Originally posted by PG15
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Young has psychologically crumbled and needs be removed from command.
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Originally posted by xxxevilgrinxxx View PostYes, this, exactly. It would be very easy and convenient to have his personal flaws forgotten about so he could be all superheroey for the episode and then go back, perhaps, to flaws afterward. It shows a lot of guts on the part of the writers to not take that easy route and to have his actions reflect those flaws at a time like this, because in a whole lot of shows, we'd never see those flaws. I really respect the writers for doing that and not only with Young, but with all the characters.
I wonder what the Young "haters" are going to say when our boy goes "dark" next season?
A "cold, dark, bloodthirsty" Young, that wants revenge!
Season 2 can't come soon enough for me!
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Originally posted by Kermee View Post
I wonder what the Young "haters" are going to say when our boy goes "dark" next season?
A "cold, dark, bloodthirsty" Young, that wants revenge!
Season 2 can't come soon enough for me!
bring on the dark, dark, darkety dark dark dark! Louis Ferreira does a pretty good serial killer....that's all I'm sayin'
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Originally posted by Kermee View Post
I wonder what the Young "haters" are going to say when our boy goes "dark" next season?
A "cold, dark, bloodthirsty" Young, that wants revenge!
Season 2 can't come soon enough for me!Originally posted by aretood2Jelgate is right
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostI'm curious: did you think this before the LA got out of the gateroom when the show was airing? Were you literally/figuratively yelling at the TV that they should hurry up and vent the air because the LA are probably carrying explosives or something?
In short, if you or I can think of it, then a military person, not even a commander, should have thought of it already, especially concerning weapons of war.
Also, Young did assume the LA were armed (mentioned in the show) and that they could get out of the Gateroom, otherwise there wouldn't have been soldiers posted around it.
About as bad as the Dr. evil plan of "I'm going to leave you here in a situation you can easily escape, and not watch you die, and trust everything will work out just fine."
Dumb. As. Hell. How bad guys have been defeated because they didn't kill the heroes straight off, and instead kept them alive? What you call an "emtional undercurrent as part of his character flaw" most people would call stupidity of the first degree. I mean, like "putting your hand on a hot stove" kind of stupid. That's just painful to watch.
But the main point I was responding to, was that it was a perfectly valid assumption to make that the LA couldn't get out of the gateroom. It wasn't.
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostI'm curious: did you think this before the LA got out of the gateroom when the show was airing? Were you literally/figuratively yelling at the TV that they should hurry up and vent the air because the LA are probably carrying explosives or something?
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Originally posted by Kaiphantom View PostWhat you call an "emtional undercurrent as part of his character flaw" most people would call stupidity of the first degree. I mean, like "putting your hand on a hot stove" kind of stupid. That's just painful to watch.
It wasn't painful for me to watch because I understood that Young's hang up on not losing people prevented him from seeing the logical course of action, and it's something that I can easily relate to (well, not the deciding-the-fate-of-people thing, but the emotional-hang-up thing).
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostI'm curious: did you think this before the LA got out of the gateroom when the show was airing? Were you literally/figuratively yelling at the TV that they should hurry up and vent the air because the LA are probably carrying explosives or something?
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostBut haven't there been moments in all of our lives when some bit of emotional bias stops us from thinking logically? I mean, call it stupidity, emotional undercurrent, whatever; it happens to all of us, no?
It wasn't painful for me to watch because I understood that Young's hang up on not losing people prevented him from seeing the logical course of action, and it's something that I can easily relate to (well, not the deciding-the-fate-of-people thing, but the emotional-hang-up thing).
Also understand that it's not just screwing up, but screwing up something he should be well-versed in. It would be like a programmer insisting on being allowed to program alone, despite the fact that his last program was a medical one and caused the death of people, because he had been coding in a hellhole for weeks straight and was very mentally stressed. I'm sure you'd agree such a person would need to step back.
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Originally posted by Kaiphantom View PostThis wasn't one mistake. This was a whole series of them. Yes, all of us screw-up, but not so repeatedly. And if you agree that he has, then you should agree with the subject of this thread... because he screwed up so badly and so often, he should step down from command. Call it a sort of vacation to ease the stress, if you will. Perhaps once he's recuperated somewhat, he can try commanding again.
Also understand that it's not just screwing up, but screwing up something he should be well-versed in. It would be like a programmer insisting on being allowed to program alone, despite the fact that his last program was a medical one and caused the death of people, because he had been coding in a hellhole for weeks straight and was very mentally stressed. I'm sure you'd agree such a person would need to step back.
Perhaps.
By himself.
No.
Should he have abandoned Rush on the planet?
No.
Then again Rush should'nt have set him up for murder.
Should he have vented the Gateroom?
Debatable, could have costed Telford life. Also intelligence was limited and was unknown that they could open doors.
Should have surrendered the ship to Kiva?
In the old days his science guy would have come up with a plan to prevent this. Didn't have one and didn't have a choice . Surrender to Kiva with a chance to get the ship back later, a gamble with a chance. Or not, and definately die. Low chance vs No chance, as a leader he did what he had to do.
Should he be replaced?
Flawed , yes. Broken nope. Replaced , definately not.
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostBut haven't there been moments in all of our lives when some bit of emotional bias stops us from thinking logically? I mean, call it stupidity, emotional undercurrent, whatever; it happens to all of us, no?
It wasn't painful for me to watch because I understood that Young's hang up on not losing people prevented him from seeing the logical course of action, and it's something that I can easily relate to (well, not the deciding-the-fate-of-people thing, but the emotional-hang-up thing).
Originally posted by Tuvok View Post...
Flawed , yes. Broken nope. Replaced , definately not.
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^Remind me to green you for that.
Originally posted by Kaiphantom View PostThis wasn't one mistake. This was a whole series of them. Yes, all of us screw-up, but not so repeatedly. And if you agree that he has, then you should agree with the subject of this thread... because he screwed up so badly and so often, he should step down from command. Call it a sort of vacation to ease the stress, if you will. Perhaps once he's recuperated somewhat, he can try commanding again.
Seriously though, I can partly agree with the thread subject. Feel free to take a look at my first post in the thread if you haven't already; it outlines what I think TPTB should have Young do.
Also understand that it's not just screwing up, but screwing up something he should be well-versed in. It would be like a programmer insisting on being allowed to program alone, despite the fact that his last program was a medical one and caused the death of people, because he had been coding in a hellhole for weeks straight and was very mentally stressed. I'm sure you'd agree such a person would need to step back.
Young is not "fundamentally" stupid - he's just working in an environment that robs him of some of his sense-making.
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Originally posted by Tuvok View PostFlawed , yes. Broken nope. Replaced , definately not.
It's easy to say "yeah, it was just a minor oopsie" when you're safe in your computer chair at home. If your life was on the line, I think you'd react a bit differently.
Originally posted by Sami_ View PostTo the people banging on about explosives may I ask what evidence you have that explosives would be effective in opening the doors, its hardly a stretch that ancients can construct blast proof doors.
Originally posted by PG15 View PostOf course we screw up repeatedly; unless we stop screwing up at some age and never do it again.
Indeed, but I feel that that's different from what you were talking about before.
Did you forget 1+1? If I told you I forgot the answer, you'd probably think me fairly stupid.
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Originally posted by Kaiphantom View PostIt's called science. *Anything* can be destroyed if you hit it hard enough. And logic; you don't build the innards of your ship out of stuff that you can't get open. Or Atlantis. A mighty city... but fragile without the shield. And we haven't come up across a piece of ancient tech that we couldn't destroy (once we got past the shields). The hardest substance we know of, Trinium, isn't indestructable, either. Carter was able to cut a hole in it, and if you can cut a hole, you can blast one.
It would certainly not be unrealistic that they are too tough to blast through without killing yourself in the process.
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