'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[the fifth man]

Personally, I thought this was a great episode. As did my wife. The only part of the whole thing that sucked IMO is that we have to wait until April to see where things go from here.

[garhkal]

Young claims he saw Rush trapped beneath a rockslide, not that he necessarily saw him die. .

BUT if rush was buried, how did he survive??

Space in canada an Sky 1 in the UK both have there next airing in January, meaning it about four week, though it most likely will be 5-6 weeks given they sometime do not start airing new stuff until the second or third week of January at least on sky.

Which makes me wonder if it will be on Hulu right after, or does Hulu only get it from Scifi?

I don't see how using the alien ship to return to Destiny is a Deus Ex Machina. Thats my guess Rush will return its the ship

It would be a DEM for three reasons.

1) Rush has no way of knowing where the destiny went, or where it will be?
2) He has no tools or parts to repair the ship
3) IT IS an alien ship, so him knowing what is wrong let alone how to fix it is out of the question so soon.

Scott - Speaking of him, on one hand I can admire him for his loyalty. But on the other, he still needs to learn some things from Young. No matter how much you believe otherwise, you have to treat everyone equal. You can't give special treatment to people based on feelings (Ahem, Chloe). He was way too quick to say "done, let's move on" when searching Young's quarters.

It did kind of seem 'rushed' through..

i think the fact that young has proof that rush lied will also keep rush under control. after all, with that evidence, young can get rush locked up (if they were on earth, a trick like that would have gotten him fired and likely cost him his security clearance)

Or worse.. being fed to a wraith
BUT i would have prefered Young to have outsted rush as the snark he is.

Young is not a monster! He did exactly what O'Neill would have done in that situation - remember "The other side" when he shut the gate on Alar?

The different there is Rush IS a member of your team, where as Alar is not.

The ship is in control. That's what I mean about it turning around to go back and get Rush. It won't be the crew...

And it would go a long way to confirm there is an AI at work..

"tempering with the evidences"

Don't you mean, Tampering with the evidence.

Rush, a-ah
Savior of the Universe
Rush, a-ah
He save everyone of us
Rush, a-ah
He's a miracle
Rush, a-ah
King of the impossible

General gala, Rush Gordon approaching
Open fire, all weapons!
Dispatch war rocket ajax to bring back his body.

[HAL2100]

Spoiler:

Earlier today someone posted a message either at imdb.com or here on www.gateworld.net (sorry I can't remember which) that said when Rush looked up in the sky at the end of "Justice" the constillation "Souther Cross" was there.

I didn't think much of it until now. According to reports on how the series closes for the year the Lucians get onboard Destiny or attack Destiny. I have wondered how this will work as they are supposed to be nine galaxies or so over and no ship, especially a modified Goa'uld ship could travel there. And the Orii deep space rings can't really be built to bounce ships back and forth.

So I was thinking what if Rush lied about how far away they are from home? What if they are still in the Milky Way or a galaxy close enough that the Homeworld Security crew could send help in a relatively short time frame, say a year or so?

Who would challenge him on this? Most of the scientific crew have been working on survival level issues like how the ship itself works. Eli has been trapped between the Rush/Young power struggle.

I think HWS is going on Rush's word for their exact location. They are only travelling a little faster than light speed so considering it would take years to travel from Earth to our closest neighbor star at light speed this may not be a far fetched an idea.

Rush has lied before to continue his work. Lying about their location to keep his butt on Destiny is clearly not above him, so what do you guys think?

The ships been traveling for at least several tens of thousands of years at minimum, if not bordering on several million years.

[HAL2100]

Rush, a-ah
Savior of the Universe
Rush, a-ah
He save everyone of us
Rush, a-ah
He's a miracle
Rush, a-ah
King of the impossible

True story.

Rush, a-ah
Savior of the Destiny
Rush, a-ah
He save everyone of us
Rush, a-ah
He's a miracle
Rush, a-ah
King of the impossible

[HAL2100]

Me too. I want to see how Rush handles getting back to Destiny . . .if he gets back. I think he will and that the seeder ship will play a part in it.

In thinking about the seeder ship, if that is in fact what it is (right now that is my opinion - otherwise how did the stargate get put on the planet), why is it on the planet? Mechanical problems? Delivered it's last Stargate? Something else?

Also, if this is a seeder ship when was it sent out? Before or after the Destiny took off? The reason I ask this is if it went out before Destiny then it would have older tech. If it was sent out afterwards then it would have newer tech (hence faster drives, which would allow Rush to catch Destiny).

It will be interesting to see how ti all plays out.

It was clear that it was of alien design and not of Ancient design.

[HAL2100]

I did feel that it was a bit obvious that it was Rush. I wish that the writer's had the shake-em up mentality that BSG introduced where you the very thing you expected was that last thing that actually happened.

Personally, I would have pushed the storyline back to a season 2 or 3 so that other characters could really be introduced to the audience and developed so that when it was introduced, it could be any one of a number of persons who planted the gun.

Think about what it would have been like if it had been Eli that did it? or Chloe? You don't expect either one of them to do, but BAMB! it turns out that he or she did, the question becomes why.

With Rush, it was pretty obvious. The only other option would have been Ming-Na's character as a means to gain power.

[Yusagi]

Another mediocre episode, but this time only because it's a mid-season finale. As a regular two-parter, like Light-Dark, this would be perfectly fine. Though, I think the trial-format (blessedly truncated as it was) is another episode that's being shown way too early. Granted, if there were a murderer with the danger of becoming serial, they needed to know. But, the whole 'semblance of society' thing was, IMO, ridiculous, given their situation. They cannot have settled into life on the Destiny enough to have a working society. If they had, they'd have figured out by now that the Destiny shares significant genes with the TARDIS. It makes no unnecessary stops.

The space-ship was interesting, but again, barely touched on--like the chair in this ep and in Life. This is made worse because it's an obvious DEM to solve the Rush problem, and will likely have zero impact other than that unless Rush goes classic-series-Baltar. Even the Destiny knows its a DEM.

Speaking of that sticky little plot, I found it ridiculous on several levels. Chiefly, that they would have telegraphed their move that early in a mid-season finale. Secondly, that Young would be so irrational and irresponsible that he would ditch their most valuable asset simply because he pissed him off. Third, that it took Kino footage for anyone to guess that it could be an opportunistic framing.

Speaking of, Young is way, way out of line (Oh look! Again!) treating Rush like he did. Rush did not kill Spencer. Rush did not force the scientist into the chair--call it manipulation if you like, but the fact was, Rush was telling the truth. Someone had to try that torture trap. Rush is far too valuable to be ditched for any of that. Rush knew that.

Young did not. Because Rush is right. Young is no longer the right man for the job. That said, I was further annoyed that Wray seemed to become not just OOC, but chronically inept as soon as she took charge. Much disappointment. Why Young didn't assume Shepherd's Military Commander role makes no sense, either.

Frankly, it felt as if all the characters were twisted to fit a plot, instead of the plot fitting the characters (like a bad Heroes episode). This is sad, when it's supposed to be a character-driven show.

One last thought: Where are these uniforms coming from? Do we have an Ancient replicator (of the Trek persuasion) on the Destiny?

[Yusagi]

On a lighter note, I loved the sweet potato moment with Greer, though I totally called it, it was amusing all the same. I also loved the little, understated moments, such as the fact that Eli is a part of the command structure, and uses iMovie to cut up Kino clips.

[Yusagi]

Spoiler:

Earlier today someone posted a message either at imdb.com or here on www.gateworld.net (sorry I can't remember which) that said when Rush looked up in the sky at the end of "Justice" the constillation "Souther Cross" was there.

I didn't think much of it until now. According to reports on how the series closes for the year the Lucians get onboard Destiny or attack Destiny. I have wondered how this will work as they are supposed to be nine galaxies or so over and no ship, especially a modified Goa'uld ship could travel there. And the Orii deep space rings can't really be built to bounce ships back and forth.

So I was thinking what if Rush lied about how far away they are from home? What if they are still in the Milky Way or a galaxy close enough that the Homeworld Security crew could send help in a relatively short time frame, say a year or so?

Who would challenge him on this? Most of the scientific crew have been working on survival level issues like how the ship itself works. Eli has been trapped between the Rush/Young power struggle.

I think HWS is going on Rush's word for their exact location. They are only travelling a little faster than light speed so considering it would take years to travel from Earth to our closest neighbor star at light speed this may not be a far fetched an idea.

Rush has lied before to continue his work. Lying about their location to keep his butt on Destiny is clearly not above him, so what do you guys think?

It's an interesting idea, but difficult to execute long term. They would be forced to just 'happen' not to encounter anyone familiar, or anyone who knew anyone familiar, or the jig would be up.

[PG15]

BUT if rush was buried, how did he survive??

He wasn't buried very deep?

Why Young didn't assume Shepherd's Military Commander role makes no sense, either.

Most likely because the civillians will have none of it. With this framing, Young lost any trust he might have had with them.

One last thought: Where are these uniforms coming from? Do we have an Ancient replicator (of the Trek persuasion) on the Destiny?

As Franklin's blood-stained shirt shows, they are still wearing their old clothes; cleaned, perhaps, with that shower thing.

[Lucian]

You know I've answered pretty much of everyone's question with my theory in my first previous post in this tread, strangely people are still speculating about how Rush get back to Destiny when I have a sound proof theory concerning that, and no one bothered to quote me or disprove or comment on what I brought forward.

I don't want to complain, but I'd love some feedback guys, tell me if my idea on how this will develop holds or not.

I'll post it again (edited), and within a single "spoiler" tag so that is doesn't get cut up by the moderator and so that you guys don't have to look for my post on a some far away previous page:

Mod insert : Spoilers /Spec and theories under tag for Joe Mallozzi's blog,and eps "Space","Divided", and "Subversion".

Spoiler:

I don't think Rush will 'fix' the ship, I strongly doubt it... he'll probably encouter an alien species but not in the way you might think:

Remember Rush's words in this episode concerning the star system where the Destiny is, a system with a dozen planets with 'gate technology'; if that is true, then there can be some other fancy surprises around for Rush to find out. (Rush says in this episode: "there's a dozen planets with not a single indication of advanced technology up until now"...)

So there's a chance for him to find something other than a rusty ship. That being said, also keep in mind the following:

NEW! November 10 - When will we know more about the alien pod that detached from the Destiny at the end of "Air, Part 3?" Writer-producer Joseph Mallozzi gives this answer: "You will -- in about four episodes." This was following the broadcast of episode 107, meaning viewers should see this story continue in the mid-season two-parter.

This tell us that the following episode 'space' will probably tell us about the pod. IF there is an alien species capable of space travel in this part of the universe, it might have retrieved the pod; and maybe even Kiva (Rhona Mitra) from the Lucian Alliance on board of it. We don't know how the Lucian alliance got through but I suspect they're the ones who took the pod in Air Part 3.

Where does that leave us, well with Rush's help, I'm sure a pod can probably locate its place of 'origin', or in other words, the Destiny.

Now, although we don't get to see Kiva until "Subversion", 'Space' will probably give us some clues on how they got to follow Icarus's/The Destiny's crew into this part of the universe.

My theory is that Kiva, and her crew, once on their own, away from the Destiny with their pod, did something, maybe steal some tech, anything, to piss off another alien race (who might or might not have found that pod with the small Lucian Alliance remenant drifting in space.)

Now this act would probably be enough for those Aliens to start considering anything that has a similar origin to the Destiny's pod to be further percieved as a 'threat'; The Aliens are hence thinking that the Destiny and its crew are part of the same gang as the Lucian Alliance, who did whatever bad deed that made those Aliens angry.

So, when the Destiny gets shot at out of the blue, without any reason, it's only natural for them to shoot back, which would only accentuate and continue the percieved thread the Alien's have of the Destiny and its people, probably bringing us to some cliffhanger in the Finale two episodes.

Now, concerning Justice, with the above in mind, Rush will probably be detained and interrogated (as admitted in some interview), but Rush won't know for what reason this happens (he doesn't know about Kiva yet). Reason's which will probably be revealed in the final episodes of this season.

Hence, Rush during his interrogation, will be asked about the Ancient's Technology in the pod and elsewhere. He'll probably be forced to work on the pod or something. From there he will be able to pinpoint the Destiny's location and use that info and give it to his captors to survive.

And with that, he'll probably hop back a ride back home, somehow, and escape and find his way back on the Destiny during the space battle to be had sometime soon.

Which then lead's us to the end of the episode entitled Space and the beginning of "Divided". Maybe a division in the crew between Young and Rush?

Also, I think Eli at the end of Justice was to scared to do anything else than take the USB drive... He knows what Young did, or at least he suspects, and if you're smart, and you suspect someone is a killer, you don't flaunt it or tell him to his face. You just make sure you keep a copy of whatever will be on that hardrive as well... leverage, just in case.

[Ramses818]

Good episode

I didn't like how they immediatley jumped to a hearing. They didn't even gather evidence.

That was a great head-butt. I think they were wrong when they said it was alien. It looked exactly like the shuttle on destiny. I think that he gets in and figures it out and catches up to destiny. He learns on the ship how to control the chair and at the brink of it all he saves Franklin.

And thankfully Sgt. Spencer is gone. I couldn't deal with him.

Too bad we have to wait until March for the next few episodes

[EllieVee]

See, I would have hauled off to Earth and asked for a forensics team. Those CSI kids can whip up forensics out of a piece of string and some dust.

[Night Marshal]

This was the first time all seasons where I could really feel the hooks of the show. I had liked SGU up til this point but was still very meh. Now I really want to know whats going. on.

The next question is where do we go from here, I don't have a good answer as one that has stayed away from spoilers. Seems clear we have not Seen the end of Rush, but how he catches up that should be interesting and how Young's lies fall apart when he does.

Good stuff. Character Drama at its best. That said the show needs to change gears for a while now so we can enjoy just what we have been through.
4 out of 5

[EllieVee]

This was the first time all seasons where I could really feel the hooks of the show. I had liked SGU up til this point but was still very meh. Now I really want to know whats going. on.

The next question is where do we go from here, I don't have a good answer as one that has stayed away from spoilers. Seems clear we have not Seen the end of Rush, but how he catches up that should be interesting and how Young's lies fall apart when he does.

Good stuff. Character Drama at its best. That said the show needs to change gears for a while now so we can enjoy just what we have been through.
4 out of 5

Slightly OT but I felt much the same way with the first season of SGA. Didn't hit its straps until The Storm/The Eye and The Defiant One. This has had more of a build up for me, though. Am loving it despite misgivings and criticisms.