Did Rush really do what Young thinks he did?

[Daro]

This quetion has come up on several other threads, so I think we should have a new one addressing it.

There are several reasons to question what happened, really, regarding the suicide of Spencer and the frame-job afterwards. As straight-forward as it appeared at first, especially given Rush's confession, I have started to become skeptical.
Something just doesn't add up about all of it.
The fact that we never see the actual footage Eli is showing Young. The fact that Spencer killed himself in the middle of the night, and Rush said he went to investigate immedietly, then planted the gun in Young's room. But Young says he was in his room that night, asleep. How'd Rush manage not to wake him? Would he even take that kind of risk, given his self-preservation instincts?
Did Rush 'confess' because he knew that refuting Young's assertion was pointless, and was stupidly trying to goad him?

Anyone else have ideas about what happened? Do you buy the story or do you think something else is going on? Let's all engage in some wild speculation.

[AdamTM]

This quetion has come up on several other threads, so I think we should have a new one addressing it.

There are several reasons to question what happened, really, regarding the suicide of Spencer and the frame-job afterwards. As straight-forward as it appeared at first, especially given Rush's confession, I have started to become skeptical.
Something just doesn't add up about all of it.
The fact that we never see the actual footage Eli is showing Young. The fact that Spencer killed himself in the middle of the night, and Rush said he went to investigate immedietly, then planted the gun in Young's room. But Young says he was in his room that night, asleep. How'd Rush manage not to wake him? Would he even take that kind of risk, given his self-preservation instincts?
Did Rush 'confess' because he knew that refuting Young's assertion was pointless, and was stupidly trying to goad him?

Anyone else have ideas about what happened? Do you buy the story or do you think something else is going on? Let's all engage in some wild speculation.

It is possible, though Rush might have planted the gun when everybody was under house-arrest in the gateroom, since he was the only one missing (Young radioed him in the Nexus)

I dont know, right now, everything looks convincingly against Rush, however im still wondering what exactly was on that recording. If it really was Rush allone, or if it was Rush investigating, and then someone came in to take the gun.

Before we know whats on the tape, i cant make my mind up.

Also, who else would have framed Young? Camille? Shes an opportunist, so maybe. The military people surely not, they are Young-loyal. Maybe Volkert, though i dont really think so.

[Daro]

It is possible, though Rush might have planted the gun when everybody was under house-arrest in the gateroom, since he was the only one missing (Young radioed him in the Nexus)

I dont know, right now, everything looks convincingly against Rush, however im still wondering what exactly was on that recording. If it really was Rush allone, or if it was Rush investigating, and then someone came in to take the gun.

Before we know whats on the tape, i cant make my mind up.

Also, who else would have framed Rush? Camille? Shes an opportunist, so maybe. The military people surely not, they are Young-loyal. Maybe Volkert, though i dont really think so.

That thought occurred to me too, that Rush would have planted it later. But I don't know if he'd have the time or take the risk. It still seems contrary to his normal risk-taking behavior. He doesn't do risky things unless he absolutely has no other choice in all the other episodes, usually. Even dialing the ninth chevron seems to be a choice he made because, in his logic, he 'had to' or else he'd lose all he's worked for.

The evidence against Rush seems damning. I don't know if Wray or another character would do it, but I don't see why Young would lash out at Rush if that were so

...unless Young himself contrived the entire situation in order to rid himself of Rush. I don't necessarily believe that's what happened, but I thought I knew Young pretty well, as a character, until the end of "Justice." He surprised me with his cold decision to leave Rush, and even more when he lied about it and obstructed justice by ordering Eli to remove the video. Why on Earth would he do that? Just to cover up a reason why he'd get rid of Rush?

[AdamTM]

That thought occurred to me too, that Rush would have planted it later. But I don't know if he'd have the time or take the risk. It still seems contrary to his normal risk-taking behavior. He doesn't do risky things unless he absolutely has no other choice in all the other episodes, usually. Even dialing the ninth chevron seems to be a choice he made because, in his logic, he 'had to' or else he'd lose all he's worked for.

The evidence against Rush seems damning. I don't know if Wray or another character would do it, but I don't see why Young would lash out at Rush if that were so

...unless Young himself contrived the entire situation in order to rid himself of Rush. I don't necessarily believe that's what happened, but I thought I knew Young pretty well, as a character, until the end of "Justice." He surprised me with his cold decision to leave Rush, and even more when he lied about it and obstructed justice by ordering Eli to remove the video. Why on Earth would he do that? Just to cover up a reason why he'd get rid of Rush?

I just thought about, how the hell did Rush even know that he would later have the time/chance to stash the weapon in Youngs quarter?

What if Young declared house-arrest on everyone and locked them in their quarters before the inspection. Rush would have been fked twice over.

How did Rush even slip out of the Gate-Room in the first place? Werent there any guards?


Also if we are in that realm of total speculation and insanity, what if Young framed himself?

[Daro]

Also if we are in that realm of total speculation and insanity, what if Young framed himself?

That has been what I've been thinking over for the past hour.
He may have seen an opportunity to get rid of Rush, who he has been paranoid about for a long time.

It is just wild speculation, but I can see Young framing himself. Not only to get rid of Rush, but to see who is on his side. I wouldn't have thought him capable of that ruthlessness until "Justice", but now I'm not so sure. His paranoia and anger management problems seem to be driving him to morally questionable acts.

[Daro]

Gods, now that I think of it....what if Young somehow manipulated or forced Eli into contriving the data? That scene at the end where Young asks him to delete the data....Eli is obviously tense and uncomfortable.

[Girlbot]

Gods, now that I think of it....what if Young somehow manipulated or forced Eli into contriving the data? That scene at the end where Young asks him to delete the data....Eli is obviously tense and uncomfortable.

What if the data deleted was not about Spencer, but about Rush's getting Franklin into the chair? It really wasn't mentioned as to exactly what it was, we just assumed it's the same thing. It might account for Young's being more irate about Rush's actions, and wanting to talk to him alone on the planet, so as not to create more chaos if the people on the ship were to find out about Franklin's real situation.

Just something that went thru my mind when I watched it.

[AdamTM]

What if the data deleted was not about Spencer, but about Rush's getting Franklin into the chair? It really wasn't mentioned as to exactly what it was, we just assumed it's the same thing. It might account for Young's being more irate about Rush's actions, and wanting to talk to him alone on the planet, so as not to create more chaos if the people on the ship were to find out about Franklin's real situation.

Just something that went thru my mind when I watched it.

That cant be, because the data from that Kino was backed up to Elis computer before the incident with the chair.


Im still pretty convinced that Rush took the gun, but the question is what he did with it.

Arguably, nobody checked the gun, Eli got his fingerprints all over it so nobody bothered. Who is to say it was the same gun as from the incident with Spencer?

Thats what bugging me, anyone could have planet A gun in Youngs quarters.

[jds1982]

That cant be, because the data from that Kino was backed up to Elis computer before the incident with the chair.


Im still pretty convinced that Rush took the gun, but the question is what he did with it.

Arguably, nobody checked the gun, Eli got his fingerprints all over it so nobody bothered. Who is to say it was the same gun as from the incident with Spencer?

Thats what bugging me, anyone could have planet A gun in Youngs quarters.

Didn't they say that Spencer checked the gun out? They could easily compare the gun's serial number against the one on the sign out form. Not that it would be hard to forge that kind of document.

[Avenger]

They don't have the means to check for finger prints.

It was definitely implied that Rush took the gun, and he even admitted as much. Even if there is footage of him taking the gun, the possibility exists that he was not the one who planted the gun. I doubt it, given Rush's admission on the planet, however.

[Blackhole]

It is possible, though Rush might have planted the gun when everybody was under house-arrest in the gateroom, since he was the only one missing (Young radioed him in the Nexus)

I dont know, right now, everything looks convincingly against Rush, however im still wondering what exactly was on that recording. If it really was Rush allone, or if it was Rush investigating, and then someone came in to take the gun.

Before we know whats on the tape, i cant make my mind up.

Also, who else would have framed Rush? Camille? Shes an opportunist, so maybe. The military people surely not, they are Young-loyal. Maybe Volkert, though i dont really think so.

Rush indicated that he heard the gunshot and went in to investigate. He saw Spencer dead and grabbed the gun. I think the Kino recorded the suicide and Rush picking up the gun. As AdamTM indicated: “It is possible, though Rush might have planted the gun when everybody was under house-arrest in the gateroom, since he was the only one missing (Young radioed him in the Nexus)”. TJ said the death probably occurred an hour on either side of 2 a.m.. Greer also said that Spencer picked his quarters to be away from everybody else’s. The question is how did Rush hear the shot? It could be a dramatic contrivances to allow him to do so or maybe Rush liked his quarters away from everybody else too and was within earshot of him. Or maybe he was walking back to his quarters and heard the shot?

I brought up the point too as why was Eli was the only one besides Young to see the full Kino recording of what happened. Scott knew the gun was missing I don’t see why he wouldn’t wait to see if it showed who came in and took the gun. If Young had joined them right away they would have likely watched the whole recording together. Again it may be a dramatic contrivance to keep Eli as the only person to know that Young knew Rush framed him before he went to the planet. When Rush returns having only Eli in the know keeps all the tension between the three of them. If Scott knew he would be duty bound to investigate it and it would greatly complicate the whole situation.

Personally, I think the frame job happened as put forth. The inconsistencies are dramatic contrivances to allow Rush to find Spencer’s body and then to plant the gun to frame Young and to keep Scott in the dark so all dramatic tension is between Young, Eli and Rush (when he returns).

Is there is some other conspiracy going on the show hasn’t really give any indication of it at least from my remembrance. But who knows, I could be wrong?

I think Young may have considered the possibility of stranding Rush but probably didn’t intend to do so when he went to the planet. He has shown himself as an honorable man and stranding someone when they are likely to die is a very drastic measure and out of character for him. I think he just wanted to confront Rush, beat him up and cow him into acquiescence. He wouldn’t have asked him “are we done” if he intended to strand him. He could have just shot him or beaten him unconscious – why ask him the question? When they fought and Rush refused to relent Young got even angrier and made his decision to leave him. Young has a temper and it probably played a factor in his decision.

[AdamTM]

They don't have the means to check for finger prints.

It was definitely implied that Rush took the gun, and he even admitted as much. Even if there is footage of him taking the gun, the possibility exists that he was not the one who planted the gun. I doubt it, given Rush's admission on the planet, however.

I still dont get that, i mean taking fingerprints isnt really hard, i did it as a kid.

All you need is a bit of clear tape and makeup powder, you cant tell me that NONE of the chicks on this ship took her handbag, that would be a world first for women

And to compare it, you just need a print from everyone, ink, or really ANY pigmented substance is ok for that. Just cut open 2-3 pens and voila, you have it. Also im pretty sure, you could even modify one of the consoles to read prints, i mean they are all touch-sensitive anyways.

Thats what bugged me most i think, taking prints and doing forensics isnt really that hard. You dont need a state of the art lab for it.

[Blackhole]

That thought occurred to me too, that Rush would have planted it later. But I don't know if he'd have the time or take the risk. It still seems contrary to his normal risk-taking behavior. He doesn't do risky things unless he absolutely has no other choice in all the other episodes, usually. Even dialing the ninth chevron seems to be a choice he made because, in his logic, he 'had to' or else he'd lose all he's worked for.

The evidence against Rush seems damning. I don't know if Wray or another character would do it, but I don't see why Young would lash out at Rush if that were so

...unless Young himself contrived the entire situation in order to rid himself of Rush. I don't necessarily believe that's what happened, but I thought I knew Young pretty well, as a character, until the end of "Justice." He surprised me with his cold decision to leave Rush, and even more when he lied about it and obstructed justice by ordering Eli to remove the video. Why on Earth would he do that? Just to cover up a reason why he'd get rid of Rush?

I think Young covered up the whole thing for the same reason he stepped down so readily to Wray – He wasn’t going to risk an incident that could lead to factionalizing the crew. He already told Scott he didn’t think the crew would survive it.

[Blackhole]

I just thought about, how the hell did Rush even know that he would later have the time/chance to stash the weapon in Youngs quarter?

What if Young declared house-arrest on everyone and locked them in their quarters before the inspection. Rush would have been fked twice over.

How did Rush even slip out of the Gate-Room in the first place? Werent there any guards?


Also if we are in that realm of total speculation and insanity, what if Young framed himself?

how the hell did Rush even know that he would later have the time/chance to stash the weapon in Youngs quarter?

Not to be flippant about it, but because the writers wrote it that way. Rush routinely does what he wants. I doubt he would seriously be afraid that there wouldn't be an opportunity to slip away and plant the gun in Young's quarters.

[Blackhole]

That has been what I've been thinking over for the past hour.
He may have seen an opportunity to get rid of Rush, who he has been paranoid about for a long time.

It is just wild speculation, but I can see Young framing himself. Not only to get rid of Rush, but to see who is on his side. I wouldn't have thought him capable of that ruthlessness until "Justice", but now I'm not so sure. His paranoia and anger management problems seem to be driving him to morally questionable acts.

Rush admitted that he planted the gun. Why would he do so if it wasn't what happened?