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SGU, by far the most underrated series.

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    Originally posted by psl1 View Post
    Actually the point that’s being made is that in spite of all these short comings, this show actually works.
    The show works *for you* and thats cool, as I said before.
    For me I still can't bring myself to watch SG1 and SGA. They are just to lame for me but SGU actually works ,rules or not. Infact that is one of the ways you define great work- that it works in spite of the rules.
    It did not work, sorry, but it didn't.

    You are going to have to accept that these scripting rules that you live by are at best transitory in nature.At best you are going to have to play catch up to keep up with us.
    So, the argument now becomes "SGU was too revolutionary for everyone else?"


    I spoke with my son who is a script writer and he confirmed my suspicions. These rules are industry generated to develop formulae to try to mass produce quality. The rules are only valid until someone breaks them and makes it work in the medium of choice.
    I can agree with that actually.

    In game design those games that break these rules become the breakthrough games that everyone wants to play and everyone keeps. Funny thing is those games also often are not big sellers because they are only really appreciate by the aficionados in the field. A niche market.
    Umm
    Everyone wants to play and keep = a Niche market??
    No.

    For anyone who wants to examine stream of consciousness in other mediums look at music. Artist like Bob Dylan, David Byrne , Peter Gabriel , U2 , Jethro Tull & YES etc have all used it successfully. Hell Even Cream’s "tales of Brave Ulysses" is stream of consciousness and it works!!!
    Weather I happen to like any of those artists is irrelavent, what is relavent is that they were/are succesful. I can't stand Michael Jackson's music, but to say he was not a talented performer and musician would be foolish. My personal like or dislike simply does not matter.
    I would let it all go if not for the fact that this type of industry formulization of the medium & the genre have suffocated and killed the originality in Syfi in the past. They will do it again.
    Again, this is not what I am talking about. You are talking about a *method* such as "cop procedurals", I am talking even before that structure is even considered.
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      SGU was far from a revolutionary production. It actually wrote from a pretty old school serial. It wasn't anything new, didn't do anything differently. It just didn't create this old school 'world' in a way that was also fresh. It built on cliche, and that probably would have been okay if they didn't take themselves so seriously.

      As for your son the scriptwriter, he is right and he is wrong. The question is whether someone is writing something niche or writing something universally mainstream. People write niche stuff all the time, and hey *effectively* mess with the rules of narrative and film structure. Structure and rules exist even when broken. In the case of SGU they targeted a mainstream audience, not a niche one, and in that regard they failed.

      I would let it all go if not for the fact that this type of industry formulization of the medium & the genre have suffocated and killed the originality in Syfi in the past. They will do it again.
      Don't blame structure for that. Originality exists in all structure. Structure is just the building blocks that necessitate a strong, weather proof building. The architect can create anything they like once hey have a strong foundation, assuming that the client (network and studio) want to buy it, that the builders can build it at the budget, and that it is intriguing enoug to keep people looking. Independant productions have far more leeway in answering a these questions.

      Structure isn't some kind of industry misnomer that will destroy the creative world. A lot of the structure wih have in writing was built by people such as Socretes and been expanded on. Structure doesn't stagnant creativity, but it does help mold it and visa versa. But without understanding the foundations, messing with those building blocks can cause the finished product to collapse.

      In the end, I very much doubt we are going to agree on this topic. But thanks for the interesting ideas you've put forward. I appreciate that!
      Last edited by Deevil; June 19, 2012, 03:12 AM.
      Disclaimer: All opinions stated within this post are relevant to the author herself, and do not in any way represent the opinions of God, Country, The Powers That Be or Greater Fandom.

      Any resemblance to aforementioned opinions are purely coincidental.

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        I had never even heard of SG1 and SGA before I watched SGU. I started watching SGU about half way through the 1st season because there was nothing decent on TV that night and I instantly fell in love. I then went out and bought the entire series when it was over and plan to eventually start watching SG1 and SGA. Stargate Universe is what gave me the love of Sci Fi and I have gone on to enjoy other shows such as Star Trek The next generation and Voyager. The ending of SGU was to me was bittersweet as I thought it was one of the most beautiful endings I'd ever seen but Eli was my favourite character and I couldnt bear the thought he might die.

        I'm counting down till 2014, I still have hope.

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          Originally posted by fatty.mcninja View Post
          I know I'm in the smallest minority ever here, but I would easily trade all of SGA for more SGU. For me, SGU is the pinnacle of the franchise. Sacrilege, I know.
          I think it was the pinnacle of the genre. True science fiction with a true sense of wonder and exploration. You could tell it was the writers doing what they really wanted to do, give science fiction on TV a literary quality. It was so refreshing. I'm rewatching old star treks and Bab5 and even those had that very unnatural speech that had to say everything out loud. I love them but SGU is the natural evolution that took the genre up to the level we always knew it could go. The only thing currently that fills the void left by SGU is reading cerebral science fiction. Nothing on TV captures that sense of wonder.
          I love SGU and I even like the other two SGU prequel shows

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            Originally posted by Skiznot View Post
            I think it was the pinnacle of the genre. True science fiction with a true sense of wonder and exploration. You could tell it was the writers doing what they really wanted to do, give science fiction on TV a literary quality. It was so refreshing. I'm rewatching old star treks and Bab5 and even those had that very unnatural speech that had to say everything out loud. I love them but SGU is the natural evolution that took the genre up to the level we always knew it could go. The only thing currently that fills the void left by SGU is reading cerebral science fiction. Nothing on TV captures that sense of wonder.


            Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself.
            SGU. Best Sci-fi show to come along in decades.

            Comment


              For me I kind of see SG-1 and SGU on the same level, just for different reasons. SG-1 is legendary in it's own right because it built off of the mythos from the motion picture and it ran for so long. Anderson, Shanks, Judge and Tapping were pillars of the Stargate franchise (evident in the fact that they all made appearances in the subsequent series, sans Judge in SGU). The original idea that Emmerich and Devlin put on the big screen absolutely exploded with SG-1. Yes, at times it was a little cheesy and some of the episodes may have been sub-par, but the overall story was extremely deep, rich and well-rounded.

              I feel as though compared to SGA, SGU followed in SG-1's footsteps the best. Maybe not at face-value, but with the compelling storyline (both the overarching serialized plot and the episodic sub plots), enriching the back story of the gate builders with this mysterious derelict ship on the other side of the known universe. The series' untimely demise is just plain shameful, the direction it was headed and the potential it contained was incredible.

              SGA, while technically my "gateway" into the franchise and still a reasonably entertaining series to watch, pales in comparison to the other two. I do appreciate how they expanded on the progressive development of the Ancient's story, their technology and culture leading up to their ascension though. It ultimately came across a bit more superficial than the other two series' which left the viewer less involved.

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                I know what you mean Aesop, I remember how much I loved SG-1 back in it's day. Watched it over and over. I was excited when Atlantis came along but after a while it went flat for me. Can't say exactly what went wrong there, I even bought the complete Atlantis set to see if I had missed something, apparently not. Liked the characters very much, but something about the story line lost momentum I guess.

                I did not even know SGU was coming until it premiered, since I had lost interest in Stargate at that point. My brother pointed it out to me. I was hooked right away and loved it. It's a big disappointment that it was cancelled just as all these elements had been set in place, I was very excited to see where things where going.
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                  Sounds like SG1 was to you- what Star Trek was to our Gen [worts and all].
                  SGU. Best Sci-fi show to come along in decades.

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                    Originally posted by psl1 View Post
                    Sounds like SG1 was to you- what Star Trek was to our Gen [worts and all].
                    Haha! I started out with the original Star Trek, I'm soooo old! I wouldn't say I was a Trekkie, but it's part of the backdrop of my life, the whole scifi scene. I don't know, I just move along as the shows progress, some speak to me, others don't.

                    My brother and I used to play Star Trek, make communicators and tricorders out of blocks of wood, and draw the controls on them. He's 3 years older than I, so he always got to be Capt. Kirk!
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                      So if he was Captain Kirk who were you? Spock?
                      SGU. Best Sci-fi show to come along in decades.

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                        Originally posted by jeri View Post
                        I know what you mean Aesop, I remember how much I loved SG-1 back in it's day. Watched it over and over. I was excited when Atlantis came along but after a while it went flat for me. Can't say exactly what went wrong there, I even bought the complete Atlantis set to see if I had missed something, apparently not. Liked the characters very much, but something about the story line lost momentum I guess.

                        I did not even know SGU was coming until it premiered, since I had lost interest in Stargate at that point. My brother pointed it out to me. I was hooked right away and loved it. It's a big disappointment that it was cancelled just as all these elements had been set in place, I was very excited to see where things where going.
                        I am sure many of us were very upset that SGU never got to tell more of its story. A lot of great stories were left untold IMO. Really, their adventure was just beginning.
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                          Originally posted by jeri View Post
                          I know what you mean Aesop, I remember how much I loved SG-1 back in it's day. Watched it over and over. I was excited when Atlantis came along but after a while it went flat for me. Can't say exactly what went wrong there, I even bought the complete Atlantis set to see if I had missed something, apparently not. Liked the characters very much, but something about the story line lost momentum I guess.

                          I did not even know SGU was coming until it premiered, since I had lost interest in Stargate at that point. My brother pointed it out to me. I was hooked right away and loved it. It's a big disappointment that it was cancelled just as all these elements had been set in place, I was very excited to see where things where going.
                          SG-1 was the first show I really got hooked on since Star Trek TOS, also DS9, which for me was to Star Trek as SGU was to Stargate, the less popular series, but the one that made a brave move in a darker direction, shaking up the familiar beliefs and morals of the Trek and Stargate universes respectively.

                          I feel the same way about SGA as you, I can't put my finger on what it is that is wrong about it for me either. I'm going through it with the rewatch and have started season two. First time round I got bored with SGA half way through the second season. I'm trying to see if I feel any different with actually watching every episode past the middle of season 2.

                          I started watching SGU because it was more Stargate, and hoped it would be different after the disappointment of SGA. I really didn't know what to make of it for the first half of season one, it certainly was different in many ways. The way it was filmed, the way the characters behaved and reacted to things. It broke away from the familiar path of SG-1 and SGA, and I guess it took me a little time to actually take in what they were doing. By the latter part of season one I was hooked, season 2 just got better and better with each episode.

                          By the time it ended I was just totally baffled as to why ratings fell, leading to cancellation, I guess not enough people felt the same way as I did, simple as that! There was so much potential for great stories with the flawed yet brave, caring characters facing the situations they could never have imagined facing in their own ways. This made SGU more intense and gave us less predicable scenarios than the other two series', due to the nature of the people and what they were facing without the touchstones of home being available to them.

                          The stones were a bad idea for this reason for me, they took a lot away from the idea that they were totally cut off from everything they knew. How they adapted and reacted to life on Destiny, trying to hold on to what they knew yet having to change despite this is what made SGU so interesting to watch for me. It's a shame SGU was so underrated, it had a great underlying current of fear, yet such hope which could have led to some more great moments of tragedy and triumph such as we saw in 'Epilogue'.

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                            Originally posted by Gen. Chris View Post
                            I wouldn't trade the 140 episodes of SG-1 seasons 9-10 and all of SGA for a mere 20 episodes of SGU...


                            I enjoyed SGU but I don't think it is worth a fifth of one show and an entirety of another...
                            Personally looking back at it all,

                            I liked Browder performance but they should have left it at the Time Travel episodes and brought in SGU in place of SG1 S9 and 10 around 2007ish so I would trade those otherwise

                            This would have been alongside S3 of SGA, that way we are getting the new style of SG alongside the more traditional style.

                            SGU could have built itself up in its first few seasons and then as SGA wound up in S5 or 6 alongside SGU seasons 2 or 3 and then acted as the pinnacle as Stars from the first two franchises make guest appearances in the latter stages of SGU

                            Personally I reckon the Ori storyline belonged in the SGA Universe

                            This really was a negative perfect storm, from changes in the DVD market and crossing over into streaming (SGU would have killed it in the streaming era), the USD/CAD fluctuation, MGM Bankruptcy, sloppy transition from SGA to SGU which disgruntled fans and so SGA fans didn't get a proper finish either because they Trolled SGU without comprehending what the consequences would be

                            But if SU started in 2007 it would have been in S4 by the time all the crap happened

                            If it has started after S8 of SGU

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                              Originally posted by Krisz View Post
                              SG-1 was the first show I really got hooked on since Star Trek TOS, also DS9, which for me was to Star Trek as SGU was to Stargate, the less popular series, but the one that made a brave move in a darker direction, shaking up the familiar beliefs and morals of the Trek and Stargate universes respectively.

                              I feel the same way about SGA as you, I can't put my finger on what it is that is wrong about it for me either. I'm going through it with the rewatch and have started season two. First time round I got bored with SGA half way through the second season. I'm trying to see if I feel any different with actually watching every episode past the middle of season 2.

                              I started watching SGU because it was more Stargate, and hoped it would be different after the disappointment of SGA. I really didn't know what to make of it for the first half of season one, it certainly was different in many ways. The way it was filmed, the way the characters behaved and reacted to things. It broke away from the familiar path of SG-1 and SGA, and I guess it took me a little time to actually take in what they were doing. By the latter part of season one I was hooked, season 2 just got better and better with each episode.

                              By the time it ended I was just totally baffled as to why ratings fell, leading to cancellation, I guess not enough people felt the same way as I did, simple as that! There was so much potential for great stories with the flawed yet brave, caring characters facing the situations they could never have imagined facing in their own ways. This made SGU more intense and gave us less predicable scenarios than the other two series', due to the nature of the people and what they were facing without the touchstones of home being available to them.

                              The stones were a bad idea for this reason for me, they took a lot away from the idea that they were totally cut off from everything they knew. How they adapted and reacted to life on Destiny, trying to hold on to what they knew yet having to change despite this is what made SGU so interesting to watch for me. It's a shame SGU was so underrated, it had a great underlying current of fear, yet such hope which could have led to some more great moments of tragedy and triumph such as we saw in 'Epilogue'.
                              Was thinking about this all recently,

                              Thing with SGA it's great as they get all that fancy tech City and then have a problem with...Space Vampires

                              For mine they simply didn't explore how the City tied in with the journey of the "Ancients" and ascension and all the rest. They simply want the fancy tech to give an edge and a power agenda and have to deal with the "nuisance" of the Wraith at the same time

                              What I think would have been a better fit was to have the Ori come into the SGA Universe instead of the SG1, they were antagonists but there is a different path and degree of ascension and it would have made sense to delve into how the Ancients went from so radically tech-oriented to completely "spiritual" to the point where they are a higher "vibration" than the "religious bigots" despite being so clearly materialistic like the Asgard

                              Plus they had some fairly mega abilities which is where finding a solution with the mega tech comes in

                              As for SGU, I completely love the distinction in tone, camera styles etc, the CGI was excellent, though in order to introduce such a radical change they needed to run this alongside SGA so fans of the traditional style aren't put out

                              I liked SG1 and SGA but love SGU as I find it so much more immersive, plus they are delving into the deep psyche of humanity which doesen't change regardless of how much High Tech surrounds you, so I quite like the mutiny episode for example and the Lucian Alliance as adversaries and even Frenemies are as engaging as the Aliens

                              Even going back to the earlier point about SGA, I liked the S2 Antagonists of Tech Drones, the psyche of the Civilisation that built them figured Tech would be their saviour but they died out anyway and the Tech outlived them, I like this theme which is why I didn't mind the SG1 Replicators and for same reason I like Weyland and David8 of Prometheus/Alien lore. Even though Dr Kane et al died off they did touch on the issue of Faith vs Tech and this should have been brought into SGA more and given focus via the Ori. Would have been nice to see Ori vs Wraith too...

                              First half of season 1 is getting to grips with the fundamentals and the Long-haul. I don't mind the Stones, they go into scenarios where they don't have them and how they did let Earth go and build new civilisations etc, but the main line has to tie into Earth so that it can tie into the other Franchises still. they probably would have figured a way to go back and forth like with SGA in the latter seasons

                              I did find the whole "other body" thing with the Stones could have turned from novelty to creepy and even disturbing, so perhaps meld the Stones with that mimmicking device of those Aliens who gained a foothold and made it look like O'Neill shot the Senator and you can switch mind but also adjust the appearance too

                              Once it founds its feet though that show really gained some great momentum, such a shame it was right in the transition moment of Cable + DVD into Streaming, its Torrent download rates were impressive

                              This may seem outlandish, but I felt it was on a par with Game of Thrones at the time which also got highly torrented and SGU could have broken out of the genre as it similarly is an engaging Drama set in a Sci Fi Universe whereas GoT was an engaging Medieval drama set in a Fantasy Universe

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