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Did Eli fix the Stasis pod or come up with another solution?

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    Originally posted by garhkal View Post
    how much power would that take though?
    Might not matter, if the show were to come back it would explain their longer than planned trip. This is of course assuming Destiny has safety protocols that would drop them out of FTL, before it hit a critical power situation. ie, Destiny calculates how much power it would require to keep the stasis pods active and enough power to enter a star to recharge in the next galaxy.

    Comment


      I dont think we can keep calling the Destiny operating system a computer tbh, its shown semi sentience itself and has the sentient personalities of 3 maybe 4 people jumbling around inside of it.

      Hell, maybe it/they if its operating as a gestalt, will figure it out either for Eli or with him.

      N.C

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        Since at least 2 of them are in "quarantine" (ginn and mandy) that just leaves franklin, and MAYBE rush's wife if she somehow got uploaded from his mind..

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          Originally posted by rushy View Post
          If they had access to a healthy Ginn body, wouldn't they transfer Ginn's consciousness from the Destiny mainframe over to Ginn's body??

          As for "the Franklin Procedure", I believe it'd be possible to re-construct the body. This is Ancient tech after all. The only reason I think they didn't use it to restore Franklin was because he was technically dead.
          They said they stoped at the nexted inhabitable planted and buried her , he said it was a beautiful service. So there was no body by the time the knew her consciousness was in Chloe

          Comment


            Wish I had read this thread back when I started to write my fanfic and had to ponder much these same questions!

            But first allow me to list the few known in-universe facts about Destiny's FTL engines:

            * Just 1 of 'em stopping drops the whole circus out of FTL. The way it happened could point to safety concerns, tho. Their efficiency also affects overall speed.

            * Their continuous glow plus the "cooldown" window hint at the engines working all the time while in FTL, and needing some rest, or at least an elaborate "shutdown" procedure. Could be construed as time spent on an elaborate "restart" procedure, but that doesn't quite jibe with all the "lets jump to FTL now" scenes. Plus, those in the know have told us that no energy for FTL means no FTL. Thus, the chances of "coasting" in FTL after an initial "push" look slim.

            * Big enough masses/gravities disrupt FTL "magic" enough to force a stop. Could be changes in the math of it, or the amount of fuel spent per ly, or just a safety measure. But means there must be a minimum not-so-small unavoidable distance when approaching a star for recharge (rats, I liked that idea). Also that "ramming" things while in FTL would have consequences proportional to their mass. Bearable for a drone, or perhaps a small asteroid, not so much for a big MotherShip. It would have been too awesome if it worked.

            * Also, the distance between stars in a typical galaxy is big enough (unless near its core) that it shouldn't be hard to thread an FTL route avoiding their gravity. There's a whole lot more void space than stars out there. In some cases it might be preferable to "hop" above the galactic plane to skip dense regions, but the height of such a hop would always be small compared to its length, thus minimizing fuel expenditures.

            * Destiny can be steered to some extent while in FTL? Yay!

            * Realspace speed doesn't seem to be related to FTL speed. Ouch!

            * Anything not firmly clamped to the hull and shielded risks being atomized (quark-ized?) by the FTL "field". Same for anything caught inside its volume while it forms, or attempting to enter it. Add to that the "FTL lights" effect, as if some distortion or lensing is at play, and it looks like something happens to spacetime in there. Yet sensors, comms, the Stones, and everything work as if the ship is still "connected" to normal spacetime.

            Warp drives match the data. Not the Star Trek ones, but rather an Ancient version of an Alcubierre drive. Thus Destiny would actually be surfing a spacetime "FTL wave", all cozy inside an almost-impregnable "warp bubble"... as long as the engines and the shields work. P-}

            As a side note, I get the impression Destiny doesn't slow down when skimming a star. If the star's gravity is allowed to work all the way in, there'd be no trouble achieving escape velocity afterwards, either. Also, hydrogen might be easier to grab, and could be a handy fallback (haven't the Ancients learnt nothing from their many other overconfidence-fueled mistakes? hmmm), but hot plasma is what the game is about, likely using some novel Ancient procedures we Tau'ri have yet to fathom. Subspace Quantum Mashup, maybe? Who knows!?

            The show's writers, that's who. None of the above, nor concerns about actual energy constraints, for that matter, precludes 'em from crafting whatever solution is best for Eli's predicament. They could get away with almost anything they dared throw at us, and all we'd say would be "please can I have another?"

            Which leads me to ponder the criterions they'd use for choosing one of the many available options: shuttle, buffer, pod, chair, the AI, engine trickstery, stowaways, Gaters, boarders, Builders, et al.

            I'd hazard anything the crew (and SGC) knows and should have been already tried would be too lame. I.e: Rush wouldn't hesitate to try "buffering" Young, I bet. If Young refused, Rush would choose the Chair for himself, without a doubt. Same goes for any insufficiently foreshadowed deus-ex-machinas.

            That leaves the Gate. The shuttle, too, in theory, but the "result" would be pretty much the same. And the Gate is cooler.

            What result, you ask? Well, anything short of a riveting awesome Season-3 opener would be a sadly wasted opportunity, wouldn't it?

            "Solutions" easily explained in a few words/scenes wouldn't fit that bill, not really. Eli somehow uploaded and trapped inside Destiny's systems/robots could allow for some interesting developments, provided there's hope of his being returned to normal someday. Same with his being "magically" teleported somewhere else. Alas, SGC managing to send people/supplies on time has been practically ruled out.

            But it's been said the only alternative to the pod is death. He still volunteered. That's a powerful clue that it needs to be his choice. Keep up or else! And we want to know what he'd do, don't we? Else we'd always wonder...

            Luckily, he has a handy "else", provided he's willing to sacrifice most everything: he can just abandon ship, try his luck adventuring (as David Blue suggested) along the Gate Network, perhaps hoping to find a way to safely return, or an undestroyed Novan city, or something/someone who helps him jump to the next galaxy, maybe. Anything -- literally -- is possible!

            Eli will be "dead" to his friends, his family, his mother, his love... but still alive and kicking/Gating. There's worse destinies! And the clincher IMHO is that we know (with 99.99% certainty) neither Young nor Rush would be able to choose that. Only Eli, our everyday hero.

            If I can choose between him fixing that inopportune pod, or some fascinating new Stargate-powered adventures, I know what I'd rather watch.
            Last edited by plumber; March 28, 2018, 07:12 PM.

            Comment


              The idea I've had in my head for years that I quite like (and if I ever had time to fully flesh it out would write as a story) is that the broken pod was a ruse; Eli fake-sabotaged it to be the last one awake on the ship.

              The reason he does this would be that when he went to Earth to check the math on his plan with Homeworld Command, they told him they had a plan to reverse engineer Destiny's star power system and use it to connect with Destiny but needed his help to do it. Since everyone would be asleep for 3 years they could have the time to develop the system.

              I pictured it that once Eli was the only one awake, he would use the communication stones to swap bodies so he could be on Earth for the three years while someone else (Telford makes the most sense to me, as a penance for his past actions) slept in his place. Based on the episode where Homeworld Command was attacked by the Lucian Alliance we know the stone feed can be manipulated, so I would have them doing that to make the connection more permanent while Eli's body is in stasis.

              Comment


                OK, new theory; Eli alters the FTL drive to travel at exactly the speed of light and disables the ancient tech that controls time at FTL and sets the ship computer to automatically slow down on arrival in the next galaxy.

                Whilst it will take longer to get to the next galaxy time will stand still for Eli during the voyage. For Eli it would be as if he had stepped through a gate and instantly arrived however time is relative and time elsewhere would have continued for many years not knowing what had happened to Destiny.

                This plays nicely into the big gap since the last episode if anyone wanted to start it up again. Any aging of the characters other than Eli could be put down to something to do with the pods.

                Why does this work?:
                As far as our present level of science we believe that it is not possible to travel faster than light. In SGU we accept for plot reasons that ancient technology allows this and also that time continues to progress on a ship in FTL. However this is not what science tells us can happen. Science tells us that the speed of light is the maximum speed possible and that at that speed time will stand still on-board. To reconcile these things we must assume that the ancient FTL drive is also able to manipulate time on board the ship whilst in FTL.

                Since this is a feature of the technology it can be disabled and if anyone can do this it's Eli (or Rush but he's in stasis). Once disabled the laws of physics as we know them mean that time will stand still for Eli at light speed.

                No need for Eli to fix the stasis pod.

                It's also possible they could tweak this to let Eli travel faster than light but have control of time onboard by hacking the system so he could maybe do some stuff investigating the ship till the supplies run out.

                I think this is a nice solution because we do not have to just abandon the real physics that we know. We can say that perhaps our understanding of this is not completely right and there is a possibility that an advanced alien race could have proved that travelling faster than light is possible but that there is a plausible reason as to why time is not behaving as we would expect in the series due to this tech, but when the tech is switched off we can then see what we expect to happen to time.

                There have been other ancient time devices so not such a big leap that the ancients could posses such technology and use in the FTL drive.
                Last edited by Railgun; May 24, 2019, 04:12 PM.

                Comment


                  I just know that someone is going to ask why the stasis pods are there then.

                  I guess there are a few possible reasons for this.

                  Destiny will not spend all time in FTL so on a long journey you don't really know what might happen to time if the ship is dropping out to refuel/explore etc...

                  There may be other people on board who are not in stasis and the time effect would need to be countered for them using technology which may mean time progressing normally across the whole ship.

                  It's also plausible that at FTL speeds time actually travels backwards without time modification technology.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Railgun View Post
                    It's also plausible that at FTL speeds time actually travels backwards without time modification technology.
                    Interesting theory you have but one flaw I can find, the time ''dilation'' doesn't affect those on board Destiny, time flows as usual. Just like if you'd go near a blackhole you wouldn't see any difference, but an outside observer would.
                    Spoiler:
                    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

                    Comment


                      Yes, You are right. It may be a step to far for physics as we understand it to say backwards time travel is possible in this circumstance.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

                      However, in the show we have seen backwards time travel before. I guess there is a bit of a leap of faith required but backward time travel is canon because they have already done it in the show by other means. The question of if this method of attaining backward time travel is possible in show would be up to the artistic licence of the show creators I guess.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Railgun View Post
                        However, in the show we have seen backwards time travel before. I guess there is a bit of a leap of faith required but backward time travel is canon because they have already done it in the show by other means. The question of if this method of attaining backward time travel is possible in show would be up to the artistic licence of the show creators I guess.
                        How, though, would that work on a moving ship? When Carter reversed time in "Unending" everything in the time dilation field reversed including the Odyssey and the Ori beam. If the Destiny is traveling through space and time is just reversing for the people within the ship, they're going to have a problem. Maybe the people in the stasis pods won't, but only if time doesn't reverse past the point where they went in them. Eli and anyone else you imagine not being in stasis are going to have a serious problem right away.

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                          I would suggest though that Destiny FTL drive must have the technology included to induce a time dilation field in the ship and control it such that time appears to run normally in FTL(as otherwise it would not, at light speed anyway, who knows what would actually happen at faster than light). This technology will come with safeguards to prevent the negative consequences that you mention.

                          By hacking this time dilation technology Eli could potentially be able to slightly manipulate time on board the ship whilst having to make sure he did not do something catastrophic by reversing his own timeline too far.

                          Comment


                            He'd reverse his own timeline too far instantaneously, though. If the entire universe rewinds while a person is on Earth, that person and the Earth will travel back to a previous point in space and time. If a person rewinds and the Earth doesn't, that person will very shortly be in the air (or in the ground), then burning up in the atmosphere, then matter floating in space. The Earth will continue its forward orbit around the sun, while the person will be moving back to a previous point in the Earth's orbit, without the Earth.

                            Similarly, if the Destiny is flying at light speeds, it doesn't matter if a person is standing still, they're going to return to a previously traveled point in space. Obviously, we're talking about a field here, so it wouldn't just impact a person, it would impact the ship as well. If the field extends to the whole ship (both its interior and exterior) the ship would (like the Odyssey) be flying backwards. If it just extends to the interior of the ship, what is likely to happen is that the engines will push the outer hull forward while the interior is pushed backward and the entire ship would be instantly destroyed.

                            It's extremely possible that a TV show would pretend like that's not a problem, just as Stargate has done about countless things, like the trope where someone can walk through walls but doesn't fall through the floor. But if the ship's technology is said to prevent what I described from happening, then time is not being reversed. To go back to the person on Earth example: Technology that keeps a person on the ground as they reverse their previous actions while the Earth's orbit continues forward is technology that is actively putting a person in spaces they have not previously been. That's not time reversal technology + an "inhibitor field" (or whatever one might imagine), it's... I don't know how to describe that any other way than to say it's a spell.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                              He'd reverse his own timeline too far instantaneously, though. If the entire universe rewinds while a person is on Earth, that person and the Earth will travel back to a previous point in space and time. If a person rewinds and the Earth doesn't, that person will very shortly be in the air (or in the ground), then burning up in the atmosphere, then matter floating in space. The Earth will continue its forward orbit around the sun, while the person will be moving back to a previous point in the Earth's orbit, without the Earth.

                              Similarly, if the Destiny is flying at light speeds, it doesn't matter if a person is standing still, they're going to return to a previously traveled point in space. Obviously, we're talking about a field here, so it wouldn't just impact a person, it would impact the ship as well. If the field extends to the whole ship (both its interior and exterior) the ship would (like the Odyssey) be flying backwards. If it just extends to the interior of the ship, what is likely to happen is that the engines will push the outer hull forward while the interior is pushed backward and the entire ship would be instantly destroyed.

                              It's extremely possible that a TV show would pretend like that's not a problem, just as Stargate has done about countless things, like the trope where someone can walk through walls but doesn't fall through the floor. But if the ship's technology is said to prevent what I described from happening, then time is not being reversed. To go back to the person on Earth example: Technology that keeps a person on the ground as they reverse their previous actions while the Earth's orbit continues forward is technology that is actively putting a person in spaces they have not previously been. That's not time reversal technology + an "inhibitor field" (or whatever one might imagine), it's... I don't know how to describe that any other way than to say it's a spell.
                              How would Eli be able to access such technology though? The Time Dilation device was created by the Asgards, a civilizations much more advanced than Destiny's level of tech, they'd need to gate it back on board.

                              Here's another question, would the whole universe be willing to reverse time for the sake of a few lives on board Destiny?
                              Spoiler:
                              I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
                                How would Eli be able to access such technology though? The Time Dilation device was created by the Asgards, a civilizations much more advanced than Destiny's level of tech, they'd need to gate it back on board.
                                Railgun's supposition is that the technology already exists in the Destiny. Technically, the Ancients also invented time dilation technology (or perhaps originally invented it as the Asgard may gotten the knowledge from the Ancient database), but we only know that they could do that 10,000 years ago, not however many tens of millions of years ago the Destiny was created.

                                I chose to ignore that point and simply assume that it was possible for the sake of argument as I am more interested in discussing the logistics of a time reversal field within a forward moving ship.

                                Here's another question, would the whole universe be willing to reverse time for the sake of a few lives on board Destiny?
                                If time is reversing for the whole universe it wouldn't really matter. Once it stops reversing everything is going to play out exactly as it did previously unless the crew of the Destiny are aware of the reversal and make contact with someone outside of their ship earlier than they otherwise would have. In that case, they'd initiate a butterfly effect scenario where their small communication creates a ripple that will lead to bigger changes over time.

                                Also, if time is reversing for the entire universe that would mean that the time reversal field doesn't just exist within the Destiny and if it doesn't exist within the Destiny, the Destiny itself would be flying backward in space, thus negating the reason why Railgun suggested it. He was trying to come up with a way for the Destiny to reach the next galaxy without Eli or anyone else who might end up awake having to die.

                                A time dilation field would sufficiently do that, so I'm not sure why he brought the concept of time reversal into this.

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