Avalon, Part 2 (902)

[keshou]

Daniel looked the old Daniel to me, his nose buried in a book, his hands where they shouldn't be . If anything, I think there has been a slight improvement from last season when he occasionally seemed rather bored or slightly annoyed. Here he actually seemed to care. I think MS gave an especially powerful performance in the scenes leading to Vala's burning at the "stake" and eventual revival.

I thought so too. I think ALL the characters have looked pretty bored (at times) over the last couple of seasons. I'm glad to see the stupor broken. I thought MS was excellent in the village scenes - and frankly I wasn't sure how well he was going to pull those off.

Vala continues to grow on me, thanks in no small part to CB's performance. This actress knows how to do over-the-top as well as subtlety, and her nuanced perforrmance near the end of the episode told us a great deal about her character: here is a woman of intelligence, good humor, as well as vulnerablity. To make her way in the world(s), she had to construct a tough exterior out of the the first two qualities to hide the third.

Excellent concise analysis of the character. I've always suspected her "Barbarella/JackSparrow" act hid some vulnerabilities and it's nice to see the layers of the onion being peeled back a little. CB did an excellent job in those final scenes. Shaken, yet still able to throw off the quip.

A minor complaint: it would have been a better idea to air the first three episodes in a single showing. I'd have wondered what Avalon had to do with Salem, if it weren't for the spoilers in these threads. However, "spoiling" should never be part of story-telling techinique.

I agree. It's like they planned on a two-hour premiere. But then it ran long and they decided to split it all up in three parts.

The first hour's story really didn't end until the discovery of the ancient stone communcation device. Then off on a whole different storyline for the last 45 minutes. But a minor nit - overall it worked pretty well.

[kazbaby]

Take a look at the Farscape ep with the sword fight, that was aweful, even embarrising (the fights no comment on the ep since BB wrote it).

To say something in defense of that, Crichton's character wasn't supposed to know how to sword fight. One of his line's is 'I saw this on tv once.' So it's supposed to be bad since the fight techique was like the off-shoot of distorted memories.

Plus, I think Browder actually trained for this particular fight. So it was bound to be a lot better in the choreography.

[Skydiver]

all in all, i found it slow.

still like landry, still like cam. thank goodness they're toning vala down....but a little of her still goes a long, long, long ways. (and i think i got enough last season)

the merlin/knight thing...silly. almost seemed like something that was done just so someone could brag about their sfx brilliance.

I think lam will fit in well, daniel must get paid by the word or something becauseifhetalksanyfasterwe'llneedtoslowmotheshowtounderstandhim.

the orii will be appropriately creepy but time will tell if this religious overtone will pay off or turn off. i live in a world that's threatened by religious extremists, can't say that i care for my entertainment to be dealing with it too.

i've even tried watching it like i'm watching a pilot of a new show...but there are just too many similarities to the show it used to be to totally divorce myself from the 'good old days'

maybe it is the lack of sam that's doing it for me. i see the potential for chemistry between these characters....if they're ever in the same scene together. Right now, i'm seeing disjointed bits and pieces and nothing that entices me to stick the tape in and rewatch it to see what i've missed.

[lily]

Well, I watched "Avalon - part 2" once so far and I absolutely LOVED IT. I hope I can watch it 2 or 3 more times this weekend, and hopefully some more during the week.

What an intense episode! Couln't believe it when I saw the dreadful "to be continued" on screen. I swear it seemed like only 15 minutes had passed. I was like "no waaaayyyyyyyy". Can't wait for Origin.

Some detailed comments, not necessarily in order of appearance, I'm just typing as I remember some stuff.

1. The conclusion of last week's cliffhanger. Our Daniel Jackson solve the riddles once again! Hey, that's what archaelogists do (Indiana Jones, anyone?). Loved it! And when Daniel and Vala are waiting outside, no hearing any more sounds from inside the cave where Mitchell and Teal'c are, and Vala says "I didn't hear any squeashing sounds." LOL. Typical of her.

2. Our good Dr. Lee's back. Yes! I like the character very much. I'm very glad TPTB are giving him more screen time. Hope he's back for more epis through out this season. Two scenes with him that pop up right now. The one where Daniel, Vala, Cameron and him are around that Ancient device, discussing what to do with the stones, and Lee says something like "we are sure...", then he looks at Daniel and adds something like "reasonably certain"... Can't remember the exact words, now, since I watched the epi only once, but it was a great scene. And nice linking to s8's "Citizen Joe" too. The other scene with Dr. Lee I especially loved was the one where he puts himself between the Ancient device and Mitchell, to stop him from shooting it. Hehe

3. Cameron's fighting with the sword. Loved it! I was pleasantly surprised, because I thought that scene was from part 1, and when we didn't see it last week, I thought it hadn't survived the editor's cut. I like the little flashback Cameron had about his stay in hospital while fighting. I hope they include some little more in future episodes. Hopefully we'll see some more flashbacks in Origin. Yes!

4. Vala literally swimming in the treasure. ROTFLMAO

5. Daniel discovering the real name of the Ancients.

6. Dr. Lam. I had never seen Lexa Doig acting before (the only sci fi series I watch are both SG-1 and SGA, so I never watched Andromeda, just a few scenes but she was not in. I don't like sci fi in general, not a fan of this genre at all), but I have to admit she's great in this role. I've read some people saying that she's too young for this character, for playing CMO. Well, just go and grab your SG-A s1 DVDs, and take a look at "The Broca Divide" for example. Teryl Rothery looked really young in that one, as young as Lexa Doig looks now, and Teryl's character, Janet, seemed to be CMO at that time too (at least we didn't see her reporting to other medical personnel back then, so I assume she was the CMO too). Liked the scene with Landry very much, it was well played by both. And I also liked her in the other scenes. I think TPTB made a real good choice in casting her.

7. Nice scene between Teal'c and Ra'knor. Teal'c gets to say more than just "indeed". Great scene, where Teal'c talks with passion about his believes.

8. Background music. I think I did't mention this for "Avalon - part 1", but I'll say it now. I liked the background music VERY much in both Avalon parts.

9. Daniel and Vala. Once again, I love the banter between those two. Daniel was great, as usual. And Vala was even better than in part 1 and PU. We see another facet of her. The burning scene was so intense. That one, together with the post burning scene, brought tears to my eyes.

10. The scene were Daniel, Vala, Cameron and Landry are walking through the SGC aisles, then in the elevator, then back to aisles, and then Landry walking into a room and closing the door. Daniel was great, just talking and trying to convice poor Landry. And then Landry closing the door, Mitchell telling Daniel "He has no idea what you just said", and Landry opening the door again and saying "yes, I am". LOL


Those were my top fav moments. Pretty much the whole episode. LOL. I'm sure I'll add more after watching it more times.

In short, as I said. LOVE it!

[MediaSavant]

I want to say somthing about the sword fight.

Some people may think the fight itself was cheesy, that Im not going to argue with because everyone has their opinion of what cheesy is. But the actual fight itself, the way it was choreographed was done much better then most sword fights you see on TV (outside of Highlander).

Thanks for bringing that up, because I absolutely agree with you. I've watched it a few times now--it's the only thing in the episode I've gone back to--and it *is* and extremely well-choreographed and executed fight scene.

As for the flashbacks that some people seem to like and others don't, I'm on the "like" side. I'm very intrigued by how Mitchell was able to from paralysis to being healthy like he is now. I wonder if they'll show us more. I wouldn't mind.

[Hatcheter]

This episode was good, but still felt rather exposition heavy to me. Which excites me; if they're laying this much groundwork now, there should be a great payoff coming out of it the rest of the season.

I like the fact that the Ori were as unaware of us as we were of them. I had seen some pre-season complaints about how a new enemy conviently springs up once the Goa'uld were defeated. But this way, the Ori could have appeared at any time, and it's just fortunate that they didn't show up while the Goa'uld were still in power.

Or perhaps it's not, the goa'uld might have done well to fight these other gods. A lot of Jaffa might welcome new, "truer" gods now that they've overthrown their old ones.

And of course, it's SG-1 who's going out and making things worse for the whole galaxy. Par for the course.

[Seshat]

Overall I liked this episode, but it felt rather disjointed - as if I watched two separate episodes. The first half was all Mitchell and the "great cave adventure" but the second half was all Daniel/Vala at the Renaissance Fair. Both parts were good, but felt odd to me.

I'm liking Landry more and more. He fits now, and the wee crossover with SGA with a nice touch. Lexa didn't do much, but I liked her and think she will do a good job. As for Mitchell, I'm already thinking of him as part of the team. Browder was a good choice. All we need is Carter.

Vala - I said last week that TPTB would tone her down. Last week was her big splash, and it had to be good. I like Vala and hope she comes back beyond her 5-6 episodes - not as a reg, but pop in now and then. Claudia is a hoot!

Can I say I'm tired of the Jaffa?

I heartily agree with FP in all of the above, except that the Jaffa storyline doesn't bore me so far this season as much as it has done in the past. I think I would enjoy watching the former warriors and their struggle to evolve into a more peaceful society. But I doubt a smooth transition is planned by the writers.

I watched Lexa's first appearance closely, and was delighted at how well she fit into the show, both in her professional demeanor and her thoughtful delivery. Still liking Ben's performance, esp. now that he's calmed down a bit. He doesn't have to try quite so hard to win me over. And Beau is always a treat! Claudia was quite endearing this go 'round, I really felt pity for her in the fire scene even though I was spoiled for it. (Am I the only one who thought there would have been MORE screaming in that situation? And wouldn't she have been a bit too...ahem...WARM to touch so soon??)

I look forward to Sam's return. I kept wondering what her comments would have been throughout the ep. She would have had a few choice words in the cave, to be sure, and been right there with Dr. Lee trying to figure out the device. I miss Amanda. I bet they did, too.

Oh, and PLEASE somebody tell Michael to sloooow down. It spoils the show to have to always watch it with the captioning on just to try figure out what the heck Daniel is saying.

[TheCorpulent1]

All right, a lot of people seem to have problems with the Merlin as an Ancient thing. What, if I may ask, is so bad about it? No one batted an eyelash when the ancient Egyptian, Japanese, and Classical gods were revealed to be parasitic snakes who live in people's heads. How is Merlin's being a highly evolved human who tricked medieval England into believing he's a wizard with his limited ascended powers any goofier than that?

As for Landry, I still like him a lot. The Patton dialogue with Mitchell was nice, and it was a good way to draw a line in the sand between the military and civilian members of the not-quite-SG-1. Daniel's bursting at the seams at the mere possibility of learning more about the Ancients; the military dudes need hard evidence and a means of accessing that knowledge to care. But back to Landry: like Lida said, he's new and he's feeling his way through the day-to-day management of the SGC still. He hasn't formed emotional attachments to anyone (except Lam, naturally), so he's gruff with everyone to keep from being perceived as soft. Hell, he doesn't even have an SG-1 to get acquainted with at the moment. He reminds me a lot of Hammond in "Children of the Gods," but a bit more exaggerated. Hammond seemed to hate Daniel at first, as I recall, and he was more than displeased that Jack disobeyed orders with the Stargate, which ended up putting Earth in danger.

[golfbooy]

Well, here's my take on Avalon 2 (way too long of a post to follow):

In order to appease that inner voice that just keeps jumping up and shouting at me over and over again, let me start off by saying, as I did last week, how absolutely terrible the new opening credits sequence is. I mean, my God Skiffy, what the hell were you thinking? The shortened theme comes across as an even more egregious error this week in light of Joel Goldsmith's inspired score for Avalon 2. As others here have mentioned already, the score, and especially the use of vocals, greatly contributed to the dramatic presentation of the episode. Here, the music definitly added an extra layer to what was happening onscreen. Without shooting for hyperbole, this is post production at its finest.

Now, with that out of my system, on to the story itself. I liked it. In spite of the King Arthur nonsense, which on second viewing I didn't find nearly as objectionable as the first, I really liked the episode. If there's anything to really complain about, it's the cut between Avalon 1 and Avalon 2. Mitchell's battle with the knight was a scene that I've been dreading since I first heard about it. I just didn't see any way that they could make such an overused, cliched concept work. Nonetheless, I watched. And, for the most part, was rewarded with a scene that fit with the tenor of Stargate. There was enough humor in the presentation to avoid making me cringe, and now that I sit here thinking about it, that is something.

And, in spite of my distaste for such stories, I didn't really mind the inclusion of Mitchell's flashback in the scene. I think it did work for the character; we've certainly seen the same out of Teal'c on a number of occasions. Hey, face it, that's how fight scenes are filmed in television. My one complaint with the scene is the special effects. I could have done without the flashing, energy emmitting sword and the slow motion action. But, as I said, you have to expect some of that from television. Those complaints are really nitpicking, though. But, while I'm spliting hairs, what's with the massive piles of gold and trinkets? That did seem out of place to me. If what we're looking for here is a link to the Ancients, then why does the promised treasure actually include treasure? The only answer I can come up with is that the producers fell in love with the visual of Vala swimming in it. I would have thought that the book Daniel was reading and the communication device would have sufficed. Anyway, like I said, those are relatively minor complaints.

Continuing on, I really liked the scenes at the SGC. Alot of people have commented on the fact that they don't feel like a team, and that they all seem rather on edge around each other. And I agree. It's just that I think that that is what the story calls for. Whether or not this is a turn off for you is a personal decision, reluctant as some people are to admit it. This is not our team. It's not the SG-1 of seasons past, and it's not the SG-1 of the future. This team, or non-team if that makes sense, is only grouped together by circumstance. I don't expect them to be as "tight" as SG-1 the military unit. Vala wants to make her fortune, Daniel wants all things Ancient, Teal'c is stressed out and frustrated with the Jaffa, and Mitchell is just trying to keep them all on the same page. And, for me, that's the way it should be. Jack's and Sam's absences are attributable to factors beyond the control of the producers. So, perhaps it would be instructive to look at these first five episodes as not quite the show that the producers are intending to make. And it's not that I'm saying it's bad. I think the shake up is really good for the overall story.

In the hopes of cutting my rambling down a bit, let's move on to the other major story point, the Ori. For me, this is the part of Stargate that I fell in love with. SG-1, from the beginning, always took shots at the mind-numbing, life limiting aspects of religion. That's what the Goa'uld story started out as, that's what the Ori story is starting out as. I'm aware that this is a turn off for a whole bunch of people. That's fine. Turn off. But this, for me, is hearkening back to some earlier tones from the series. It's not classic SG-1, nor do I ever want it to be. But it is a classic theme, and it's one that I appreciate. The presentation of the Ori's worshipers also worked for me, from the devout to the doubters, none of it seemed too over the top, none of it seemed to be intended with a light tone. And it worked fantastically. The burning scene was, for me, like tv crack. I'm hooked, and I want another fix. I want more with the priors, more with info about the Ori, and, yes, even more Daniel Jackson and Vala.

And, while the praise is flowing, let me just say how excited I am about the impending Jaffa nation stuff. The scene between Teal'c and Raknor was outstanding. I'm eagerly awaiting Lou Gossett's entrance to the story, and I'm definitly digging the conflicted Teal'c. Even though many others descry the Jaffa as boring, I can't even begin to agree. To be honest, the Jaffa haven't been this interesting in quite awhile. I want more.

I'm going to end this diatribe by complimenting the producers, Brad Wright and Rob Cooper in particular, for following through on their preseason promises. From the earliest interviews regarding season nine, both producers have promised to keep the character of Jack O'niell alive in the SG-1 universe. Clearly an attempt was made of that here. I loved the tie in to Citizen Joe and Jack's possession of the Ancient gene. And, I loved that Jack is pushing for a renewed relationship between Landry and Lam, no matter how surreptitious he has to be about it. That's the Jack O'neill that cares for SG-1. And, while he's gone in presence, at least he's not gone altogether.

I think that I'll make another post regarding the individual characters, seeing as how this post, rather predictably, continues to grow in size, despite my best efforts.

[ToasterOnFire]

More stuff from me:


-Vala! Less annoying?! Downright likeable??!! Thank you PTB for toning down on her childish behaviors!!

-Daniel acting more like Daniel?? Even better.

-Cam, Landry, Lam, and the Jaffa vote were all "meh" for me.

-The swordfight was total cheese and the flashback was out of place. Awkward to watch.

-And I completely agree with everyone who said this ep felt like two halves. Cramming all of the Merlin bit along with introducing Cam would have been way too much for a first ep though. It probably should have been:
-first ep: let's get to know Cam, AKA "The Mitch-fomercial"
-second ep: Merlin, tomb, etc
-third ep: body displacement, Orii, etc.


All in all, this ep was vastly superior to the premiere. Toning down Vala and changing storylines away from the Arthur arc helped immensely.

[Jace021903]

Vala continues to grow on me, thanks in no small part to CB's performance. This actress knows how to do over-the-top as well as subtlety, and her nuanced perforrmance near the end of the episode told us a great deal about her character: here is a woman of intelligence, good humor, as well as vulnerablity. To make her way in the world(s), she had to construct a tough exterior out of the the first two qualities to hide the third.

I don't know how Vala would go over if there was a less capable actress playing her. On paper, she sounds like a character that I personally would really dislike, but CB somehow pulls it off.

Vala definately has some layers we haven't seen yet. As a former host, she has to have some very disturbing memories that she keeps buried under that in-your-face exterior. Being burned alive is going to rank right up there, I would think.

Jace

[Kalinda]

Well, I feel a bit cheated, I figured we'd learn some more about the Orii in this episode then we did. But I guess the writers have a lot of explaining to do. And of course they leave us with another cliffhanger. It'd be neat if on the DVDs all three episodes are edited together, but that's not likely because the third has a different name.

The sword fight was pretty awesome and I loved the music, as well as Mitchell's determination. I wonder if the sword will get any use later in the season, or it has anything else about it. Probly not, though.

Actually, the music for the whole episode was quite good, espeically the medieval-like stuff near the end.

General Landry is starting to grow on me more and more. I found the scene where he talks to Carolyn to be interesting and Immediately knew there was something between them. I haven't read spoilers so I don't know, but I figure she's probly the daughter he mentioned as it seems unlikely they had a past romantic relationship. The appearant age difference gives more to the first option. So, interesting lil subplot there.

I'm glad this episode wasn't as humour-filled as the last one, except a little bit, but no more then is usual for Stargate. Plus Vala cut back on all her sexual stuff, which was also nice. It was funny in Part 1, but it would've gotten really old really fast had they kept it up.

I got a real sense of peril when Vala was set on fire and then "died" I think I would've been more axcited by it had I not known she couldn't die because she was appearing in more episodes. The acting was great during that scene and, though I figured the staff of the mysterious dude would heal Vala when he appeared, he was still pretty cool. Liked his entrance and the music that came with it. And this cliffhanger is a bit more interesting then the last. Still, I felt kinda cheated.

Otherwise, I quite enjoyed the episode ^_^

So.. 8.5/10.

Can't wait till next week!

[puddlejumper747]

I felt like we didn't really accomplish a whole lot in Avalon Part I....but this week was much better.
Alterans. Holographic sword fight. Hidden treasure. Intergalactic communication device. The Orii are looking pretty cool....and pretty creepy. The opening "credits" clip still sucks, but what can I do about that now?

Last week I was rather annoyed that every other sentence coming out of Vala's mouth had to be some sexually-oriented comment....this week I liked her attitude a whole lot better, and basically ended up forgiving her for last week after she got burned alive. Although I must admit the whole Orii altar design itself was kind of cool.

I had absolutely no idea that it would be a three-part episode arc. That caught me completely off-guard! And the worst part of all: I'm going to be away for the next 2 weeks, so I won't be able to watch any of the next two episodes (of SG1, SGA, or BSG) until I get back. Ah, well....such are the evils of summer vacation.

[golfbooy]

OK, as I promised (or threatened, depending upon your view) above, here are some more of my rambling thoughts about Avalon 2:

Let's start with Mitchell. Honestly, there's really not too much to say about him in this episode. We learn a bit about him, but nothing that seems to stand out to me. He's determined and strong-willed, which is just so damn surprising. More substantially, technobabble and, apparently memos and files, are not anathema to him. So, that's good. And, for all those critics, not very Jack-like. As for Ben Browder, I still think he's doing a fine job. He's very competant, if perhaps still trying to find his feet with the character. I'm sure there's more to come.

Vala. She absolutely worked great in the second half Avalon 2. The burning scene was richly conceived and terrifically executed. Kudos to Andy Mikita for a fine bit of direction, and kudos to Claudia Black for a fine bit of acting. Both give the scene a sense of tragedy and despair. Very nice.

It's great to see Daniel Jackson with something new and meaty to get excited about. I, unlike many of you apparently, rather enjoy his rapid speech. The fact that Daniel's tongue is constantly outpaced by his brain fits the character to a tee. If all it does is force the audience to pay closer attention to what he's saying, then all the better. Exploring a strange culture and religion is exactly what Daniel Jackson signed up for when he joined the SGC in the first place. And he seems quite at home still doing it today. Lastly, it is Michael Shanks portrayal of Daniel's quiet grief over Vala's immolation that gives the final scenes so much gravitas and tragic majesty. With just that one scene, the Ori are given more depth and potential than the Wraith have been given in a whole season's worth of work on Atlantis.

And can I just say how refreshing it is to finally have the gaping void left by Dr. Frasier's death competently filled? Lexa Doig delivered a fine, nuanced performance, bringing the comfort of what appears to be a civilian doctor to a rather rigid, marshal setting. There have been many complaints that she is too brusque, too detached and assertive in her bedside demeanor. But, let's face it, if she was caring and overly empathetic then everybody would be complaining that they simply recast Frasier. Dr. Lam's Landry issues work, for now, and offer the audience an insight into the character outside of "consumate professional". No matter what, it'll be good to be back in the infirmary.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I still have serious misgivings about Beau Bridges as General Landry. So far, he just doesn't work for me. That's ok, neither did Hammond really, but for being such a highly touted, big-time star, he comes across as rather out of sync with the rest of the cast. His best scene was with Dr. Lam, and hopefully he'll grow to be a lot more comfortable. But, for now, when Hank Landry goes into "command mode", I just chuckle. It's like he's trying to be the alpha male and failing miserably, like that kid at school who just never caught on to just how ridiculous he was behaving. Oh well, there certainly could have been bigger disappointments than Landry in these first episodes. Perhaps I should be thankful that he's the only one for me.

I feel the need to add a word about Carter. The show misses her, and rightly so. Dr. Lee, while being a fine subsitute is only that, a substitute. SG-1 is going to continue to lack cohesion as a unit until she returns. And, while that's not inherently a bad thing, it will be good to have both Sam Carter and Amanda Tapping back on board.

Lastly, there's Teal'c. Like Mitchell, he wasn't in Avalon 2 a whole lot, but when he was, he was absolutely the star. The Jaffa storyline is brimming over with potential, as is the potential character development of Teal'c. He's conflicted, and for the first time looking much more comfortable and at home among the Tauri than he is with the Jaffa. This can only lead to good places. Chris Judge is delivering a masterful performance so far. The scene where he and Raknor argue plays great, for both characters. And while Teal'c is being rather economical with his words, they are all well chosen and full of significance.

All in all, Avalon is an even, measured introduction into the new story and new characters. While a one-night, three-part showing for these opeining episodes would have been ideal, there's no point complaining about it now. And there's little point in faulting a good story for the time constraints of television. How long until Origin?

[jyh]

I *like* Daniel's beard. I think they have him wearing it temporarily to initially distinguish him from Ben Browder (re that whole "limited gene pool" thing), so I think he'll shave it off eventually.

Even though I found this episode pretty hard to follow-- very disjointed-- too many different elements-- I did think the burning scene at the end was very good. Surprising too, as I'm sure everybody thought that something was going to happen at the last minute to keep Vala from actually burning. But since most everyone on this board knows that CB has a contract for a certain amount of episodes, that couldn't be the end of her. However, while the burning thing was cool, and the hot molten liquid making its way to her was very clever and cool to watch (so to speak), think about it... would a renaissance-era village have a peasant-burning apparatus in the middle of the town square? Just goes to show that you really can't think too much about what you see on a TV show... while it looks good, it doesn't always make a whole lot of sense.

And I thought that Landry should have added a comment when he said of Vala, "What's she doing in my facility?" He should have added, "If she's going to be here a while, find her something decent to wear." Thankfully, her character is less grating on my nerves in Part 2, and I think someone else said it well that every comment out of her mouth doesn't have to be sexual innuendo. If she's going to be on future episodes, I hope the writers continue to develop her into a more realistic character rather than a cartoonish one.

Oh, and I really HATE (and I mean HATE) that the opening score has been cut from both SG-1 and SGA. Especially Atlantis... I love that music!! (And sure, now that the theme has been nominated for an Emmy, what does Sci-Fi do but cut it down to 6 seconds. Get a clue, Sci-Fi!)