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Young has psychologically crumbled and needs be removed from command.

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    #16
    I Think. Young should have had 8 guy in the gateroom waiting for the LA and just killed them as they come through the gate and if it failed just fall to secondly base. if they did that they would have cut the LA in half and maybe saved telford. Without any hosts then vent the gateroom. young had now backup plan thats why he fail. (A-team quote always think 5 steps ahead.)

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      #17
      Originally posted by Major_Griff View Post
      Didn't Rush say he couldn't complete the transfer?
      you are correct, it's incomplete...for now, but the LA doesn't have control either and with Rush, Brody and Eli, I'd say that the "we" side is more likely to come out ahead.

      Originally posted by Pandora's_Box View Post
      This is one of those horrible, crazy, impossible-to-foresee situations that every military commander probably dreads happening, prepares for as best as one can, and then is forced to play by ear when it occurs. Why? Because things never ever happen as predicted or expected or willed when people are added to the mix.

      Sure, tactically the best option may have seemed to be to vent the entire gate room to space the moment the LA started coming through the wormhole, but not only would that have been a far colder option than I think Young is actually capable of, it's also incredibly short-sighted. Young had no reason to think that he didn't have at least a short amount of time to get more information out of the LA; he had no way to know they had those door-opening devices and so probably figured to use some time to assess the situation further which could have worked to their advantage if the LA happened to be planning a second wave of some sort or if there happened to be more to their plan. Killing them outright may have taken care of those particular infiltrators, but it would have done nothing in the bigger picture if the LA had planned something else as well.

      Regardless, venting atmosphere was a moot point because it would have taken far more time than it took the LA to open the doors with their devices, so they would have had those doors open anyway. The end result would have been the same.

      Then there were hostages and while it's kind of easy to sit back and assess the situation now, deeming this more wrong and that move better or worse than any other, working in the moment is probably impossible to fathom.

      Should Young have killed everyone including the hostages by venting the atmosphere? What would that have accomplished other than ridding the Destiny of the LA (for a short time perhaps)? Who would have followed his command after that? Would it have been worth losing their only medic, a handful of soldiers and scientists? How much longer would they have survived with Wray in charge of a mission demanding military leadership, with Rush off handling his own agenda, and Young probably doubting/hating himself to the point of being useless to everyone aboard the Destiny?

      Crappy situation all around, but of all the not-so-great choices for leadership, Young was probably the best. And honestly, considering the strength of the LA and all the time they've had to plan this incursion vs. how much time Destiny has had to plan its defense, I don't think it would have ended up any other way.
      I agree with all of this. It's very easy to sit back and say he should have done this that or the next thing but this was a bit of a nightmare scenario. This could be argued to death but it's going to break down along certain lines for some people. Is Young perfect? No. Was allowing for negotiations with the LA likely a mistake? Sure. But the man had only the facts he had to work with and we have the benefit of having been able to see the whole picture. I suppose I;m one of the people that says a plan hasn't failed until it's failed all the way, and we haven't seen that yet.
      sigpic


      SGU-RELATED FANART | IN YOUNG WE TRUST | FANDUMB

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        #18
        yep! I like Louis' flawed character. PTSD would explain alot. I imagine most of the characters mistakes and problems could be expained when you look at everything from a mental health standpoint. TJ had a chat with everyone to see how they were doing. How would you be if put in the same? Nutz?
        sigpic

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          #19
          Originally posted by fmbchris View Post
          yep! I like Louis' flawed character. PTSD would explain alot. I imagine most of the characters mistakes and problems could be expained when you look at everything from a mental health standpoint. TJ had a chat with everyone to see how they were doing. How would you be if put in the same? Nutz?
          I think most of us would be a little bonkers and a lot of them had problems to begin with
          sigpic


          SGU-RELATED FANART | IN YOUNG WE TRUST | FANDUMB

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            #20
            Originally posted by jelgate View Post
            Whats the altenative? Wray? Telford? Rush? Scott?

            I think we all know Young has his problems but then again so does everyone else on this ship. Minus BAG of course.
            ok! im lost here who is BAG?
            sigpic

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              #21
              Much rather have Young than Scott (No backbone) or Wray(Annoying).

              BAG is Bald Asian Guy.

              He was in the Faith episode.

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                #22
                Wall of text, which I refuse to read on principle. I think his current psychological state is far more human than his previous psychological state, which was more primal.
                If you wish to see more of my rants, diatribes, and general comments, check out my Twitter account SirRyanR!
                Check out Pharaoh Hamenthotep's wicked 3D renders here!
                If you can prove me wrong, go for it. I enjoy being proven wrong.

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                Worship the Zefron. Always the Zefron.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Pandora's_Box View Post
                  This is one of those horrible, crazy, impossible-to-foresee situations that every military commander probably dreads happening, prepares for as best as one can, and then is forced to play by ear when it occurs. Why? Because things never ever happen as predicted or expected or willed when people are added to the mix.

                  Sure, tactically the best option may have seemed to be to vent the entire gate room to space the moment the LA started coming through the wormhole, but not only would that have been a far colder option than I think Young is actually capable of, it's also incredibly short-sighted. Young had no reason to think that he didn't have at least a short amount of time to get more information out of the LA; he had no way to know they had those door-opening devices and so probably figured to use some time to assess the situation further which could have worked to their advantage if the LA happened to be planning a second wave of some sort or if there happened to be more to their plan. Killing them outright may have taken care of those particular infiltrators, but it would have done nothing in the bigger picture if the LA had planned something else as well.
                  I don't think so. I agree the door opening devices couldn't have been expected but explosives would have been. We have seen Scott open a door with explosives just about as fast as LA did with their door opening devices. Young had to know once the LA invaders arrived they would probably place explosives on the doors very quickly.

                  Regardless, venting atmosphere was a moot point because it would have taken far more time than it took the LA to open the doors with their devices, so they would have had those doors open anyway. The end result would have been the same.

                  Then there were hostages and while it's kind of easy to sit back and assess the situation now, deeming this more wrong and that move better or worse than any other, working in the moment is probably impossible to fathom.

                  Should Young have killed everyone including the hostages by venting the atmosphere? What would that have accomplished other than ridding the Destiny of the LA (for a short time perhaps)? Who would have followed his command after that? Would it have been worth losing their only medic, a handful of soldiers and scientists? How much longer would they have survived with Wray in charge of a mission demanding military leadership, with Rush off handling his own agenda, and Young probably doubting/hating himself to the point of being useless to everyone aboard the Destiny?

                  Crappy situation all around, but of all the not-so-great choices for leadership, Young was probably the best. And honestly, considering the strength of the LA and all the time they've had to plan this incursion vs. how much time Destiny has had to plan its defense, I don't think it would have ended up any other way.
                  I don't think so. Volker and Brody said it would take less than a minute to vent the room to vacuum. A person would pass out well before vacuum was reached. If Young had evacuated the room right after the first group of invaders were thrown through they would have been incapacitated before any action could have been taken. All the others arriving in a vacuum would have passed out in seconds. The attack would have been thwarted.

                  That was why General O’Neill was shown criticizing Young’s decision and threatening to replace him in command. His choice to delay was a critical and clear error in judgment and as was seen lost the ship and placed everyone’s’ lives in imminent mortal peril.
                  Last edited by Blackhole; 13 June 2010, 07:40 PM.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by lordofseas View Post
                    Wall of text, which I refuse to read on principle.
                    Lolz, green.

                    Perfecto!

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                      #25
                      Sorry for not reading anything beyond half the 1st page, but here are my thoughts:

                      He should never vent the room to kill the LA as they arrived, it would be a war crime. But he should not stop venting it just to save a man (two, in the present case). His duty was to vent the damn room to the point everyone inside starded losing balance and bled by the nose; at that moment, no one would be dead, but also in no condition to react.

                      The SGC military personel would then be able to easily go in (life support restored to the room, of course), disarm the LA invaders and place them under arrest withot a single shot or death. The only reason for all the bull**** that happened was because TPTB needed a conflict and a cliffhanger AND couldn't think of a better way to deliver it.

                      It would have been much better if the LA personel somehow foresaw/antecipated the venting of the gate room, crossed the gate already wearing breathing aparatus and quickly used the Ancient Lockpicks while Yong yelled "The plan won't wo-ork!!! To your posi-i-tions!!!", and then the episode proceeded as it was made.

                      See, even I could write this scene better...
                      One Ring to rule the Dark Side
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                      Sith Nazghul

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                        #26
                        seriously, i must agree with you on some level. the fact that TJ is pregnant is obviously something that needs to be accounted for, there is no doubt he is emotionally compromised. (losing command (the destruction of icarus) playing favorites, and getting a serviceman pregnant)

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                          #27
                          I hope Telford can make it ok, not dead. I then hope he gets put in charge of Destiny. The new Telford is way better then Young. So Telford can be in charge of everything, while Young has the military, and Rush has the scientist not named Eli.
                          thelastgreatprophecy.com

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                            #28
                            Young is the reason why they are still saying: "Wrong people on a wrong place"

                            They are coming...Smurfs!

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Vanek26 View Post
                              Much rather have Young than Scott (No backbone) or Wray(Annoying).

                              BAG is Balding Asian Guy.

                              He was in the Faith episode.
                              Fixed it for you.
                              sigpic

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Vanek26 View Post
                                He was in the Faith episode.
                                Im fairly sure ive spotted him as an extra in Atlantis too!
                                Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of Him, May His passing cleanse the world. May He keep the world for his people.

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