Moebius, Part 2 (820)

[Easter Lily]

I have some sympathy for what you say, Thek but I doubt that there has been anything ordinary about SG1 right from the beginning... a linguist who has a working knowledge of 20 something dead and living languages as well as being a walking history book, a female airforce pilot with several science degrees and the knack of coming up with solutions at the eleventh hour(called a genius in a couple of episodes); a deadpan alien of military reknown turns into freedom fighter...
Jack... could be considered ordinary I suppose in the way a cat has nine lives...

[cybersyd]

No. Because you see, OUR sg1 never went back in time.

Ah, but if 'our' SG-1 had never gone back in time, there would be no ZPM in the present.

Unless of course, we were watching a parallel universe at the beginning of the episode and Universe C is actually 'our' SG-1. Although that doesn't work either because Universe B only exists because of the actions of SG-1 in Universe A.

Although it's all meaningless because the original SG-1 died in 2010 and we've been watching an alternative universe ever since that ep...

(1969 doesn't count because they only did actions they were pre-determined to do. Like that episode of Futurama where Fry becomes his own grandfather).

This is why I love science fiction! Because you can argue for months about the science behind it. Or, um, metaphysics behind it. I'm a sucker for all that. Just don't get me started on the fourth dimension...

[Major Tyler]

Sam said it herself..."There goes causality."

The Rebellion originally happened because of SG-1, the same way Hammond knew to give Sam the dates in "1969."

The team is the same...a fish in the pond makes no difference. It's a fish, for crying out loud!

[Jonzey]

Ah, but if 'our' SG-1 had never gone back in time, there would be no ZPM in the present.

Unless of course, we were watching a parallel universe at the beginning of the episode and Universe C is actually 'our' SG-1. Although that doesn't work either because Universe B only exists because of the actions of SG-1 in Universe A.

Although it's all meaningless because the original SG-1 died in 2010 and we've been watching an alternative universe ever since that ep...

(1969 doesn't count because they only did actions they were pre-determined to do. Like that episode of Futurama where Fry becomes his own grandfather).

This is why I love science fiction! Because you can argue for months about the science behind it. Or, um, metaphysics behind it. I'm a sucker for all that. Just don't get me started on the fourth dimension...

Oh. My. God.

Ignore Moebius, and replace the last scene from threads with the two last scenes from Moebius part 2. Ignore the fish.

ITS THE SAME DAMN TEAM.

[majorsal]

i want to ask: how would alt sam, jack, and teal'c have been executed by a goauld in ancient times?


sally

[dark]

To those who said this episode feels rushed: I totally agree. However, keep in mind the past two seasons were made with the knowledge that there might not be a next season... so they wrote all of the season finales as if they were series finales as well. In previous seasons (1-5, maybe 6?) all of the finales were cliffhangers to be resolved in the next season.

I agree with the person who said they should have made this a three parter. The first two parts being at the end of season 8, and the final part at the beginning of season 9.

[kashi]

From what I understand, episodes of SG-1 and Atlantis are ment to be viewed one after the other so you would watch Episode 15 of SG-1 and the Episode 15 of Atlantis so at the end of Episode 20 of SG-1 with the timeline restored they now have a ZPM and straight after that in Episode 20 of Atlantis 'a team arrives from the SGC saying they have a ZPM which was found in Egypt'

For some reason in the UK Atlantis is a few episodes behind SG-1 so they no longer sync up, the message sent from Atlantis to SGC in Episode 17 should have been recieved between episodes 17 and 18 of SG-1 but because of the way Sky are showing SG-1 it looks like it was recieved between episode 19 and 20 but infact it wasent.

ATLANTIS 1x19/20 SPOILERS BELOW:

They didn't really sync up anyway, as the ZPM was received in Atlantis 1x19, which is before the timeline was fixed in SG-1.

[Jonzey]

ATLANTIS 1x19/20 SPOILERS BELOW:

They didn't really sync up anyway, as the ZPM was received in Atlantis 1x19, which is before the timeline was fixed in SG-1.

Not so. Becuase technically they had the ZPM at the end of Threads. Then 2 weeks later they were testing the Daedelus's hyperdrive.

Spoiler:

So the ship was ready to leave at about halfway through Seige part 1.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Oh. My. God.

Ignore Moebius, and replace the last scene from threads with the two last scenes from Moebius part 2. Ignore the fish.

ITS THE SAME DAMN TEAM.

<cough>.... I can see you feel very strongly about this.

The following is a general observation about Stargate time travel/alt universes, and not one aimed at Jonzey in particular:

What do (general) you make of that scene near the end where SG-1 is looking at the tape. Jack finishes with his, "no fish in my pond" comment, and Sam asks him, "Is that correct?"

Note that Jack did not say, "Yes."

So, from this I observe that, 1) Sam doesn't know about the lack of fish in Jack's pond, even though she's heard of Jack's philosophy about fishing. Surely Teal'c has told her that there are no fish in Jack's pond, and, anyways, wouldn't that Sam have been there in the past with Jack to hear him say that?

2) Jack didn't answer whether or not the "no fish" statement was correct because he knew that it wasn't and hoped to not have to futz with the timeline because it seemed too complicated for him, or he was in too much of a hurry to get Sam to his lodge... yeah, in this case, probably the latter.

[richardf]

After all the hype surrounding Moebius, in the end i found it a little disapointing and unsatisfactory, posing far more questions than it answered.

it would 've been ok as a mid season story, but as a season finale it does not match up to previous finale stories. Reckoning or even Threads would have made a better end to season 8. Moebus could have been used as an opener for season 9 instead.

As a story 'Moebius' had far more potential than the 2 episodes it covered. There could even have been potential for a longer 'story arc' covering several episodes. Then we could have seen more of say, ancient egypt under Ra/goa'uld on earth in general, or developed the 'alternate timeline' arc more (including more of 'alternate' Apophis an a goaulded daniel). Finaly and most importantly (for me at least) more on the rebellion against Ra and how they stopped him taking the 'gate away. Oh yeah and i suppose the fate of the 'team' in ancient egypt, and the Jack/Sam thing.

As it is there are so many questions about the episode as it was done, particularly the last 15 minutes of Moebius 2. In the end it all seemed too easy to change the timelime back.

Questions:
How large an army did Ra have in egypt? Surely not just the squad That attacked the PJ, yet defeating this patrol seemed to win the rebellion.

How did they get the gate from under Ra's nose and then hide it?

Why didnt the jaffa patrol shoot Tealc on sight?. Surely they would see him as an enemy ie first prime of Apophis (assuming Ra and Apophis were at war at this time).

it seems that the egyptian rebellion needed SG1 to suceed AND keep ra from taking the stargate (otherwise how could the timeline have been so easily changed by the first ('our') SG1?). If thats the case it can be argued that the events of 'Moebius always happened, and in efect the SGC/SG1 caused the events that led to thier own creation!! This created a paradox does it not? (Whoah now i have a headache!) In other words what hapened in the original (unaltered) timeline?

What does happen to the 'team' back in A egypt after the rebellion? Do they stay or try ot go home/ And what about the timeship(s?) are they destroyed or left buried for our time to find?

What about the goauld weapon the egyptian rebels seem to have? What do they do with them? Why arent they later found be archeologists in our time?

There are more but that will do for now.

[Fox McCloud]

Perhaps the geeky sam/daniel verse is the unaltered verse ?

[Serebii]

In a few eps of SG1 Jack Mentioned that the pond had bass that were

|_____________________|

That big...he tried to get Carter and Thor fishing by sayin so. If there were no fish there then he wouldnt have said that

So since theres a fish in the end we are back with Our SG1 but the Scene at the end of threads was with Alternate SG1

It was never actually mentioned elsewhere in SG1 that there were no fish...just that O'Neill rarely catches them

[Wass]

After watching Moebius again I sort of got the basic idea and how the managed to fix the time line although I will still say it was great disappointment for season final I expected a lot more then I got from this episode. As many people have mentioned on this thread I think Reckoning or Thread would have made a better season final and Moebius should have been before episode 16/17. I still don’t understand how this will lead to season 9 and also am I correct in assuming the we now have 2 PJ’s now or did one get destroyed.

[Serebii]

I think they could have 3. I'll just call them Jumpers 1, 2 & 3

One from Maybournes Planet in Timeline C - Jumper 1
The One Timeline A Travelled Back in Time With - Jumper 2
The One Timeline B Travelled Back in Time with - Jumper 3

Now I know they're all one and the same but the Jumper 2 there for Timeline B to find then Jumper 3 travelled back in time so Jumper 2 was still buried then and presumably Jumper 3 is going to be left there too

However when the timeline is restored...they still have Jumper 1. Its just a matter of finding Jumpers 2 & 3

Man thats almost as confusing as the episode itself

*goes to stop his head from exploding*

[hermajesty]

Maybe there were fish in Jack's pond all along, he's just dreadful at fishing and pretends there aren't any so as not to lose face. And in the final scene, he knows he was probably lying on the tape, but doesn't want to admit that to Sam, so he just says "close enough".