone".

The Greer thing was a joke. But if we want to be serious its a good possibility Simeon wouldn't break but its also possible he would break given time. We wouldn't know until we tried.

Plus how do we know what info he gave would have been correct. He was on both Ginn and varro's case for telling the truth.. So why would HE tell..

Since you brought up SGA, oh man, Major Davis is going to kill me. But this episode reminded a little bit of "The Eye" when Sheppard went on a killing spree when he thought Weir was dead. Kolya = Simeon all the way! Robert Davi and Robert Knepper are best in these bad guy roles.

Diff there is Shep at least was military.. rush to our knowledge has never had any mil training..

You know, the easy thing to do would be to mine the gate and platform. THis could do a couple of things, let people explode as the step on to the ramp, and known down the gate to render it useless.

Perhaps he didn't know hat the gate would stop working with it being on it's side.. Or he realized his amt of boom stuff would be insufficient to do squat.

So for someone who hasn't seen the episode and won't until Hulu puts it up in 30 days. What was Simeons kill count, from the live discussion you'd think he killed the entire crew. I heard something about Park, James, Greer, and a bunch of other background characters getting blown up or shot.

2 crew and Ginn dead on the ship, Perry dead on earth.. 3 wounded on the ship and 4 more on the planet.

I cant believe Simeon missed Greer, a non moving target, with a sniper scope when they were all just standing there with Rush and Scott.

From how i know the enemy works when outmanned, you go to WOUND one target to take 2 out of the equasion. 1 wounded and 1 to carry them away.. That is imo why he shot to wound.

8+9+9 = 26 hours that Rush went without food or sleep. I'm surprised he even managed to walk. I know, there were probably power bars in the backpack, and maybe he took a nap on the way back. So it's more of a nitpick.

I swear i saw him limping a little and otherwise actiig like he was knackered out.. especially how he dropped to his knees in shear exhaustion when he got to the gate.

Scott obviously was beginning to understand Rush, about the distrust for Young and why he kept the bridge secret. It was surprising to hear that from him, and hear him talk about the need to work together, but kudos to him for doing so. First time in a long time I started to admire his character again.

It was Interesting to say the least that both Young and scott seem to now understand why Rush did it. BUT also great that Greer still does not trust him.

I loved how the stampede took care of that Lucian Alliance monster and how Rush gave him the coupe D grace which honestly was merciful of him, he could have just left the SOB to rot there unable to move and defenseless so predators would slowly eat him alive, that would have been a fit end for the maniac, but they would not have been able to show it on TV either I suppose. Oh well, heck of an episode, a perfect 10 out of 10 on this one, and poor Eli.

It would have been more nasty of rush to have done just that. BUT was not as immediate and carthic to him as putting one in the head was.

Yes, they most likely were Lucian Alliance mines. But his/her point was, even for the LA they would have quite a narrow usefulness when you are boarding a space vessel. Although, maybe Lucian Alliance Soldier Basic Training has a "Booby Trapping a Hostage"-course.. And our military space teams wouldn't leave Atlantis/SGC without their stock of C4.

Maybe they brought them aboard to use as 'door openers'..

The Greater Good.

It was great, but not as good as the greater good...

I actually got the same vibe from Volker. Ever since Simeon insulted her and he came to her defense, I got the feeling he had a thing for her. When Park got back from the planet, I was wondering if Volker was going to say something to her.

I wonder what greer will say if she is bonking volkar.. BUT it also gives another reason he stood up for her when simeon said somethin a few eps back.

The look on Simeon's face when him and Rush were shooting at each other was shocking.

Simeon must have been pleased that Rush had bad aim.

To me, it was more of a "Im gonna enjoy beating your dumb ass".

Young is such a moron for risking his people's lives to capture Simeon alive because he has valuable information, blah, blah.

How is he a bad leader doing what homeland security told him to do?

While Rush single handedly brings down a guy that just embarassed the SGC.

Well, he did crack the kino remote telling other remotes where it is at

Well he planned to blow her up or at least use to stall the others from immediately chasing him... He was just thinking somewhat smart, you know, trying to gain an advantage by planting the bomb.

That is a standard mil tactic. Use one to keep others occupied...

Speaking of Simeon, he just became one of my favorite Stargate villains. It's always a more powerful story when the villain is an actual threat that actually succeeds at killing a lot of people. The heroes in Stargate have spent a lot of time running from bad guys that never manage to do any actual harm, and instead of going that route they went the exact opposite; Simeon was the one running and still managed to take a few of them with him.

He joins the few, the proud.. with kolya... the graduates of villian academy.

Bi-Pedal with smaller front appendages, about 2 times the height of humans, etc...

Those were 4 legged..

" It’s the same answer I give those who ask: “Now that Rush has control of the ship, couldn’t he just turn Destiny around and fly it back to Earth?” Again, theoretically, yes. If they flew non-stop in FTL without stopping for food or water, they could probably make it back in approximately 50 000 years."

So just a hop, skip and a jump or two.

Now this is Stargate.

They've really turned it around this season.

Classic gate use, baddie killing and drama... What more could we ask for.

all people are talking about rush...hell i like his character, but well i am more concerned with eli then with rush, hell eli has only one person on the ship he can really talk to (chloe - and with her changing...well he will be alone in way, soon)

Compared to rush eli has a LOT more friends... Scott, young, parks, greer, brody etc.. MORE people trust and like him than do rush.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Yeah, I'm sure the military advisers didn't approved this script. But obviously, it was done that way for dramatic purpose.

Don't see why they wouldn't. The episode showed the consequences of standing out in the open arguing when Greer took a round. But contrary to popular belief soldiers aren't machines who never put a foot wrong, people make mistakes and it's often how soldiers die.

As for the ep itself I thoroughly enjoyed it. Simple yet perfect, it was thrilling from start to finish. Nice to have a heavily militarily episode once in a while. Also nice to have a show where gunfights consist of people actually using their weapons in single shot mode, rather than following the standard Hollywood convention of everyone blazing away endlessly on fully automatic.

[ciannwn]

I would like to see them bring Ginn back, so long as they do it well.

If they bring Ginn back for Ginn fans they should bring Riley back for Riley fans.

[Krystal]

It was a good episode but I have to admit that I was expecting something more. After building Simeon's character we didn't see much of him in this episode. It was all do from a distance. I was really looking for a confrontation between him and Greer but with Rush taking him out. And is a shame because he's acting was solid, I was waiting for something like the Tanith & Teal'c confrontation, more action involved. One thing I don't understand is the slow motion explosions. That was so weird and take it out what could have been a great explosion. I have to admit the stampede thing was cool and different a great finale but it would have been awesome to see more action before it between Rush and Simeon. For me it was a good episode that could have been just awesome but never deliver entirely. And definitely a misused of a great villain.

[Sp!der]

Its true T-Bag was not used that much in SG:U and I always said the he was a waste of money spending (sorry!) but he did not contributed much to the story like LDP etc. etc. so i wished they would have spend money to something else. Other wise I loved this episode! Everything was perfect, to sad that you are leaving or leaved the franchise cooper, I always loved your episodes!!! I think this is one of my favourites of the whole franchise! and they did use the gate this time xD (just kiddin!), I hope we do not get canceled especially after seeing that they are capable of doing such awesome episodes!

[myhelix]

for me the episode was a clear touchdown, especially Robert Carlyle´s acting! Give the man Emmys, Golden Globe´s, Geminis, Oscars, better now than never!

Also the episode was quite a sample of thing reversed. In "Cloverdale" Scott saw Rush as "Justice of the Peace" in "Malice" Scott was the one comforting Rush playing confessor
In "Air III" we saw Greer attacking Rush from behind, in this episode it was vice versa.
Also Eli was getting snappy to Young just like Rush always do it with the Colonel, and Eli ask him if he was able to live with the consequences when he manage to stop the clock, feels like something Rush would do.

What I love:
TJ trying to comfort Eli and Rush
Rush rage, hitting the wall
Simeon's cold blooded escape
Rush trying to disarm the bomb on Dr. Parks back
The location was beautiful.
I loved the slow mo explosion´s
Everything in terms of Rush and Scott in this episode (the fighting, the comforting, the preaching)
The creatures on the planet
The moment when Rush walks with Greer and Scott trying hard not to fall apart in front of the two but finally break down crying. Confessing the guilt he feels about Perry´s dead.
I love the little notion that Greer trying hard "not to be there" when Rush starts to sob.
Young´s little speech to Eli
Eli getting a bit pissed at Volker "What are you doing" reminds me again of Rush.
Simeon´s pleasure to taunt Rush about Mandy
Chloe´s transformation (I hope they can reverse the alien manipulating somehow?)
Rush trick Simeon into a trap, I really like to know if Rush is just very bad at aim or if that was part of his plan?
The No Nonsense kill, "I have information"...bang. I cheered inside.
His lonely walk back to the Gate (the music was fantastic), seeing in horror that nobody was there and then the glimpse of relief in his eyes to see that they don´t left him on the planet, again.
Scott´s "Are you felling better now?" and Rush´s empty look.

[Commander Zelix]

IFrom how i know the enemy works when outmanned, you go to WOUND one target to take 2 out of the equasion. 1 wounded and 1 to carry them away.. That is imo why he shot to wound.

I don't think we're talking about the same moment. I'm not talking about the moment Greer was wounded but before that moment.

[nx01a]

Malicious intent...

The Good:
>"You were expecting 'Stairway to Heaven'?"
>The scientists were asking very smart questions in the beginning, doubting Rush.
>Young dismissing Rush.
>I wonder if Rush will blame Young for Amanda's death. Young DID call him away at that critical moment. It would be ironic if Young 'forgives' Rush for Riley's death but Rush is angry at Young for Amanda's.
>Even when Rush is on your side, he's still keeping secrets... and those secrets still get people hurt [James and her team].
>In addition to all the lying and scheming, now Rush has gotten Greer shot. Greer is going to have it out for him even more now.
>Rush can't hit the broad side of a barn, but he CAN out-think Lucian Alliance thugs.
>Rush picking up Scott's pack and moving along.
>Rush finally breaking down. Scott offering him water.
>Rush had no malicious intent in his actions re: controlling Destiny. Unfortunately, they left a door wide open for Simeon to be very malicious.
>Rush cares more about personal revenge than the lives of millions of people... much like he cares more about Destiny's 'mission' than the lives of the people aboard Destiny.
>This episode really was a Rush vehicle, wasn't it?
>I wonder if everyone who went to the planet will have tans for the next few weeks, like after Air pt 3.
>Cute, albeit obviously CGI aliens. When Simeon's walking across that final stretch of desert, I said to myself, "Self... What if Simeon gets left on the planet and ends up face-to-face with one of those animals... and it's really hungry?" And then Rush saw the herd and I was like, STAMPEDE!
>Chloe... Altering the ship's course. Just like the blue aliens want her to in order to bring it back to them.
>TJ. Poor thing. I would have said earlier this season that she needs some Varro loving to make her feel better, but... [see The Bad]
>Poor Park. Brave at the 'end', though.
>I was shouting at the screen, "Use your glasses, Rush!" And he did.
>Rush recovered the other remote. Nice. Can't leave those lying around.
>I wonder if Volker will ask for military training now.
>Eli ordering the others around. I like it!
>Everybody got some screen time this episode.
>Kawooshes never cease to make me smile.
>Rest In Pieces Simeon.

The Bad:
>I swear to whatever put that message in the cosmic background radiation that, if I don't see a beautiful and significant Lucian Alliance space battle/attack on Earth later this season, I will be supremely ticked off.
>RIP Ginn and Dr. Perry.
>I don't think the Eli/Ginn relationship had enough screen time for us to be really invested in them, or for us to really understand Eli's rage. At least one more episode of them being lovey-dovey would have been enough.
>Varro KNEW how dangerous Simeon was, his attitude... and STILL didn't think to particularly warn Young about him? All the remaining LA should be put off on the nearest planet. Sorry, TJ. No Varro love for you.
>And why weren't the stones used to bring in more doctors? Ah. Dramatic triage effect.
>They let Chloe sit at a console unsupervised?! Seriously?!
>Are Park, Volker and Brody totally useless as scientists?!?!

The Ugly:
>Why did I hear rattlesnake sound effects? I realize it's a desert planet, but... And what was that bug-like twittering effect they used ever so often?

The Verdict:
>I hold no malice against this episode.

[pjt]

>I don't think the Eli/Ginn relationship had enough screen time for us to be really invested in them, or for us to really understand Eli's rage. At least one more episode of them being lovey-dovey would have been enough.

It was enough for me.

This episode was great, but now I'm just not sure I really wanted to watch it. I knew last week what was coming, and... I think it was a bit too much. It was a great episode, since it made me fell like this, but I don't like to feel like this. I don't want to feel like this. It would have been stupid of me to think they were to live happily ever after, but I wasn't expecting and execution this quick. And I mean it literally.

I might peek into the next episode, but if they are keeping this up, I'm sure as hell gonna skip this show. Not really escapism anymore, and so far it was no matter how gritty it got from time to time.

I think I'm too old to feel like crap after an episode...

[Jumper_One]

nate writes: “1.) How much time had past between The greater good and Malice? Was it just a few minutes or hours?”

Answer: The action is continuous. Think of it as one, long episode.

“3.) I may be mistaken, but didn’t you imply in a recent mailbag that Ginn isn’t really dead? Was that just to keep us in suspense or is there more to come from Ginn in the form of a vision for Eli, like Rush and his wife?”

Answer: Did I imply she wasn’t really dead or did I imply we’d see her again? I don’t recall.

Ben42 writes: “Do those bison/velociraptor hybrids have a name?”

Answer: Lenny, Phil, Margie, Loretta, and Maurice – those were the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Audrey writes: “So what’s up with Varro lying to Young and co., when he says he knows nothing of the attack on Earth? In Pathogen we see him have a talk with Simeon, and its sorta implied that they all know about it.”

Answer: No, I think it’s pretty clear in that scene that he and other Lucian Alliance members are offering Homeworld Command information while Simeon is offering disinformation. The Alliance, as the name implies, is made up of various factions. Simeon and Ginn belonged to the same faction, the group planning the rumored attack on Earth.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...second-season/

[garhkal]

I don't think we're talking about the same moment. I'm not talking about the moment Greer was wounded but before that moment.

In that case i thikn they were more warning shots...

>Even when Rush is on your side, he's still keeping secrets... and those secrets still get people hurt [James and her team].

Rewatch.. HE was the only one who tried to warn them off.

>In addition to all the lying and scheming, now Rush has gotten Greer shot. Greer is going to have it out for him even more now.

His dumb ass was the one who stood up and made himself the target not rush..

>Rush recovered the other remote. Nice. Can't leave those lying around.

I think it was more he hoped that with both coming back someone would realize it was him.. not simeon.

>And why weren't the stones used to bring in more doctors? Ah. Dramatic triage effect.

maybe they were.. off screen.

[stevilevi]

I like that we saw "Malice" from both sides of the fence. Simeon's loyalties clearly lie with the Lucian Alliance. Even on the far side of the universe, this is not going to waver for him (unlike the other LA members who have decided it's best to cooperate with Earth). So not only has he had to watch his fellow comrades be killed in battle or deserted on a barren planet, but he's had to watch his remaining comrades compromise their allegiances. I can see why, when given a window, he was going to take action to ensure the LA would ultimately succeed. He even says it himself.

"I understand revenge, your people have killed enough of mine, people I cared about"

I love how SGU brings aspects like this out of their characters