'Alliances' (213) General Discussion

[General Jumper One]

The funny thing is I'm usually really critical of sgu but I liked this episode. I found the wray/greere story pretty good and the discussion of what the rest of people see this intelligence as a good side plot and how dangerous the idea is.

I think the only negative was the la terrorism link because it hasn't been well established. Really wish they instead had the goauld or ori fanatics because the LA doesn't make as much sense or play as well.

Tim

It makes more sense to use the LA because for those who haven't seen SG1 they don't very much about the Goa'uld or the Ori

[timmciglobal]

That's only because the show explained them to it's viewers. You could of dumbed down the ori threat as religious extremists who are attacking us for perceived crimes against them. You would of had a more compelling enemy and one that made sense to existing sg1/sga fans vs the laughable LA.

Tim

[jsonitsac]

That's only because the show explained them to it's viewers. You could of dumbed down the ori threat as religious extremists who are attacking us for perceived crimes against them. You would of had a more compelling enemy and one that made sense to existing sg1/sga fans vs the laughable LA.

Tim

See, I think the LA in SG-1 was kind of laughable. But I think they've done a better job with them in SGU. Also, going with an "old" villain like the Goa'uld or the Ori seems kind of un-creative to me actually. Just relying on the same-old-same-old. The LA kind of reminds me of what the Ferengi went through on Star Trek Deep Space 9. Yes, the race was created for the Next Generation, but they were laughable and ultimately the TNG writers gave up on them. When Deep Space 9 started they included a Ferengi as a main character, altered or created new back story for them and as a result they became a fairly respectable Star Trek race.

[lopo30]

well by this episode we can see what can be sg1 movie about ... fight ageinst the LA ...
btw if there is a LA then where is vampires ? lucians are like warevolf's in mythology and they fight with vamps so vamps were goa'uld ?

but still is strange to see LA attack earth while earth have so many defence methods like atlantis and few space ships ... and they cant even peem the bomb out from there while they managed to peem full building to space in sg1 series and in sgu they need to disarm the bomb what is just stuped

[Kaiphantom]

It has nothing to do with the Lucian Alliance needing space and everything to do with the fact that Earth is trying to exterminate them.

Source?

Because this episode pretty much says that Earth didn't pay as much attention to the LA as they probably should have. And I can't recall any mention of Earth trying to exterminate the LA. Sure, they had an agent or two infiltrate them, but just because you spy on your neighbors, doesn't mean you plan to wipe them out. We scuffle with them occasionally, but nothing too major.

And you're forgetting that Earth doesn't have the resources to wipe out the LA. We're one planet, against who knows how many clans of brigands, pirates, thieves, etc.

Lastly, you took my comment about space incorrectly. When I say space is big, I mean there are millions of planets out there, rich in resources, as well as human and alien populations that Earth is still not aware of. There is no need for the LA to concern themselves with Earth. Their biggest enemy is each other (clans trying to take over other clans), a clan leader's underlings who might conspire to take over, or planets like Hebredon that are more advanced and bigger in some ways than Earth.

The LA attack Earth only because the writers want them to. Only because the writers want a threat to endanger Earth.

The sad fact is, they don't need an LA storyline in this. In fact, it would have been easier to do SGU without them, especially considering their "trying to pull in new viewers" rationale. Using the LA is relying on stuff the viewer should already know. Destiny itself should have the potential for enough story.

The only potential antagonistic thing I'd want to see on Earth now, is the reveal of the Stargate to the general population. And in some way, that could endanger the stone visits, and drive up an ultimate plot for the Destiny crew to discover that message and reveal it to Earth, thus uniting mankind at the end. Hell, having Earth descend into some chaos would actually interest the LA, since it would be a rare opportunity to infiltrate and take over, to acquire the juicy tech.

But we all know the writers will never go there.

Edit: And I just figured out a brilliant way to write the story and get funding for more seasons. Given the leaks the US government has had lately, it is impossible for knowledge of the SG program to go secret this long. The producers could talk to the US government and say they could introduce a plot line where some disgruntled member of the army puts lives at risk by revealing the SG program to the world with proof, portraying him as a villain. It would be great propaganda against Manning and Assange, heh. (Even though I personally support Manning and Assange). I bet the US government would buy into that.

[Shadow_7]

Actually, I think Tellford was in on it. He might have planned this coz he knew Wray and Greer would be on Earth. He hates them and it's a good opportunity and he knows that they wouldn't be able to stop the bomb.

I tend to agree on this. At least for Wray.

It could be that the LA is attacking because of what happened to Kiva. But then again the only one to come back from Destiny was Telford. Everyone else has only had stone contact and assumed precautions taken to avoid using non-earthlings for that task. Basically the only way for the LA to know what happened to their people is through Telford. Post Post-brainwashing / unwashing. Unless somehow the dropped off LA members found a way to talk to home. Or the remaining LA people have a way. Lots of unanswered questions for sure. But not unexplainable questions.

It would be nice to have a little faster paced story, most of the time. And less mystery / unanswered questions. Baring a highly predictable scenario, which a lot of past episodes have been. I liked the old methods of multiple story lines, and we're not as simple as season 1 was, but they could have thrown something in there besides just stoners and those who talk to them.

I'm unclear if the stones are now normally in the DC area. But I'd buy that they brought the stones to the senators, as a last minute / one time thing. Hence no shields or other advanced tech / protection of said singular building. But I haven't been paying much attention the that. IMO they're still in some room in cheyenne mountain. Except for this episode.

[caribsci]

The LA is a big threat to earth.They may not have as much advanced tech as earth ,but they do have more resources as eath is just one planet compared to the many planets that make up the LA.They are also experts at guerilla warfare and sneak attacks and a lot of them are decidated to their missions whether it means their death or not.Lots of Tauri are still scared to sacrifice themselves for ''the greater good''.
No one thought it was crazy when just 4 tauri members gated to one of apophis's ship in order to stop the Goul'd from attacking earth(come on now....4 people and only 2 of them were really soldiers namely Oneill and Teal'c)............ even when Brat'ac was asking them about their powerful ships..lol.all Daniel could muster was that we had shuttles.But we attacked these super advanced beings with just adrenalin..............now the LA got ships...weapons scientists that understand goul'd and ancient tech.....we keep messing with their cassa pipeline and then we ask why would they attack?

[leiasky]

IMO they're still in some room in cheyenne mountain. Except for this episode.

The stones have been shown in multiple episodes to be in the Pentagon with HomeWorld Command.

I don't think, at this point, the SGC is located in the mountain anymore. I think it's been moved to HWC.

[Replicator Todd]

The stones have been shown in multiple episodes to be in the Pentagon with HomeWorld Command.

I don't think, at this point, the SGC is located in the mountain anymore. I think it's been moved to HWC.

I hope the SGC is still at Cheyenne Mountain. Or I will be sad.

[Sp!der]

I loved that episode although it made me miss sg1 or general Hammond at least Richard dean Anderson should be beside Telford at earth. Otherwise it was a great episode and I loved the Greer and wray interactions. Wray is not annoying anymore I loved how she spotted the la spy... More and more I get sad about the cancelation when I see such awesome episodes. I don't understand why the ratings sucks when this was a such a good episode!

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Here's what a 50 megaton blast would to to washington if set off from pentagon. BOOOOOOOM!! ..

[garhkal]

Though I seriously doubt they nuked DC, that's a hell of a cliffhanger to leave us on.

That it was.. makes you wonder what they would have done with the ending HAD they NOT cancelled season 3, or stopped a third SG1 movie.

I really like the new character developments between Wray and Greer. I hope that they don't completely forget about that after this episode .

We can hope they don't. BUT like a lot that has gone on, it might be stuffed on a back burner for now..

I spent the first 20 minutes trying to figure out who the actor playing Covel was. Once I figured it out I felt really stupid for not picking up on it sooner..

See the thread i started on him.. He always plays in comedies, but it was interesting to note he HAS stared in stargate before.. He played Feretti back in the Original film..

Uhg... Another stoner show... But it looks like it might be the last one of those... Assuming that the stones are burried and lost, or the bomb wasn't diffused. Or a half million years until their radioactive signature makes them safe-ish again.

It does make me wonder how they are going to clean them up so they can be used next episode..

Well, that and the radiation didn't have any effect on the stones.

Yes it did.. Thats why they could not disconnect..

I never bought any kind of valid reason for why anyone in the LA would attack Earth. I figured that at least any kind of straight forward ship invasion wouldn't be the way to go, so I reluctantly conceded that terrorist bombing (as floated by several members here) would be the main method.

The problem is.. it still doesn't make sense. The LA loses a ship(can they make more?) and a supply of naquadria(which there seems to be vastly less of that in the universe then Naquadah) and a perfectly good bomb. What does it gain them? Not much. Earth still has ships and off-world bases, and you'd just ticked off a major galaxy power; the same one that took down the Goa'uld!

Stupid, stupid, stupid, and I really hate it when a plot is made to progress through stupidity, whether character stupidity or plot stupidity.

BUT it does serve some purposes.
Look at all the Gou'ald/Ori/Wraith/Replicators. NONE of those made any lasting/massive impact on Earth. Just that one bomb would have out did any of those enemies..
Wiping out DC would seriously have crippled the US. Not just economically (look at how much loses we had from the BP fall out, or the Libyan crisis, or the tsunami in japan etc), but would also have neutered much of our higher ups. THAT and the loss of such a major city to our 'psyche; would be a morale blow.

Other side notes: It's interesting to see Super Chloe is still going strong. She's not as super as she used to be, and I really hate that they had to give her a convenient alien infection to make her useful. But at least she's doing something now, and not just serving the role of an efficient oxygen and carbon dioxide exchanger.

It is great they are making her into a proper character.. Full of ideas and capabilities.. Much like they turned Lee from a 'backround' scientist, to a major player.

And speaking of which, I really feel for those guys. I mean, they've been there all along, perhaps not as brilliant as Eli or Rush, but nevertheless doing a lot of the thankless jobs that helped save everyone's butts. And this episode highlights the issue quite nicely with that, "Um, we work here, too" line, heh. Sorry guys; maybe next time you can get the alien injection that makes you a super genius, thus proving that scifi convenience easily eclipse years of hard work.

It does suck that those two, who to me were instrumental in the past 2 eps having a great aspecting to them, that they were kind of 'overlooked' by the visiting scientist. BUT look at how many times Dr Lee, or Zalenka, were overlooked by others coming into the fray.

The LA are more like a galactic empire than a terrorist organization at this point. You're right they're profit driven, with warlord as leaders, which means an attack on Earth makes all the sense in the world given that the Destiny crew killed one of their commanders daughters, and Earth has (presumably) carried on disrupting their drug trade for no apparent reason.

Plus its never wise to let someone bloody your nose multiple times without some sort of retribution. Think about it. WE just took out one of their bases (where the LA launched their raid onto the destiny from), killed some of their senior leadership and have slowed some of their money making (sg1 season 9 and 10)... Other than the smacking of Iccarus (a hidden base) and the taking of the taking of one of our 304s, what have they really accomplished against us?
This level of counter attack, really bloodies us up, and shows to the LA's enemies they are NOT to be messed with.

Perhaps, but they didn't seem to do much for Jackson when he had his dose.

True, but he was also gotten to with a healing unit a lot longer after from what i remember (and sam was a novice at it).. BUT then again i wonder would have use of a sarcofigi made a difference??

IMO, shouldn't Homeworld Command have shield technology at its disposal? Certainly we have reached that point to be able to put some shields on a few important buildings...

Reasonable.. yes. BUT you have to remember most of the tech we have, we can't use in public, which being HWC is at the pentagon is most definitely in the publics eye..

It wasn't a stupid plot at all, as someone claimed. Had it worked, America's military and political leadership would have been vaporized all at once, and the nation and world would have ground to a halt for a while. Like Wray said, the plan probably wasn't to crash into the Pentagon, it was more likely to land nearby and just leave. Something must have gone wrong on the approach.

Perhaps the radiation screwed up the maneuvering...

Not sure why the LA attacked Homeworld Command. Surely a bomb on top of the SGC would be more ideal and effective(I assume a 70 megaton bomb could penetrate it).

Think about where Chyan mountain is. Now look to the surrounding area. Compare that to the Pentagon in DC.. There is imo a massive difference between the 2 in devastation. And if i was ever to want to attack the amt of devastation caused IS a primary concern.

And why have they still not got a big clocked satellite over the US with site to site beaming.

Thats my only gripe right now.. Why could they not have used the 304 beamers to get Wray/Greer out? OR even better, lock onto the nuke and beam IT out.

I doubt they'd have a shield over the building. I can't see the smarts in it.

Nothing says alien technologiy like a huge energy shield appearing over the pentagon. It's hardly in the middle of nowhere, it would light the place up like a christmas tree "Hi world, we have top secret conspiracy stuff going on here, oh and we have super advanced alien technology".

Precicely. There is just too much visibility on the Pentagon to have done something like install shield generators...

sorry for my (stupid) question, but why is this episode called "Alliances"?

IMO shortened from Lucian Alliance.

Although they could have beamed the bomb, the stones, Wray and Greer, but that is assuming that people outside are ok and also that would kill the fun in the episode, that is if there was an episode left.

And that is assuming the bomb wouldn't have had an affect on locking onto it and beaming it out, like it did in messing up the stones "disengaging" protocols.

can anyone tell me why when the alarm goes off Greer is keeping Camille back not permitting her to run out of the building and he himself is staying behind?

Mil training. First thing you do when you hear an alarm is wait to hear what is going on. Is it a fire alarm? A radiation alarm? An intrusion alarm?

[raptor_jesus]

I'm sorry but this episode is completely bogus with the radiation involved. It seems they managed to get lethal radiation poisoning without showing any symptoms which is just impossible. To get a lethal exposure level, you have to absorb radiation levels of 2 Sieverts or more. However, doing so will also cause vomiting headache and more. In short, it's impossible to recieve a lethal radiation dose without knowing it until the stupid girl who "talked to scientist" reads a geiger counter and tells you that we're all gonna die.

Futhermore, radiation exposure goes up with the amount of time you spend next to the source and the inverse square law says that if you halve the distance to the source, then your radiation exposure per time will go up by a factor of four. So if you got a lethal dose at a few hundred meters from the bomb you will be getting a ridiculous amount of Sieverts when you lounge around next to it having angsty conversation for an hour. If they had really done that they would be falling done dead within minutes, not relaxing without showing any of the signs of radiation exposure: headache, nausea, skin burns, vomiting...

In short, they should have listened to the lucian alliance dude and high taled it out of there. After 10 Sieverts your guaranteed to die but with anything from 2 to 10 sieverts, you have a good chance to die, but it's not a guarnatee. With medical treatment, you might survive. So essentiallly camille killed two people (one of them a senator) because she talked to a scientist once.

<Snipped by Moderator>

[Kilgharrah]

And that is assuming the bomb wouldn't have had an affect on locking onto it and beaming it out, like it did in messing up the stones "disengaging" protocols.

That wasn't radiation. Covel used the radiation as an explanation, but it was really him who sabotaged it.

[morbosfist]

That wasn't radiation. Covel used the radiation as an explanation, but it was really him who sabotaged it.

Covel only sabotaged the enhanced command signal. It is literally impossible for him to have sabotaged it before then, because he never had a chance.