'Subversion' (118) General Discussion

[garhkal]

Poor Young having the nightmare of dealing with his brain washed friend, having to resort to the one and only drastic means of breaking the brain washing, by killing him and hoping he could revive him. The voices of conscience in the form of Daniel earlier and then Camille were ignored for the ultimate good of all in that they found out where the Lucian Alliance's base was.

A nice start to the build up towards the invasion of Destiny!

I am wondering when young found out about that right (bringing someone to the brink of death to wipe their mind of brainwashing)?? Did teal'c write about it in a mission report?

[Matt G]

Midweek, another ep of SGU...

1. Telford really hadn't bet on Young trusting Rush over him had he?

2. And the Lucien Alliance hadn't thought a scientist would be crazy enough to pull this stunt!

3. I see Wray's point...Young was going very off-book here...

4. I'd forgotten exactly where the ep ended.

Again, tasty!

[Lieutenant Sparrow]

Good ep.

Love all the SG-1 in this ep. Seeing Daniel and Jack always puts a smile on my face. And to see Jack acting like his old self is the icing on the cake.

Telford brainwashed to be a spy for the Lucian Alliance. Saw that coming the first time I watched the ep. I knew there was more to him than just being an ass.

Rush being tortured with the Goa'uld stick thing. Reminded me of all the times Teal'c had to endure it.

Young going through extreme measures to get the information from Telford. And Camille being annoying at the same time.

Last two eps and then on with the final season of the rewatch

[garhkal]

That 'tealc' comment makes me wonder who has been tortured more.. Oneill, sam, daniel or tealc?

[jelgate]

That 'tealc' comment makes me wonder who has been tortured more.. Oneill, sam, daniel or tealc?

Vala. She spent years if not decades having to committ attrocities when a Goa'uld controlled her

[Krisz]

I am wondering when young found out about that right (bringing someone to the brink of death to wipe their mind of brainwashing)?? Did teal'c write about it in a mission report?

Young having worked in the SGC would have been briefed I'm sure about what the Goa'uld were capable of. Teal'c's experience would have been documented by those in the SGC who witnessed what Bra'tak said must be done to bring Teal'c back. Janet would certainly have documented the medical side of it, how much time after death must pass before the person is revived to make sure the brain washing had been broken.

Young was looking at his watch so must have known already what needed to be done. If he didn't know from his previous SGC position, he would have found out when he went back via the stones when it was suspected that Telford had been brainwashed given his behaviour or after Rush mentioned what he'd seen from the residual memory of Telford's imprinted on the stone Rush used.

[garhkal]

True, young did talk a lot to Oneill.

[jelgate]

I remember this episode had spanned a whole week debate on the ethics of torture. That is what made SGU great. It made the forum a lot of time question these ethical debates. I can even respect those who I disagreed with. I was on the side who supported Young (I know its a surprise.) Yes torture is something that is criminal and 9 times out of 10 I would say it is not justified. But almost every criminal and disgusting acts has rare occasions when it is justifible. Given the Destiny and all the personel was at stake I understand the need for what Young did. This ultimately asks the question is it right to harm a criminal to save innocent others? I understand this can be a slippery slope but the Destiny people we in immediate danger showing that it was necessary

Now that we have ethics out of the way...

Its a great episode mostly for the Young and Telford interaction. The episode where Young is interrogating Telford and reminscing about their lives as friends is interesting and insightful. It brings perspective of who Telford was and clearly shows his brainwashing. I especially like RDA's appearences towards the end when he gets to visit Destiny. I just seems so awesome to see O'Neill on Destiny even if he was only a corporal. On the other side we have Rush on Earth. Honestly it was dull until he was kidnapped bu Kiva. And it was only interesting because was a different kind of character. To see her playa a pseudo remorseful villian was very entertaining. Overall its a great episode to lead into the season finale

[ZRFTS]

I remember this episode had spanned a whole week debate on the ethics of torture. That is what made SGU great. It made the forum a lot of time question these ethical debates. I can even respect those who I disagreed with. I was on the side who supported Young (I know its a surprise.) Yes torture is something that is criminal and 9 times out of 10 I would say it is not justified. But almost every criminal and disgusting acts has rare occasions when it is justifible. Given the Destiny and all the personel was at stake I understand the need for what Young did. This ultimately asks the question is it right to harm a criminal to save innocent others? I understand this can be a slippery slope but the Destiny people we in immediate danger showing that it was necessary

Eh, the ethics didn't fly with me; besides, much of the ethical discussion could also be applied to 24 where they took torture to a whole new level; the type of senselessness that is there, the cold hard look on their faces as they neglect their humanity. Besides, what could he have done, sat there while the LA invaded the ship and took over while Telford remained brainwashed; only the producers know how that would of turned out.

If only Telford was a better character...

Its a great episode mostly for the Young and Telford interaction. The episode where Young is interrogating Telford and reminscing about their lives as friends is interesting and insightful. It brings perspective of who Telford was and clearly shows his brainwashing.

I nominated that for the Season 1 polls, best Young moment of Season 1 ever; shame nobody else voted on it.

On the other side we have Rush on Earth. Honestly it was dull until he was kidnapped bu Kiva. And it was only interesting because was a different kind of character. To see her playa a pseudo remorseful villian was very entertaining.

I disagree, seeing Rush be tortured brought a new side to his character; it wasn't like he was captured by aliens forced to do nothing, he was basically in a position where nothing he could do could trick them. He couldn't say a phrase or trick a person into following his logic, the LA was basically convinced it wasn't Telford therefore no mercy.

I do agree with Kiva though, she was interesting.

[jelgate]

Eh, the ethics didn't fly with me; besides, much of the ethical discussion could also be applied to 24 where they took torture to a whole new level; the type of senselessness that is there, the cold hard look on their faces as they neglect their humanity. Besides, what could he have done, sat there while the LA invaded the ship and took over while Telford remained brainwashed; only the producers know how that would of turned out.

If only Telford was a better character...

Who cares what was done on 24? This isn't 24. I really don't care if the ethics don't "fly with you" as you are not. As for the events in Incursion hindsight it 20/20. No one knew the Lucian Alliance had a device to open the door. Young though he could just trap them in the gate room

I disagree, seeing Rush be tortured brought a new side to his character; it wasn't like he was captured by aliens forced to do nothing, he was basically in a position where nothing he could do could trick them. He couldn't say a phrase or trick a person into following his logic, the LA was basically convinced it wasn't Telford therefore no mercy.

I do agree with Kiva though, she was interesting.

I never said anything about finding Rush being torture boring. I said i t was boiring until Kiva captured him

[garhkal]

I liked rush's time on earth...

[Cluas]

I had not dreamed of the direction this show would take.
I started watching it thinking it would be about exploration. Clearly i was wrong.

Not that I didn't like this. I just would have preferred some other alien enemy, rather than the LA.

[sci-fi fanatic]

After a longer delay than anticipated, I'm back with a look at Subversion. I enjoyed this quite a bit, and it sets up the finale really well.

Reconsidering Stargate Universe: Subversion

[garhkal]

Nice work as always.. Loved how you brought in the ties to Air, as a part of a 3 part saga..

[sci-fi fanatic]

Nice work as always.. Loved how you brought in the ties to Air, as a part of a 3 part saga..

Thanks. Feel like I could have connected it better if I watched Air more recently. It was almost easy to forget it was the Lucian Alliance that attacked Icarus.