Canon or Non Canon, after seeing the episodes?

[aretood2]

Basic facts, construction, etc established by TPTB previously.

according to who? You?

Canon is a material that is considered to be "genuine", "something that actually happened", decided by the original creator.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canon

Main Entry: 1can·on
Pronunciation: \?ka-n?n\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin, from Latin, ruler, rule, model, standard, from Greek kan?n
Date: before 12th century
1 a : a regulation or dogma decreed by a church council b : a provision of canon law
2 [Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin, from Latin, model] : the most solemn and unvarying part of the Mass including the consecration of the bread and wine
3 [Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin, standard] a : an authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture b : the authentic works of a writer c : a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works <the canon of great literature>
4 a : an accepted principle or rule b : a criterion or standard of judgment c : a body of principles, rules, standards, or norms
5 [Late Greek kan?n, from Greek, model] : a contrapuntal musical composition in which each successively entering voice presents the initial theme usually transformed in a strictly consiste

No where in that definition can you find your invented definition.

[malfunction]

But in "the tao of Rodney" (stomach lurch) his sister was not only told of the program, but SENT to Atlantis!

There are people who have family members pass the security checks, and there are people, like Scott's stripper/baby momma, who do not get clearance.

It was 'McKay and Mrs Miller' when Jeanie came into Atlantis, but she is a genius just like McKay and was needed to help the survival of Atlantis. Scott's stripper/baby momma is not important to the Stargate programme at all and is probably not deemed a suitable person to know about the truth.

[natyanayaki]

I can go with that on writing and production mistakes. That does happen a lot between episodes(shouldn't, but it does).

But what if the change is INTENTIONALLY made by TPTB and not a mistake?

If it was intentional, then most times we'll probably be told that something was intentionally changed somehow. For instance, the writers may show that something that the characters thought they understood, was wrong. I think an example of CANON that contradicts each other, and confuses the audience is would be The Force and the later inclusion of the Mid-Chlorians (or however it's spelled). The way I see it, is that CANON is what has happened (either on screen, or in text) by the people working with the franchise (for instance the film and the series are different franchises, though the film influences the series), but it doesn't mean that there won't be contradictions. Especially with the number of episodes the writers have worked on. In fact, sometimes I think CANON is less contradictory, when there are different PTB for each generation of the franchise, as the new writers will try very hard to be accurate. When writing team doesn't change, it's possible that they think they know everything, and don't do all needed research, out of laziness, lack of time or any other reason.

[thekillman]

the ancients fell to TPTB's axe of inconsistency. their defeat and all makes no sense, unless the Wraith hold some cards we've never seen. the type of card that would mean instant defeat for Earth

[Rakhal]

Hmm, iirc the Ancients in the Pegasus Galaxy were there only 10,000 years ago (when they left), whereas apparently the Antarctic Stargate was 50,000,000 years old. That's a huge span of time. I suspect that the Ancients in Pegasus had fallen far indeed from the technological prowess of the much older MW ancients.
This decadent rump couldn't stand against the Wraith, but the Ancients in the prime of their time would have swatted the wraith aside as if they weren't there.

Just my hypothesis
--Rakhal

[Aer'ki]

WHICH MEANS WHAT? The Ancients left the Ori galaxy, they came here and built the seeders and Destiny. They replaced the original gates with orange MW gates, moved on to the second seeded galaxy (Pegasus) after the plague and replaced gates there with the blue ones, and then lost the Wraith War and returned to this galaxy, abandoning the Destiny project forever. There is no issue here.

By your logic, SG-1 is not canon because it doesn't exactly follow the dictates of the original movie. And SGA is not canon compared to either, because it doesn't rely on glowing aliens or snakes in the head. It's ridiculous, plain and simple. You aren't even beating a dead horse with this ludicrous argument, you're just making stuff up.

It has never been said that MW and Pegasus had the white gates and they were replaced with the red and blues...that's your own speculation. So there IS issue there.

As for canon...no, the movie doesn't match the series. But if we start CANON with RDA (as most people do, whether they know it or not) then SG-1 is CANON with some significant writing flaws.

[Aer'ki]

according to who? You?

Canon is a material that is considered to be "genuine", "something that actually happened", decided by the original creator.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canon

No where in that definition can you find your invented definition.

4 a : an accepted principle or rule b : a criterion or standard of judgment c : a body of principles, rules, standards, or norms

Right here. These are established early in a series by the writers themselves...you just don't expect the writers to contradict themselves.

[s09119]

It has never been said that MW and Pegasus had the white gates and they were replaced with the red and blues...that's your own speculation. So there IS issue there.

It was implied, seeing as Destiny (and by extension, the seeder ships) visited Pegasus shortly after launch.

[Calluna]

Yes, in terms of storytelling. If they place the story in a distant part of the universe where Goa'uld, Lucian Alliance, Ori, Wraith, and Genii don't factor into the equation at all, that frees them from having to rely on old stories. It's a "completely different canvas" which "frees them" from having to rely on old stories and storytelling.

Exactly. It's like Atlantis was a completely different galaxy and type of base from the Milky Way/SGC which allowed them to do different things (to a certain extent anyway) like bringing in new enemies who had nothing what so ever to do with the Goa'uld and completely different types of technology, rather than if a new show had just followed the newly formed SG-25 or whatever against the same villains. Those things became incorporated into an ever expanding canon. And whilst the Wraith/Ori etc were mostly completely separate storylines from each other, the fact that they were both in the same canon became highlighted during xovers when one area of canon played a part in another area e.g. The Pegasus Project, Critical Mass etc. This goes for double with SGU since it departs from the whole "team based" show and style of storytelling.

[thekillman]

the ancients are one of the most advanced races. a slightly different application of their technologies would've annihilated the wraith with ease.

even the tumor device would make them win. shoot that radiation at the wraith ships. we've seen what tumors do to hives.

drones, just fire them through the gate. galactic assault system.


a barely operational aurora beats the crap out of a hive. what would a superpowered, fully operational, brand new one do? beat the crap out of wraith fleets.

even a blitzkrieg would not work, the ancients merely need to raise shields and start shooting.


as i said, the wraith must have had some serious cards to beat the ancients. in one end, the ancients are great, fantastic megalomaniac beings who beat the crap out of anyway, for as long as they want to.

on the other end, they're incompetent morons, too stupid to think of simple 1+1 tactics.

drones+shields+ZPM's = huge victory.


it seems that the ancient technology used was a little too convenient. any race can use ancient tech better than the ancients themselves

[Deevil]

*headdesk*

Canon doesn't suddenly stop being canon because of continuity errors. If it did, it makes this entire thread more moot then it already is because nothing in Stargate could be considered canon!

I'm not sure any show, anywhere could have canon tbh with you under those circumstances.

[Eternal Density]

Well since SGU is not science fiction and isn't Stargate (as established in other threads), then it's obviously not canon either. Saying SGU is canon is like saying the 'teen SG-1' scene in 200 actually happened!

Spoiler:

Disclaimer: the above statements are not canon with respect to Eternal Destiny's actual opinion.

[Calluna]

'teen SG-1' scene in 200 actually happened!

You mean parts of 200 aren't real?! Sacrilege! "teen SG-1" actually saved the whole universe more times than adult!SG-1 ever did via iPhone and Twitter!!!.

Not to mention that SG-1 itself isn't canon beacuse Colonel O'|Neil's (one L) son is called Tyler, not Charlie, and it seemed like he would be able to work it out with the Mrs. at the end of that movie. Also Sha're is spelled differently.

[aretood2]

Right here. These are established early in a series by the writers themselves...you just don't expect the writers to contradict themselves.

That particular spot says nothing of on going or changing rules. I can bet you my life that the concept of the ancients TPTB had during the first 4 seasons of SG-1 is no the same as the concept they had in seasons 6-10. But does that change canon, no. It may be unequal lacking continuity but it is all canon.

[Flyboy]

That particular spot says nothing of on going or changing rules. I can bet you my life that the concept of the ancients TPTB had during the first 4 seasons of SG-1 is no the same as the concept they had in seasons 6-10. But does that change canon, no. It may be unequal lacking continuity but it is all canon.

I'm intrigued. Elaborate on your Ancient comment?