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Did Eli fix the Stasis pod or come up with another solution?

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    #46
    Originally posted by KEK View Post
    They're not using lime for the filters though, they're using that stuff they found on Novus...
    That is true, but since it's a fictitious stuff it's not possible to say what it's requirements might be.

    I don't remember there being any fuss integrating it though they just replaced one with the other no mention of having to hook up significant energy systems to make it work so my assumption is that they have similar energy needs.

    CO2 scrubbing was not part of the Destiny originally. It was added by the crew so quite unlikely to have serious power cables linked up.

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      #47
      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      No, Honestly. I have a degree in Chemistry lol. With Lime at least it's a chemical reaction no need to blow any air in to make it work.
      Thats fair enough but those are small canisters and a very big ship. Considering when they first found lime, we saw bubbles flowing through the canister I think it IS safe to say the air is pumped through. Remember, chemical or not, they have a big ships worth of air to scrub.

      Even if the ship had enough clean air spread around that Eli could move around and breath it the crew when they're awoken still need air too. By letting Eli use the remaining clean air, there is nothing or the crew when they awake. Assuming the power is out completely then the scrubbers won't kick in to clean the air before waking the crew. The ship would have to recharge first and although thats not a problem, it still kind of puts Eli in a bad position using every last ounce of air.

      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      There would only ever be one body awake on Destiny, Eli's.
      Yes but without active life support that doesn't mean he can stay alive indefinitely. Nor does it mean he can see in the dark. Remember lights use energy too. Where is that energy coming from? - They can't get torches onboard destiny and they can't use the recharging plates either so where are you going to find thie extra energy Railgun? - You seem insistant that it's there somewhere.

      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      By using the stones various experts can use his body put on the space suit and go where they like on Destiny. No extra power needed.
      How are the lights on the space suits recharged then? Where does the oxygen supply in the suits come from? Oh I forgot you don't like these tedious little details do you.

      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      Not saying they can bring anything on-board they can look at what is there and in some cases may be able to reconfigure things. For example bringing McKay he would have a better knowledge of Ancient systems and may be able to tweak something.
      McKay freaks out at his own shadow. Imagine him being onboard a ship with no-one but himself in the middle of nowhere. You can't tweak a hole in the hull by a computer, nor can you tweak knackered energy reservoirs / capacitors. Some things need good old fashioned supplies and repairs with tools. What happens when you need more than one pair of hands? Rodney can't cope without having someone else as his sidekick to do his menial tasks yet alone repair an entire ship. I agree in principle he would have been handy onboard when the crew were awake and why that was never explored is beyond me but by himself thats just a no-go IMO.

      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      Orlin built a stargate out of a toaster so anything is possible with enough knowledge and a few bits and pieces.
      Well I've never seen that but does destiny look like it needs another stargate? What it needs is POWER and somewhere to recharge from. In the middle of two galaxies, where and what are you going to manufacture a star out of bits of junk metal?

      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      Personally I think Eli probably waits it out for a year or so then makes a run on a seed ship so it can recharge and go back into FTL with a full tank of energy.
      Again, how does he wait it out for a year? The show has already explained that the ship cannot sustain life support for more than two weeks. Can you live underwater without breathing? - If you say no I will be disappointed because you know how to break the laws of physics it seems.

      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      That is true, but since it's a fictitious stuff it's not possible to say what it's requirements might be.
      So you should accept the fiction when you start talking about the lime chemical reaction and no air pumps pumping dirty air through it.

      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      I don't remember there being any fuss integrating it though they just replaced one with the other no mention of having to hook up significant energy systems to make it work so my assumption is that they have similar energy needs.
      Possibly because it was already hooked up? When you refuel your car do you disconnect the engine wiring loom and then reconnect it? No, you just take out the tanks filler cap, put the nozzle in, refuel, take out the nozzle and close the tank. The scrubbers work on a similar principle - removable canisters. The rest of it is left connected and once the canister is put back in the system gets back to work.

      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
      CO2 scrubbing was not part of the Destiny originally. It was added by the crew so quite unlikely to have serious power cables linked up.
      What? In the first episode or two they discover the air scrubbers full of sludge from where they've been there unmaintained for thousands of years. Are you now suggesting that the Icarus base crew suddenly designed the feature into the ship and built it from scratch?

      Comment


        #48
        It's not been mentioned here, I don't think, but we can surely presume that if there's any possible way of using any of the power supplies in the shuttles to help power Destiny, they will already have arranged it. And, frankly, to assume that the crew themselves didn't think of Eli spending time in the shuttle is simplistic.

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          #49
          Energizer_Vs_ZPM, I think you are too hung up on there 'being no energy'. In truth there is lots of energy.

          The energy needed to put the lights on etc.. in no way compares to the energy required to send a spaceship the size of Destiny into FTL.

          NASA calculate:

          "Sending a Shuttle-sized vehicle on a 50 year one-way trip to visit our nearest neighboring star (subrelativistic speed) would take over 7 x 10^19 Joules of energy. This is roughly the same amount of energy that the Space Shuttle’s engines would use if they ran continuously for the same duration of 50 years."
          Source: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/te...rp/scales.html

          Obviously Destiny is going much further/faster even that this and is much bigger. At these amounts of energy the tiny amounts needed for minor things like oh.. I don't know..staying alive, end up in the +or- error figure of any calculations. They would be totally insignificant.

          Even going by what you said before there is a large 'spare' quantity of energy that you haven't considered. If you are to say that putting someone into/out of stasis requires too much energy to allow for the swapping of personnel then you are also saying that the calculations that were done on energy include the energy for Eli's stasis pod, which he has been unable to use, so that energy would be available to use for life support.

          Originally posted by Quizziard View Post
          It's not been mentioned here, I don't think, but we can surely presume that if there's any possible way of using any of the power supplies in the shuttles to help power Destiny, they will already have arranged it.
          Not suggesting the shuttle would power Destiny. The shuttle would power the shuttle on minimum life support.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Railgun View Post
            Energizer_Vs_ZPM, I think you are too hung up on there 'being no energy'.
            Kettle, Pot, Black? - You're the one who can't accept what the story has told us and are finding imaginary energy all over the place.

            I'm the one who is trying to stick within the limits of the situation the story has told us. You're the one who's suggested eli live in a shuttle using a bucket for 3 long years without so much as an air filter. Apparently destiny never had air scrubbers at all until the Icarus personnel stepped through the gate and installed them and now you think that the power used for one stasis pod activation can provide life support for an entire ship for 3 years?

            You think I'm too hung up on the energy issue?

            The show makes it clear that destiny will barely have enough energy to make the jump. You are the one now stating that:
            Originally posted by Railgun View Post
            In truth there is lots of energy.
            You are unable to accept the story and facts for what it is for some reason.

            Originally posted by Railgun View Post
            The energy needed to put the lights on etc.. in no way compares to the energy required to send a spaceship the size of Destiny into FTL.
            True but it is clearly stated that destiny will barely have enough energy to make the jump. Using lights doesn't sound like much but add up all the lights and the energy consumption adds up. Multiply that by 3 years worth and destiny will be left short.

            Originally posted by Railgun View Post
            NASA calculate:
            <snip>
            Hang on, you are the one saying I'm getting too hung up on it and now you're turning to NASA calculations for something you earlier said is "ficticious stuff" ?

            Originally posted by Railgun View Post
            If you are to say that putting someone into/out of stasis requires too much energy to allow for the swapping of personnel then you are also saying that the calculations that were done on energy include the energy for Eli's stasis pod, which he has been unable to use, so that energy would be available to use for life support.
            No, you're twisting what I said. You were talking about swapping people in and out of stasis and taking turns for three years. Thats a lot of energy to be used each time you un/freeze someone in COMPARISON to just sustaining them in stasis. It does not mean that the energy of one pod is enough to keep the ship charged up with spare juice.

            Originally posted by Railgun View Post
            The shuttle would power the shuttle on minimum life support.
            We don't even know the shuttle has long term life support anyway. We've certainly never seen a toilet on it and as mentioned previously, excrement generates dangerous gasses that can kill (the same reason the toilet has a u-bend in it to prevent the gasses coming up from the sewer). I've never seen a water supply on the shuttle either. Where does the shuttle get its power from? It clearly doesn't have unlimited power otherwise destiny itself would never need to recharge in stars as it could just have the same unlimited power source as the shuttles. That leaves one conclusion - the shuttles recharge and draw power from Destiny. Thats something you can't have happening on a crucial jump with not enough power.

            Railgun, I think you're too hung up on defending your unworkable idea of living on the shuttle. It isn't practical. You're wrong about using the shuttle and I think its about time you dropped it.

            The show made quite clear that Eli needed to fix the stasis pod in order to survive by putting himself in stasis. There are two options: Fix it or find another way of preserving himself. The stargates matter stream buffer provides another alternative to the stasis pods.

            There is one other thing I thought of though.. in space there is no drag. Why does destiny need continual propulsion? - Why can't it just get going and then chop the power to the engines and glide the rest of the way as it did in Darkness (S1E4) ? - That would then allow some spare power to be left over and destiny would only need manouvering thrusters to keep it on course.

            Comment


              #51
              Are we agreed that Eli's best bet -- if he's not able to repair the stasis pod -- is to store himself in the stargate's buffer, after first writing a program to kick him out of the buffer (like happened to Teal'c in SG-1) when the ship is re-fueled (with life-support restored)?

              If yes, then the question is, does Eli have enough power for the de-materialization/transfer? He has two weeks worth of energy to feed into the stargate, but he might not even need to use that power. The gate might already have enough power stored in it. In SG-1, we learned that stargates can hold enough stored power to initiate a wormhole to another stargate. Any given stargate already holds some charge, anywhere from no power to so much power that any more will explode it. The point is, the gate aboard Destiny might already hold enough power to de-materialize Eli and later re-materialize him.

              (If anyone doubts that the gate can store Eli in its buffer without a wormhole, read post 40).

              Comment


                #52
                For some time I've had a few theories on how Eli could have survived, so I'll go through them.

                1) For one, if I was designing a spaceship like Destiny, I would not put all the stasis pods in one spot. More essential crewman would be in a separate area, perhaps a different area for security etc.. I mean Destiny is huge, there could be more stasis pods spread throughout the ship.

                2) I like the Eli uploading himself into Destiny's computer idea. If Eli did this early it would not make a huge drain on power, meaning the reserves that were set aside for his life support would no longer be needed.

                3) The aliens from "Eden", they've interfered by temporarily saving the people that stayed behind so perhaps they could take Eli for some reason and by some time travel/stasis of their own, put Eli back on Destiny after the 3 years? He would have no clue what happened and be alive.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by Energizer_Vs_ZPM View Post
                  Kettle, Pot, Black? - You're the one who can't accept what the story has told us and are finding imaginary energy all over the place.
                  lol Energizer_Vs_ZPM, most of that isn't what I actually said. In fact you got the bulk of it about 180 degrees out.

                  I know people want a cool, tech solution from Eli but it doesn't mean it's the only way to solve the problem.

                  You know he could just as easily change his mind about the whole plan. Take everyone out of stasis and tell them his new plan instead. Like a novel way to stay and fight the drones.

                  Maybe he finds a way to locate another seed ship and have it rendezvous with Destiny. Or Earth finds a way to dial the gate.

                  Originally posted by Energizer_Vs_ZPM View Post

                  There is one other thing I thought of though.. in space there is no drag. Why does destiny need continual propulsion? - Why can't it just get going and then chop the power to the engines and glide the rest of the way as it did in Darkness (S1E4) ? - That would then allow some spare power to be left over and destiny would only need manouvering thrusters to keep it on course.
                  I think the reason for this is that space is not a perfect vacuum. There will be very minute trace amounts of molecules in space, which when impacting an object will slow it down. The effect would be so weak that it would only come into play if the object were travelling very fast and very far, like This jump with Destiny.

                  It's likely on the previous jump where they glided it wasn't going so far so the effect wasn't as strong, also it would not matter if they slowed down slightly as long as the ship still reached it's destination in a reasonable time.
                  Last edited by Railgun; February 23, 2013, 07:53 PM.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Surely the more obvious explanation is that it would take too long. Destiny can't drift through space anywhere near as fast as it can in FTL. It would take hundreds of thousands of years just to cross one galaxy.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Railgun View Post
                      I think the reason for this is that space is not a perfect vacuum. There will be very minute trace amounts of molecules in space, which when impacting an object will slow it down. The effect would be so weak that it would only come into play if the object were travelling very fast and very far, like This jump with Destiny.

                      It's likely on the previous jump where they glided it wasn't going so far so the effect wasn't as strong, also it would not matter if they slowed down slightly as long as the ship still reached it's destination in a reasonable time.
                      YEah but nothing like the huge gas giant destiny decided to sail through to change its course towards a star in Light. That didn't really seem to slow Destiny down so much and that was a dense atmosphere so you're not going to find anything that serious in the vacuum of space - especially in a galaxial void where matter has had billions of years to drift towards the nearest galaxy out of the way of anything else.

                      As for being 180 out.. bit of an insult considering some of the stuff you've come up with that is unworkable. Seriously, I challenge you to live in one room with no toilet, water, light or outside contact for two weeks live with a webcam. You can't open the window for fresh air either. Perhaps then you'll see why your idea is so unworkable.

                      @Kek Why can't it drift? There is no gravity, no dense matter like air... what is to stop it? - satellites stay in orbit above earth for years with no propulsion (other than the minor course adjustment). Sure its not FTL but I don't think that light itself would cause drag on Destiny - especially when there is minimal light between galaxies and it would cause minimal drag anyway. Destiny is a big mass with a a lot of energy. It would need a substantial force to slow it down.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Destiny's FTL drive would need to be constantly on because near light speeds, the mass of an object approaches infinite. The ship would be torn apart if it were in FTL without the drive running. I'm guessing the drive forms an energy field around the ship to negate mass or something along those lines.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by kalenc View Post
                          Destiny's FTL drive would need to be constantly on because near light speeds, the mass of an object approaches infinite.
                          What object are you talking about and how on earth would it be there to create drag around the ship?

                          Originally posted by kalenc View Post
                          The ship would be torn apart if it were in FTL without the drive running.
                          When is this stated as a fact? We know it will be (theoretically) torn apart without the shields but it was never said it would be torn apart without the FTL engines running.

                          Originally posted by kalenc View Post
                          I'm guessing the drive forms an energy field around the ship to negate mass or something along those lines.
                          No need, the ship already has shields. Sorry but I don't think you're post is very credible.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            The last few posts are assuming that Destiny's main drive speeds the ship to near light-speed, or beyond it, with the ensuing mass gain to the ship. Since we don't know how it quite works, it could be that it moves the vessel entirely out of normal space, at least partially. Either method would require continuous power, hence the three years to cross the galaxy and two weeks before Eli becomes a lump in the corridor, waiting to be found as a husk.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by Quizziard View Post
                              The last few posts are assuming that Destiny's main drive speeds the ship to near light-speed, or beyond it
                              The show does explain that the ship uses Faster Than Light engines (which they then abbreviate to FTL). Faster Than Light I would take to mean just that - faster than light or.. faster than 186,000 miles per second.

                              The only real thing I can think of that could be a mild issue is the stuff that destiny deflects as it flies through space.. the colourful stuff. I always thought this was just light itself being deflected as there isn't supposed to be anything else in a space vacuum and this was one of the things that instantly came across as wrong when the show first hit our screens.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Brother Freyr View Post
                                Are we agreed that Eli's best bet -- if he's not able to repair the stasis pod -- is to store himself in the stargate's buffer, after first writing a program to kick him out of the buffer (like happened to Teal'c in SG-1) when the ship is re-fueled (with life-support restored)?
                                NOpe/ As i mentioned before, both with the Teal'c incident and in 38 minutes (SGA) the gate storing the data was cause it received it via an incoming wormhole. i cannot remember us diaing out to store something, just the connect up we used to REINTEGRATE teal'c..
                                So the fact remains, he still won't get into the gate to be stored.

                                2) I like the Eli uploading himself into Destiny's computer idea. If Eli did this early it would not make a huge drain on power, meaning the reserves that were set aside for his life support would no longer be needed.
                                That would then mean he has no body, and is in a similar boat as Ginn/Mandy...

                                Plus all the computers got shut down.. So to power the chair up to store him may take a good chunk of his reserves.

                                3) The aliens from "Eden", they've interfered by temporarily saving the people that stayed behind so perhaps they could take Eli for some reason and by some time travel/stasis of their own, put Eli back on Destiny after the 3 years? He would have no clue what happened and be alive.
                                Too deus ex machina for me.. And they didn't save them.. even temporarily.. They just reconstructed them, and they still died.

                                I know people want a cool, tech solution from Eli but it doesn't mean it's the only way to solve the problem.

                                You know he could just as easily change his mind about the whole plan. Take everyone out of stasis and tell them his new plan instead. Like a novel way to stay and fight the drones.
                                That might be a decent way to go about it.. Stp the ship, pull everyone out of stasis, and reverse course..

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