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Young has psychologically crumbled and needs be removed from command.

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    #46
    Originally posted by Blackhole View Post
    You are very right about the difficulty of finding his replacement. Unfortunately he was in command and he lost the ship. No matter how you slice it imo it is hard to let someone who made such a catastrophic mistake continue in command.
    Hammond and Weir lost control of their bases all the time and yet kept control of them after the ordeal.
    Originally posted by aretood2
    Jelgate is right

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      #47
      The problem with Young is that he's done a lot of good command decisions, and a lot of bad decisions, and that from the start. He's IMO much more inconsistent than Rush is, who is surly not the most stable person on board Destiny.

      Rush's work for SGC go along at some point with the dead of his wife, something he didn't get over, which leads to the point where he made the fatal decision to dial that 9th chevron, instead of any other planet to evacuate the Icarus personnel. No question that was his fault, a fault nobody on board Destiny will forget. Most of his actions lack emotions, he appears as very callous.

      Young is the complete opposite. He's passionate, shows emotions, and let his emotions also channel his decisions. He's in opposition to Rush from the start, and accuses him to do furtive things, like doing all that they don't go back home, messing things up to aggrandise himself, never thinking first about the people, but instead of water supplies and such things. Rush is all, he detests most. The personalisation of a cold machine, who don't care about people. I've got the impression from the beginning, that there must be something in Young’s latest history he never gets over, namely loosing people under his command, at some point close to the beginning of Air, which leads to his irrational behaviour.

      We've seen traces of his desperate effort not to loose any more persons under his command, first time was in Air II, self-sacrifice, instead of asking somebody else, to close a door. For a Commander it is not the thing he should do, it is clear, that such a decision can only be made once, so the logic way should have been, looking for the solution which was found later by Senator Armstrong. In Water he try to rescue Scott, and nearly stayed too long, but he and Scott had luck, in the end an earth quake helped them, a lucky coincidence. The way Young handled the chair incident was on the one hand good, Rush should look for a solution for this problem as long as possible, without using one of his people to sit in that damn thing. But at some point it should be clear, use it or forget about it completely, because otherwise it seems not possible to know how it works.

      The way Young reacted while finding the gun in his quarters could not have done better, he stepped away, and give his command over to Wray. And that in opposition to Rush, who framed him for murder to have free access to the chair, what a bad idea, and he paid for it, badly, afterwards. Young's good start to handle the situation was unfortunately devalued by his outburst of fury which leads Rush stranded on a planet, without a chance to survive more than a few days. The correct way to handle this, should have been a court hearing for Rush for his crime, not to do a crime to make it a short hearing.

      Young's way to handle the mutiny after the military has control over the ship again, was very well done, the try to use boot camp methods to make the civis fit for duty, before, was not. Civil personal are no soldiers and will never be. Give them the opportunity to join the sport activities if they want to, would be much better. Franklin was really sick after that training, not good.

      Young's angry reaction about Rush sitting in the chair, to find a better way to get access to Destiny's master-code, was irreproducible IMO, as he'd said before that he's allowed to sit in that chair, but nobody else. So what do Young want? Does he know himself?

      The worst mistake did Young in the last two episodes, when he refused to disconnect the stones, to find a way to rescue Telford, while risking Rush's life. He could have saved Rush very easy by disconnecting the stones at any time. He didn't do it, because 1) he wanted more informations from Telford, and 2) I think, it was Young's plan also to get Telford back, when he realised that his former friend must have been brainwashed by the LA. To do this he risks Rush's life (it was his body). He let him die to revive him afterwards. That was extreme risky, Rush's body could have died during that procedure. It worked in the end, but it could have lead to another result. Would he have done this with Scott's body? (I’ve asked this question before, I have no answer, for it)

      After realising that the LA brought Telford with them, he should have going on with his plan, but he refused, because he was not able to loose Telford and Rush, for the latter he could again just give the order to disconnect the stones, it would took about 10 secs, and the loss would have been one instead of two persons. After that there was no other option to overrun the LA with less casualties. Young brought himself in a situation which is only very hard to solve, because he's not able to think rational if it is necessary. He needs really a break from his job. As O’Neil has pointed out he should act, or step back from his command. He didn’t. We’ll see in October how the situation will be resolved.
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        #48
        Originally posted by Blackhole View Post
        You are very right about the difficulty of finding his replacement. Unfortunately he was in command and he lost the ship. No matter how you slice it imo it is hard to let someone who made such a catastrophic mistake continue in command.
        he hasn't lost the ship - yet

        Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon
        ....
        I'm hoping season 2 starts with him going ax crazy and opening a can of whoopass. On the other hand the writers could decide, and it would also be realistic, to have Young essentially break down and cease to function as a commander, drastically changing the power balance on the ship. Honestly I think it could go either way.

        Neither however did so because of a major lapse in judgment and neither lost support or confidence from both those under their command, or those in command of them. Young has, though at this point he still has a chance to put things right and pull his finger out. Time (and season 2 ) will tell.
        part of the joy in how they've written the characters is that we really don't know how it will go. They're not stereotypical heroes that always Do The Right Thing!!!1eleventy! As for the previous two series and their losses, yes, they happened but due to the style of storytelling, it's doubtful that they would have been written to fail. That's the difference, Young has been written to fail. To fail, to try, to get back up again. In other words, like most of us. Beating up on the character because he's written in such a way as to show us that? Why? What does it say about us that we need these cookie cutter perfect heroes?
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        SGU-RELATED FANART | IN YOUNG WE TRUST | FANDUMB

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          #49
          Young was in a complete no win situation. Once the LA boarded and took hostages Young lost. Young had one chance to win and that was venting the gateroom, and even that had a high chance of failure. But once the LA got a foothold and hostages it was all over. Yes Young could have retaken the ship at the cost of all the hostages, it would be cold but it was the only winning solution for him. But Young's personality made losing the only outcome.

          Here's why, Young is trying to be a SG team commander like O'Neill was rather than an SGC commander like Hammond. There were plenty of times where O'Neill was in similiar situations with Young, but rather than having an entire ship and crew to save it was usually just SG-1 or a few aliens. O'Neill could try to save his team and what not because he was only risking his life and his teams. When the SGC was compromised Hammond was always ready to blow the place and everyone in it. He was always stopped at the last minute, but the point is Hammond was willing to sacrifice as many as was required for the safety of Earth.

          Young is acting like O'Neill when he should be acting like Hammond. Scott can act like O'Neill and pull off insane rescues at the last minute but Young should be ready to sacrifice anyone on Destiny in order to save the crew. Would Hammond have hesiated to blow the base if a bunch of aliens got a foothold? No he would have the countdown for a nuke running the moment they got a foothold.

          The moment the LA arrived Young should have vented the gateroom and accepted Telford and Rush as acceptable losses. The moment the LA took hostages and got a foothold he should have started a countdown to vent the gateroom and kill all the LA and the hostages. He could try to save the hostages in that time but once that time runs out kill all of them. With the star putting Destiny in danger and him needing to get Scott and Greer out on the ship he should have vented the entire area so they could get out. Instead Young sent his entire crew to their deaths by LA firing squads on the hope that a bunch of pirates would honor a verbal agrement.

          Young should not be commander of the Destiny as long as he cares more about the lives of some of his people over the lives of all of his people. If Young wants to be a good commander he has to be prepared to lose people, if he wants to be a great commander he has to be prepared to lose all of them.
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          Doci of the BAG

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            #50
            Whatever is going to happen to our favorite "crazy" boy , we will probably find out in 202 "Aftermath".
            Aftermath is the episode where Joesph Mallozzi said in his blog "Aftermath (in which actor Louis Ferreia delivers his best performance yet in a suspenseful, absorbing, emotionally-draining episode.

            If Col. Young does step down as commander (I hope he doesn't) it won't cut back on Louis's screen time.
            I don't care for Telford taking over Young's job!

            Comment


              #51
              He looked a spent force in the finale. I think Telford will/should replace him.

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                #52
                Originally posted by PG15
                While I have no doubt that Young would, deep down, prefer people he was more familiar with/formed an emotional bond with to survive, that's true of...well, most humans. Even Hammond of Texas admitted as such in "Heroes Part 2".
                Sure. He's just quite blatant about it and it does not inspire morale (which contributed to the civillians trying that takeover, as well as Rush making another point of this in the last s1 ep).

                Originally posted by PG15
                However, your statement "If it was someone Young didn't have a psychological connection to, he would have waved goodbye to them (maybe not happily, but he'd not have gone to the point of self- sacrifice)." has no proof whatsoever, not until he's actually done that (which would be an interesting episode in and of itself). I don't count Faith because, as Rush said, they can't lose that many people at once;
                So you don't count faith for a reason, but I do count faith for the reason I stated. As I said, he's an ambiguous character.

                Originally posted by PG15
                Young knew that he couldn't order the civilians around, so he opted to just get the military back because they would be more willing to follow his orders.
                But that is the point, he didn't just order them up and they went. He employed different means than his authority as military commander. Basically, he bartered with them and it says a lot that his authority wouldn't be enough to get "his people" to follow him back to Destiny.

                Originally posted by PG15
                And what you call guilt-tripping I can calling them out. With all due respect to TJ, while I do respect her decision, Young is also right in that she's their only medically-inclined person. They need her if they want to survive. Meanwhile, Scott is one of only 3 officers on the ship, and Greer...well, he was going to return to the ship anyway. It was a difficult situation though, to be sure.
                Your argument as to why TJ especially is needed is sound. But it also holds true in reverse fashion: The people on the planet are better off with a medic than without. Same as they would be better off with at least one or two military than without any. Yet Young made them completely trade military protection for shelter. I don't know, it just does seem to me he doesn't care about those that choose to stay (which in case of "sudden religious leader guy" I can totally understand ).

                Again, those actions can be interpreted in different ways, which makes it interesting to see if our wish/prediction/fear that he will step down to Telford will pan out. I'm certainly rooting for Telford taking over, as it would give Young some "less pressure" time to mourn the child alongside TJ. With the way Young is already shown cracking around the edges, I would find it majorly unbelievable if he brushed off the death of the baby like it was nothing, seeing as how protective he acted towards TJ since she told him about it.

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                  #53
                  Without Young I think they would be much worse ... its like marshall law on that ship to some degree and thats what they need. I do think having to run things the way he does is taking a tole on him but Young is getting the job done.
                  Hurt & Heal EXTREME come cast your vote PLEASEIts in fun & games go find it!!!!
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                    #54
                    Originally posted by PG15
                    Oh geez. Is no thread safe from the Young Hate Brigade? A perfectly good thread about a commander crumbling psychologically due to almost a year of continued stress and the loss of his men has now been ruined by snarky one-liners that does nothing besides feeding the twisted need of Haters to continue to bash his character into the ground and to anger those who happen to like the character. Funderful.

                    Hey, maybe if some of you Rush fans weren't so gung-ho about your Young Hate then maybe Rush will get a little more respect around here - after all, those who like Young and those who like both (i.e. me) usually starts bashing Rush when faced with an argument against you guys where you do nothing but bring Young down again and again. Fight fire with fire, I guess.

                    Frankly, my love for Rush is starting to diminish purely because of what I'm reading on these forums of what his fans are doing - don't get me wrong, I still like him a lot and Carlyle continues to be a genius, but its tainted now. The same thing happened to Beckett when his fans kept ranting about him and saying that Keller sucked, the same thing happened to Weir when her fans kept ranting about her and saying that Carter sucked, and the same thing happened to SG1/SGA when their fans won't shut up about SGU sucking ass like an ass sucker.

                    I don't know why I even bother with these threads anymore. After the first page or so they're a waste of time and bad for the blood.

                    And if a Rush fan responds to this with yet another snarky one-liner...well, I wouldn't be that surprised. Feel free to prove me wrong through.

                    Let the infraction/moderation/banishment(?) come.



                    While I have no doubt that Young would, deep down, prefer people he was more familiar with/formed an emotional bond with to survive, that's true of...well, most humans. Even Hammond of Texas admitted as such in "Heroes Part 2".

                    However, your statement "If it was someone Young didn't have a psychological connection to, he would have waved goodbye to them (maybe not happily, but he'd not have gone to the point of self- sacrifice)." has no proof whatsoever, not until he's actually done that (which would be an interesting episode in and of itself). I don't count Faith because, as Rush said, they can't lose that many people at once; Young knew that he couldn't order the civilians around, so he opted to just get the military back because they would be more willing to follow his orders.

                    And what you call guilt-tripping I can calling them out. With all due respect to TJ, while I do respect her decision, Young is also right in that she's their only medically-inclined person. They need her if they want to survive. Meanwhile, Scott is one of only 3 officers on the ship, and Greer...well, he was going to return to the ship anyway. It was a difficult situation though, to be sure.
                    I am waiting for the 'Team Rush' and 'Team Young' shirts Ange and Jen style!!
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                      #55
                      Originally posted by EllieVee
                      Right, so it's perfectly fine to vilify Rush and more particularly, his fans but Young is untouchable. That it?
                      Untouchable? Nyet. This whole thread, and many threads and posts, talks about Young and his various mistaken command decisions, and they are usually related to the topic, and not snarky one-liners that only serve to anger the blood.

                      I'm just gonna say this: from my perspective, on Gateworld, there is far less spontaneous vilification of Rush than Young, at least in the SGU general forum (it's the only SGU place I hang out at). I don't remember many instances of people coming into a Rush thread and just dropping a steaming load of snark that has nada to do with the topic other than the fact that it mentions Rush, at least not recently.

                      Feel free to prove me wrong.

                      Originally posted by Kelara View Post
                      Your argument as to why TJ especially is needed is sound. But it also holds true in reverse fashion: The people on the planet are better off with a medic than without. Same as they would be better off with at least one or two military than without any. Yet Young made them completely trade military protection for shelter. I don't know, it just does seem to me he doesn't care about those that choose to stay (which in case of "sudden religious leader guy" I can totally understand ).
                      It may be a numbers game then. There are more people on Destiny than those on the planet, and thus those on the Destiny are deemed more, uh, "worthy" (for lack of a better word) of the one single medical person that they have.

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                        #56
                        Originally posted by EllieVee
                        You know very well how respectful I am of our service people. Equating a fictional character with real service people is just silly and downright rude. I get that you like Young but I don't. I get that you don't like Rush but I do and I don't see your loathing of him as projecting onto all scientists so just pull your head in and stop projecting.

                        He may be suffering from PTSD but if that's the case then it was well prior to Icarus because he's been a nutbar since the beginning.
                        Most of the crew has suffered a severe emotional trauma so by your definition they're all nutbars. Including Young, your darling Rush, Chloe, Greer, etc.
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                          #57
                          Most of the crew has suffered a severe emotional trauma so by your definition they're all nutbars. Including Young, your darling Rush, Chloe, Greer, etc.
                          to whole thing. Oh ESA, you ESA you.
                          ~ When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take back the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! WITH THE LEMONS! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that BURNS YOUR HOUSE DOWN! ~

                          ~ Burning people! He says what we're all thinking! ~

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                            #58
                            @PG15
                            Hmm, I think, to excuse those who missed to vilify Rush, recently... He was not the one who did some not so brilliant decisions, lately. But, I do remember the times he did, people don't miss the opportunity for vilification. Go back to those episodes, you'll find those threads easy.

                            And I don't think, that all those people who like Rush more than they like Young (for whatever reason), are just talking despiteful about Young to bash the character. At least I don't want to do (and a joke from time to time must be allowed, it's not that Young supporters don't do that with Rush, and that's ok), I want to talk about the characters, not bashing them. That must include negative critic, if necessary.
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                              #59
                              Rush is a machiavellian, emotionaly scarred genius whose thunder has been stolen by a fat geek dropout. Its little wonder he's a bit testy and therefore disliked by some. FWIW I find Rush the most interesting of all the main SGU characters.
                              Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of Him, May His passing cleanse the world. May He keep the world for his people.

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                                #60
                                Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                                Hammond and Weir lost control of their bases all the time and yet kept control of them after the ordeal.
                                True it just seems neither did so because of such a grievous error in judgment on their part. Maybe I am paying closer attention now and am harder on Young?

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