Do people even know what Science Fiction is?

[Brian]

Sci-fi is...Metropolis, Forbidden Planet, Lost in Space...and a huge list of other things. I get a kick out of the people that say that too k1037, but I just use the 3 words that get me through life...people are stupid. Most of the people saying it are probably kids-20s ish that don't know any better. I have countless times had discussions and debates and arguments with young people (yes I'm one of them but like to consider myself smarter haha) and even people just a year or two younger than me are complete buffoons! It's just our society swirling lower and lower towards the drain hole.

[Petra]

Sci-fi is...Metropolis, Forbidden Planet, Lost in Space...and a huge list of other things. I get a kick out of the people that say that too k1037, but I just use the 3 words that get me through life...people are stupid. Most of the people saying it are probably kids-20s ish that don't know any better. I have countless times had discussions and debates and arguments with young people (yes I'm one of them but like to consider myself smarter haha) and even people just a year or two younger than me are complete buffoons! It's just our society swirling lower and lower towards the drain hole.

That's interesting, because I've observed the exact opposite, especially in Stargate fandom. People in their 20s are more open minded, better versed in science fiction and better acquainted with its original spirit - all the stuff OP mentioned in the first post of this thread - than older folks. I've also noticed that many of those older (not "old" ) fans don't like to watch serious sci-fi that makes viewers think because they either equate sci-fi with mindless action set in space, aliens and heroes designed only to entertain or they believe that said serious sci-fi should be left for books only, since tv isn't sufficient/good enough media to convey complexities of literary science-fiction. In other words, tv shows are good only for escapism.

Personally I think it shows a generation gap, because younger people grew up watching tv shows which were becoming more and more complex and ambitious, aspiring to ask difficult questions which used to be reserved only for the movies and theatre. They expect tv to be difficult and to make them think. And folks 30/40+, raised on relatively mindless, schematic early tv, expect only escapism and easy entertainment.

Of course I have no intention of generalising, nor do I claim that it's true for any larger group of people. The above are just my observations of people I know in RL and opinions I've read on the Internet, on several sci-fi forums, LJs etc. Of course there are exceptions (on this forum: numerous), plenty of 30+ people like and expect intelligent tv just as there are plenty of younger people who don't. Still, that's the general trend I noticed. What do you guys think?

[Brian]

That's interesting, because I've observed the exact opposite, especially in Stargate fandom. People in their 20s are more open minded, better versed in science fiction and better acquainted with its original spirit - all the stuff OP mentioned in the first post of this thread - than older folks. I've also noticed that many of those older (not "old" ) fans don't like to watch serious sci-fi that makes viewers think because they either equate sci-fi with mindless action set in space, aliens and heroes designed only to entertain or they believe that said serious sci-fi should be left for books only, since tv isn't sufficient/good enough media to convey complexities of literary science-fiction. In other words, tv shows are good only for escapism.

That's great to hear that you've experienced some smarter young people. I don't mean to say that all of them are idiots, not at all. But just personally for me, I've noticed a steady decline in most youth's ability to do anything these days that requires effort of paying attention or thinking. I'm only 20 so I guess I still consider myself to be in that category.

But hearing that there are different trends in other places is great and gives me hope that things could still turn around. Maybe I should move to your area HAHA!

[jmoz]

Hope you understand how some people find the things you say are "complex" and the opposite of "mindless" to be the opposites of those two things instead. Me personally, and I'm in my 20's, I don't find the characters complex or mindblowing, they're just behaving hormonally with lots of counterproductive angst.

[Petra]

Hope you understand how some people find the things you say are "complex" and the opposite of "mindless" to be the opposites of those two things instead. Me personally, and I'm in my 20's, I don't find the characters complex or mindblowing, they're just behaving hormonally with lots of counterproductive angst.

TBH, I don't know what you mean or even who your post was directed at. If you were replying to me, please take notice that I went to great pains to stress that I was talking only about my personal experiences, not people in general, and that there are plenty of exceptions. Of course some folks will disagree. Also, since this thread is about science-fiction in general, what characters were you referring to? I don't believe neither I nor Brian mentioned any specific show..

[jmoz]

TBH, I don't know what you mean or even who your post was directed at. If you were replying to me, please take notice that I went to great pains to stress that I was talking only about my personal experiences, not people in general, and that there are plenty of exceptions. Of course some folks will disagree. Also, since this thread is about science-fiction in general, what characters were you referring to? I don't believe neither I nor Brian mentioned any specific show..

I'm guessing you were saying the SGU characters and the show itself were complex and thought-provoking as opposed to mindless sci-fi. I was just saying some people would find SGU and the SGU characters to be neither complex nor thought provoking, more mind-numbing. Eh, doesn't matter anyways.

[hercthx]

That's interesting, because I've observed the exact opposite, especially in Stargate fandom. People in their 20s are more open minded, better versed in science fiction and better acquainted with its original spirit - all the stuff OP mentioned in the first post of this thread - than older folks. I've also noticed that many of those older (not "old" ) fans don't like to watch serious sci-fi that makes viewers think because they either equate sci-fi with mindless action set in space, aliens and heroes designed only to entertain or they believe that said serious sci-fi should be left for books only, since tv isn't sufficient/good enough media to convey complexities of literary science-fiction. In other words, tv shows are good only for escapism.

Personally I think it shows a generation gap, because younger people grew up watching tv shows which were becoming more and more complex and ambitious, aspiring to ask difficult questions which used to be reserved only for the movies and theatre. They expect tv to be difficult and to make them think. And folks 30/40+, raised on relatively mindless, schematic early tv, expect only escapism and easy entertainment.

Of course I have no intention of generalising, nor do I claim that it's true for any larger group of people. The above are just my observations of people I know in RL and opinions I've read on the Internet, on several sci-fi forums, LJs etc. Of course there are exceptions (on this forum: numerous), plenty of 30+ people like and expect intelligent tv just as there are plenty of younger people who don't. Still, that's the general trend I noticed. What do you guys think?

ok wher to begin with this ........ let me just say that for people in their 30 this is untrue. ok the resurgence with scifi hit us at just the right age i myself had my first scifi experience when i was taken to go see starwars at the age of 5 i still remember that day. during our childhood we had sw, st, shows like close encounters, et, infact the majority of the bases of our pop cultur IS sci-fi. we grew up with adventures of bsg, buck rogers, space 1999. as kids we ate breathed and dreamed scifi, we thought that was what the whole world was about! to this day we use quotes from knight rider, and airwolf, and the afor mentions shows plus a miriad of others in our everyday lexicon! we grew up reading Adams, Clarke, Farmer, Herbert and many more. we discovered the roots of these with old time radio, shows like x minus 1, mystery, the ray bradbury hour. poeple in their 30 wheather they admit it or not have sci fi rooted firmly in their sphycis. we tell each other to " punch it chewy", we anouce arrivals with "they're heeeerrrr". how many times have we expressed sympathy of a minor injury with that coacky voiced " oooowwwwwccchhhh". dont forget our ever warnings of "Danger!, Danger!". ask a 30 something about Tweeky, or Boxy, or V.I.NC.E.N.T., and note the far away look you get as though they are remembering a long lost distant friend. ahh my youg Padawan, we are fully enriched with sci-fi. now this is to certain degrees of course not everyone in my age group is as absorbed into scifi pop cultur but even the joks and headbangers in my schooldayz knew what you were saying when you were talking about the millenium falcon, you just might get called a dweeb and punched in the belly. ahhh the 80's! anyway i cant say that ther is any other age group as involved and accepting of sci-fi as the 30 something set, any younger then the genre interest shifts to douchy vampire kids (southpark sorry)and werwolf bayers. lets not forget our special wizrd friends lol. point is genre is well alive in our 30's and we are glad the tourch is being picked up by our younger generations following. i even have to say that the 40-50 set has to be included as it was they that were making this stuff up for us "kids" so if not for them we would never have known, and now we are making it for you, and when you get to our age....pass it on!

[Starfist]

What is Science Fiction?
It is a genre that has many faces and many different definations.
You cannot put Science Fiction into a pidgeon hole.
I've been interested in this genre for as long as I can remember. I cut my teeth on Dr. Who, Thunderbirds, Joe 90, Captain Scarlet, UFO, Space 1999, Star Trek (The Original series), Star Wars, the list is long. I started reading science fiction when I was 9. My first Sci-Fi book was Harry Harrisons 'Spaceship Medic'.

For me SF is an escape from reality. I use it to relax. I enjoy it. Most of my DVD's are Science Fiction.
I'm now in my 40's. I'm now wondering what the genre now holds.
Hopefully it will be something the younger generation will enjoy. Afterall my neices enjoy Dr. Who, I've yet to introduce them to Stargate.

Science fiction is out there to be enjoyed.

ttyl
Starfist

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I've noticed that it isn't so much a physical age thing as a rigidity of mind thing and I've met a saddening amount of people of all ages that fall into that rigid mindset.

[Coronach]

I've noticed that it isn't so much a physical age thing as a rigidity of mind thing and I've met a saddening amount of people of all ages that fall into that rigid mindset.

I can't green you, but this is so true and very well put.

[Republibot 3.0]

.people are stupid. Most of the people saying it are probably kids-20s ish that don't know any better. I have countless times had discussions and debates and arguments with young people (yes I'm one of them but like to consider myself smarter haha) and even people just a year or two younger than me are complete buffoons! It's just our society swirling lower and lower towards the drain hole.

To be fair, I haven't noticed an increase or a decrease in the number of idiots over the last 40 years. Society has always been pretty dumb as a whole. I *HAVE* noticed a SHARP increase in the numbers of boorish idiots, however.

[Republibot 3.0]

I've noticed that it isn't so much a physical age thing as a rigidity of mind thing and I've met a saddening amount of people of all ages that fall into that rigid mindset.

Yeah, amen to that, Brother. I've had a LOT of dealings with unbelievably rigid people (Check out my screen name if you want a clue as to why) who are just scared that if they give an inch, their entire world view and sense of self will fall apart. Rigidity and fear are closely related. One of the *major* things I always try to do is expose my fellow conservatives to new ideas in a non-threatening fashion. You know, start out with something other than "You're an idiot if you don't believe in evolution!" and maybe suggest ways that Evolution and a belief in God can co-exist, stuff like that. A lot of the rigidity is simply that they feel a position has already been co-opted by the other side.

Of course I've met just as many terrifyingly rigid folks on the left, too. I think it's an inherent aspect of human nature: don't question or the gods will kick your ass, that kind of thing.

So, of course it applies to SF, because SF is outside the normal range of life, and it's frequently *trying* to ask questions...

[Eternal Density]

There were, although nothing as amazing as his Nautilus. She ran on electricity powered by seawater (sodium extraction? something like that) - as fantastic as Destiny being powered by stars. Nautilus was a great feat of the imagination - and I think the honest great-great grandmother of Enterprise, Galactica, and all the others, all the way to Destiny.

Ooooooh, I like that thought

[Republibot 3.0]

That's interesting, because I've observed the exact opposite, especially in Stargate fandom. People in their 20s are more open minded, better versed in science fiction and better acquainted with its original spirit - all the stuff OP mentioned in the first post of this thread - than older folks. I've also noticed that many of those older (not "old" ) fans don't like to watch serious sci-fi that makes viewers think because they either equate sci-fi with mindless action set in space, aliens and heroes designed only to entertain or they believe that said serious sci-fi should be left for books only, since tv isn't sufficient/good enough media to convey complexities of literary science-fiction. In other words, tv shows are good only for escapism.

Well, books are gonna' be better than TV and Movies simply for the reason that books are better than everything, be it SF, or Westerns, or Nurse Romances, or whatever. Books are limited by imagination and talent only, whereas movies and TV are limited by ugly stupid reality like budget and technical feasibility and whatnot.

But I *have* noticed that there's an element of fogeydom where some fans only take whatever was the big thing when they were young, and they insist everything else is crap, regardless of any and all facts to the contrary. TOS fans are a good example, but not the only one. Likewise, there's a lot of present fans who's reaction is "How can I take that show seriously? The sets are made out of plywood!" and basically don't give it a shot.

[carmencatalina]

But I *have* noticed that there's an element of fogeydom where some fans only take whatever was the big thing when they were young, and they insist everything else is crap, regardless of any and all facts to the contrary.

I feel the need to point out that, despite my love of Jules Verne, I was NOT alive in 1870. I'm not quite that old. Almost, but not quite.