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    Originally posted by themyst View Post
    Oh, but I disagree. Red shirts don't get that much screen time and dialogue, do they?

    I really don't understand why they write him in so much to the point where the episode seems to revolve around him, and then totally ignore him as if he doesn't exist in subsequent episodes. I would just prefer more consistency with his character, that's all.
    He's had all of 5 minutes of dialog in all of season 2????????????

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      Originally posted by morrismike View Post
      He's had all of 5 minutes of dialog in all of season 2????????????
      Well as the episodes are only about 43 minutes long and there are quite a few main characters to begin with, you could probably say that about a lot of the crew. I'm looking at air time. How about the first couple of episodes when he first appeared and him and TJ were obviously checking each other out? And then he was helping her in the infirmary - then in another episode he helped with instructions on how to diffuse the bomb on earth - then of course there was The Hunt episode. I think just the appearances I could recall off the top of my head would disqualify him as being called a red shirt.
      Last edited by themyst; April 24, 2011, 06:36 AM. Reason: typo

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        I guess he's a recurring, like Becker and Riley are/were, or recurring like Wray is ( she quite often doesn't show up in the episode at all. For example I believe she wasn't in Hope and Seizure ) and like dr. Weir in SGA.

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          I really liked this one.

          10/10
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            Originally posted by garhkal View Post
            I thought she went off world in time, life, and faith
            In light she was on the shuttle. But I don't recall her leaving destiny for anything. (didn't want to be left behind?) In faith she stayed ship side. Commenting on it was a mistake NOT to go. Life was her earthside via stones. She probably has the most stone time of any of the crew. But outside of the shuttle in light, she hasn't physically left the ship. Until now. Even in the LA episodes, she was still on ship playing doctor, while everyone else got evicted planet side for the most part.

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              Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
              cause she is an IOA Representive.
              SO.. what's that have to do with going planet side?

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                Those are supposed to sit behind a desk, not go through a gate General hammond only went through the gate in SG-1 season 7 IIRC. and similarly I believe Woolseys first time through the gate was only in season 9 of SG-1.

                They prefer desks to wormholes

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                  Divided. Again.

                  It's not often that you can see all of your ideas and decisions play out over thousands of years. Fortunately, we have science fiction, and 'meeting the descendants/ancestors' is a standard science fiction offering.

                  From season 1, the divisions that have existed amongst the crew developed and became sharpest in the episode “Divided”. While there were variations and degrees, the crew fell along two sides: those that chose to follow Young and those that chose to follow Rush.

                  Those divisions weren't simply a matter of whether one belonged to the military or the civilians, but deepened to a way of looking at the basic questions of life, the mission at hand, and the future. In 2000 years, the alternate crew of the Destiny has had a lot of time to allow those divisions to solidify and grow large over the years and in this way, show the current crew of the Destiny how all of their viewpoints and beliefs could play out over time for both good and ill.

                  Like the current crew of the Destiny, the Novans are also essentially 'good', although not as good as they'd like to be. They have the luxury of eliding over the less perfect aspects of their ancestors, elevating them to the status of perfect, heroic and noble beings. In this way, the Novans deal with the original Destiny crew much in the way that people from earth dealt with the Ancients, and I believe that is the point we are supposed to take away from this episode. That we are the descendants of the Ancients, looking back on what was best and filtering out the less flattering. Through the years, we played the biggest game of telephone, with the 'story' changing over the years, to the point where, if the original story appeared, we would scarcely recognize it.

                  Still, there are some things that remain unchanged and it is in the core elements of the characters, of the 'sides', which became the political realities, that we see a reflection of 'Young' and 'Rush'.

                  Young's people created a home, Tinerra, in lieu of the one they would never be able to reach. They built a community with some enviable qualities, voiced by the settlers on the new planet when they increased their own hardship in order to help the Destiny crew. They have technological advancement but it hasn't overwhelmed their essential humanity. Those that lined up behind Young, both during “Divide” and now, tend to view the mission as getting home first, wherever that home ends up being located. This group looks towards itself, to its humanness, to further their survival and community.

                  While Alternate Rush never made it onto Novus, he is there fully in spirit. It is Rush's people that view the mission as more science and technology based. They look outward rather than to each other, waiting for Rush and the Destiny to come back and save them. In Futura, Brody and those that make up the Rush viewpoint have put their hopes in a man they have, by turns, deified and demonized. Rush becomes a near-god figure, and while they appear to worship his dream, they fear him and what he's imagined to be capable of. Not alone in vilification, Eli joins Rush, as the man responsible for stranding the alternate crew, through his star-dialling. In short, a society where technological advances are something to strive for, and something to fear.

                  Seeing these divisions play out in their alternates isn't easy for some of the crew. Rush, Brody and Eli seem especially troubled about the actions and beliefs of the alternates. In Twin Destinies, Eli took responsibility for the actions that led to the “deaths” of the other crew. To find that they lived is a wonderful thing but in the ongoing condemnation for the action, it is another stark reminder that science has consequences.

                  Both Brody and Eli have, by turns, supported “Young's side” and “Rush's side” depending on what they believed was right at the time but Brody seems to be quiet and reserved about having created, in essence, a society that deified Rush, in the hope that Rush would come back for them all. It must feel awkward now. And of course there's that name Futura. A font, of all things. Not that Novus Mundus is much better.

                  Rush appears to be the most deeply affected. Having never made it to the planet, it is the 'idea' of Rush and what people thought of him that made it there. Unlike the others, he never gets to see his children, never gets to see what he's created, only what's created in his name, and it doesn't sit well with him. While there are lines scattered throughout the episode about not telling Rush that he was a god, I believe the idea of deification would offend him, given his own ideas on such matters. To be seen as a demon isn't much better and, just as Eli is served a constant reminder of his blame in stranding them all, in demonizing Rush, it's a continued reminder that he's not to be trusted, that his motives and actions are questionable and that, finally, in putting their faith in Rush returning for them, he has let them down again.

                  It isn't all uncomfortable, however. To survive, to make a home, a community, is a wonderful outcome for people that will never reach Earth. The simple delight from people like Eli, Wray, Scott and Greer at having children, families, was touching and sincere. It is human nature to want to leave something behind, some mark that we were here. The current crew fit in well with their descendants and even with the passing of so much time, the essence of what they are and what they believe remains true. In wanting to save the Novans, and in the pure joy at being rescued, it's proof that the two groups haven't changed in this regard.

                  The most wonderful development is the renewed relationship between Young and TJ, or at least their alternates. For whatever reason, Varro is nowhere to be found and TJ and Young have picked up where they left off, having the first child born on Novus. Getting to see their relationship, even an alternate relationship, is a powerful moment for the two on Destiny, given the loss of their first child. With the first pregnancy, Young had so much on his plate that he wasn't there for TJ. Not yet divorced, he was distant and later, so torn up that TJ turned to another man, Varro. But TJ loved him for some reason and I believe that in getting to Novus, she found that again; she got to see Young as a better man and for both of them on the ship getting to watch this play out, it will be sure to have consequences, as their feelings for each other have remained strong.

                  It is this idea of Young as a better man that affects not only TJ and their relationship but the colony as a whole and it can be summed up quite well by Young himself:

                  YOUNG: I remember when we first came here was ... well, it feels like a long time ago now ... we had *very* little. It was really hard, but I think it brought us together. Everything we have here, we built with our own hands. And now we stand at a precipice. Some of us want to divide. Sure, yes, we have our issues and we have our differences, but we can't lose perspective. As your leader, I may not have been perfect, I know that, but I know that I tried my best and that I persevered. Now, as a group, we will survive. We will prosper as long as we can remember above anything else that we need each other, and we need to *help* each other.

                  These words resonate with Young, which is clear in his expression but what he wants to do and what he's able to do are very different things. This is an echo of the stairway speech from season one, where he presses the frightened survivors that they will make it if they stick together. This is Young at his best and is true of a great deal of what drives Young – that he is hopeful and good but not stupidly so.
                  It is perhaps fortunate that the choice is taken out of his hands by the actions of the drones and that the crew must take on the alternates as it forces Young to remain true to those principles. When Scott and Eli find a way to call the Destiny, Young isn't left with the worst choice but can do what I believe his heart would do and while the Novans have perhaps had their visions of a perfect leader dashed, in the end, he still did what was right.

                  Lastly, a note on filming locations. A set could have easily have been created somewhere but in choosing the real life location of Fort Langley to film the “Young colony” sections, this touched a spot in my heart. Fort Langley was built in 1827 and while it is currently a tourist attraction, it's a reminder that we all started a little smaller, by people that carved their existence out of the wilderness. The Lower Mainland has grown up a lot in the past 170 years or so and coming from the soaring glass and steel towers of Vancouver, it's hard to imagine that we could have ever lived in a place like the fort, but we this place was built on that smaller society. I have to wonder if we live up to their ideals, or if they'd live up to ours?

                  Rating: 8/10
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                  SGU-RELATED FANART | IN YOUNG WE TRUST | FANDUMB

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                    I didn't know it was filmed in a real fort.. man that is some connection with history.

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                      Originally posted by The Destiny View Post
                      Those are supposed to sit behind a desk, not go through a gate General hammond only went through the gate in SG-1 season 7 IIRC. and similarly I believe Woolseys first time through the gate was only in season 9 of SG-1.

                      They prefer desks to wormholes
                      You don't RC. Remember the moment "Yeeeeeeeeee-haaaaaaw!!!!!!!"
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                        Originally posted by boeli View Post
                        the best on SGU so far, the should have done more.
                        I agree. It reminded me of a classic episode of SG-1. Especially with the people evacuating thru the gate. I find it amazing that in one episode I would be so attached to a people I just met. But my brain is going crazy with the possibilities of what will happen to them in the next few episodes, or what could, etc.

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                          1. That one guy looked more like Scott that you'd have thought possible after 2000 years.

                          2. Also surprised the drones were brought back.

                          3. Should be surprised that the descendants split along Young vs Rush lines but am not - have little faith in humanity as a whole in whatever corner of the universe.

                          4. Chloe and Park...OK...fine...if that's what you want to stick inside you knock yourselves out...

                          5. Very interesting that they didn't completely write off the A-B timeline Destiny.

                          Solid ep!
                          I SURF FOR THE FREEDOM!

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                            Originally posted by themeatcleaver View Post
                            for real! i think they even stole some music from SG1 for one of the first village scenes
                            Goldsmith stole from himself, that frakkin thief

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                              Pretty cool ep, but then I've liked most of them so far.
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                                Good episode, although I was play about half attention.

                                Dang these new Gates sure aren't durable, one shot by an alien ship, and boom, a hole, and your stuck on the planet your on.

                                Tomorrow, the conclusion, so who exactly did everyone hook up with?
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