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Reckoning, Part 1 (816)

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    Originally posted by Ace
    Maybe somebody can explain this to I'm a little lost! The Ancient superweapon can destroy all life in the galaxy, who knows what it's true purpose is, but it can destroy all life in the galaxy nonetheless. So how can it destroy the Replicators? They are machines, and the human ones are nano-machines?
    The Ancient super weapon might be able to isolate specific things in the galaxy and change it according to its programming. I don't know just wait till next week.
    "Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
    of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
    Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
    because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
    of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
    another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

    -excerpted from Haroun and the Sea of Stories,


      Originally posted by Buzz Lightyear
      How would it benefit Jack for him to get all mad and emotional when confronting Baal? Who was it that said, "revenge is a dish best served cold"?

      Uh, that was my point. I think that Jack is taking the "belittling" approach to Ba'al, in part, because he doesn't want to let his anger out.

      "He's an amazing man. After everything he's done, he's still modest. Quite self-effacing actually. He even likes people to think he's not as smart as he is. Bottom line, he's an incredibly strong leader who's given more to this program than any man has given to anything I can imagine."


        Originally posted by DetriusXii
        Although it's interesting how the Gould assigned the replicator name to their enemy so quickly.
        Keep in mind Anubis probed Thor's mind in season 5, he probably took the "replicator" name from there.
        Vae Victus - Livy


          Originally posted by donnie_darko
          The Ancient super weapon might be able to isolate specific things in the galaxy and change it according to its programming. I don't know just wait till next week.
          I guess that's all we can do...I sure do hope that they explain it in Part 2. Otherwise I will be very confused

          "Good Morning Dr. Silberman. How's the knee?" - Sarah Connor 1994


            Originally posted by DarkQuee1
            Uh, that was my point. I think that Jack is taking the "belittling" approach to Ba'al, in part, because he doesn't want to let his anger out.
            Well, the way your post is worded suggests you think Jack is struggling to keep his anger in check. I don't think he's really so angry at Baal anymore but rather satisfied at Baal's ultimate humiliation at having to beg the humans for help. After all, once you've been involved in destroying Anubis' fleet, why does he need to be angry? And with the Replicators decimating Baal's forces, there's even less need for anger. Rather, Jack would appear to be feeling quite happy, that is until Baal spoiled his cheery mood by mentioning Anubis.
            To Infinity And Beyond!

            O'Neill: "Do we know this... shrub?"


              Originally posted by DarkQuee1
              I think that Jack is taking the "belittling" approach to Ba'al, in part, because he doesn't want to let his anger out.
              I do hope that one day Jack *does* let it out. It would add a bit of texture to what we're currently getting on the Jack/baal front.



                Elliot, wrong thread.


                  Just rewatching the clip where Baal advises Anubis to pull back the ships instead of engaging the replicators. Since I don't recall Jabob advising Baal on this, I believe that this is proof that Baal is smarter than most system lords.


                    Originally posted by AlphaBlu
                    I agree with the notion that Jack laughs at Ba'al because it's his only defence against him. Jack suffered quite a lot at Ba'al's hands, and there's no way that he's just "gotten over that".

                    I agree. Jack was completely helpless in Baal's hands. Jack wants Baal to feel the same, now.

                    And, <shrugs> it's Jack as we've always known him.

                    A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
                    "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
                    One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
                    resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
                    confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
                    A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
                    The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."


                      So I watched “Reckoning, Part 1” today. I kinda wish it was all one episode though. So here I go!

                      Thing I Liked:
                      1. The whole concept that the Replicators are moving in, the Goa’uld are losing power (though we’ve fought for 7 ½ years and it isn’t our doing!), and the galaxy is in chaos.
                      2. Carter and Thor – like old times! Back to Small Victories, Season 4!!
                      3. JACOB/SELMAK! And Mel Harris! Yeah for returning characters! Thor and Ba’al and Replicartor!!
                      4. Ba’al’s faces when “Anubis” jumped bodies.
                      5. Thor’s ship in action!! Was that the Daniel Jackson I saw?
                      6. No more Yu! He’s plagued us for so long, now he’s gone. He got what was coming to him!
                      7. WALTER!
                      8. Tok’ra internet!

                      Thing’s I Didn’t Like:
                      1. Ba’al working for Anubis. That doesn’t happen! I mean, not Ba’al!
                      2. The whole concept behind Takarra. So predictable!
                      3. Replicartor’s sword-arm. Lame!
                      4. They took Daniel! I want him back right now!

                      Good Moments/Quotes:
                      1. “And don’t be afraid to remind him (Thor) that we’ve saved his cute, little, gray bum several times!”
                      2. When Thor beamed Carter into Jack’s office and she’s like “Damnit!” And he’s like, “Hey Carter!”
                      3. Jacob/Jack banter. “Hi? Hello? How are you? What’s up? What’s doing? Hey buddy!” and then “You said we had a problem. Not a big GLACTIC EMERGENCY!”
                      4. “That’s not good!” When seeing all the Replicators.
                      5. “It’s not going to be getting any better if you keep stealing stuff.” Dirty look! “Hey, no complaints! I’ll take what I can get. Weapons, receivers, silverware!”
                      6. Jack/Ba’al banter too. “We were just talking about you. All good!” “There’s been a little chit…and chat around the water cooler!!” “Yeah, pesky little buggers!” “I don’t like to toot my own horn…” “Wait, I’m sorry! We must have had a bad connection or something. It almost sounded like you wanted help?” “My, this is an occasion! You know that bitter taste in your throat, kinda wrapped around your uvula. That’s what’s left of your pride!” “I’ve got a better idea. Instead of helping you, why don’t we sit back and watch you get your ass kicked! That way you’ll be dead and we’ll be glad!”

                      I give “Reckoning, Part 1” a 9/10. I really like how it focused on a lot of different ideas and people, not just one like most of the episodes in Season 8 have. It really gave an introduction/reference to future episodes. The weapon was an introduction to “Threads” and the whole “we could travel back in time…” was to “Moebious (sp.) 1 and 2.” I like how that was done. I could see “Threads” as sort of a “Reckoning: Part 3 and 4” since it’s the 90 minute version we get to see! Too bad the season is over in 4 weeks!

                      **Sorry about the switch-around mods! I posted them in the wrong order by accidnet.


                        This episode was so good it could have been part of the season finale. Lots of action and everyone was in on something too.


                          quick question, danial worked out what the "if you know that the candel light is fire, then the meal was cooked along time ago" means, what does it mean? its about your perspective on the world around u or something right?


                            Originally posted by Dana_Jeanne
                            I'm sorry, but if RDA hadn't said So Many Times that it was his idea to "dumb Jack down" and if the writers and his fellow actors hadn't said So Many Times, that RDA both adlibs his lines and does what he wants because He Is The Boss, then I would gladly throw all the inane comments that come out of Jack's mouth directly into the writers' laps.

                            I too, think RDA and Jack are gorgeous--all men should be so hot in their 50's. I used to love the Jack and Daniel Friendship Duo-- back when Jack acted like he CARED for his team members and actually had a serious bone in his body.

                            It's one thing to act the way he does as a Col; but in my opinion, Jack makes a lousy general, and I'd go AWOL before I followed him into battle now.

                            I do apologise to the Jack fans who were not happy with my comment about locking the door behind him-- that was insensitive of me, and I know better than that. I'll go back and edit that portion.

                            Dana Jeanne

                            I think I have to regretfully agree with all of the above. 'General' O'Neill is just irritating. Flip, snarky comments are not appropriate at his level and gushing over them does not help. He does not have to act like Hammond but he should be shown to engage his brain (which he undoubtedly has).

                            Much as I like RDA, I think he needs better writing or to curb his inanity. It gets tiresome. I was driving to work this morning and thought that no military leader in their right mind would treat an enemy counterpart so glibly (as he did with Ba'al). There is history between them but that is no excuse.


                              ElanaM: I think too that Jack was the worst part in this fantastic episode.
                              "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

                              "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

                              "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


                                Well, it's been a few more days now and a couple more viewings to let it all settle in. And I do want to comment further on one aspect of this episode. I still enjoy it greatly and think it was a great episode. But there is one aspect to it that bothers me and which I think could have made it an even more terrific episode if it had been 'fixed'.

                                That is, the growing trend this season to laugh off the peril. I've noticed it in a few episodes now and to my mind it's a big mistake by the writers. How can the viewers be on the edge of their seat, or feel the tension of all that drama and action and our heroes in danger - if the writers aren't taking that danger seriously? If the characters don't seem to appreciate they're in trouble, how can we? If they adopt a blase attitude to being captured by the enemy, why wouldn't we do the same and stop caring too? And that diminishes both characters and episode just a little for me.

                                Part of this lack is epitomised for me by the reactions to Daniel's abduction. I agree that the almost complete lack of concern for his fate was a bad error by the writer. There should at least have been some acknowledgement of it in the briefing room scene. I noticed this lack in New Order when it came to Carter's abduction - but there it could be slightly excused by them being too busy and in the thick of the action to have time to register it. Kind of. Slightly. That wasn't the case here. The pace was much slower. So what is it about being abducted by replicators that has everyone so relaxed? They're supposed to be the worst threat in the galaxy. But apparently they're no danger when they beam you up to their ship for a Daniel (and Carter) might as well have been on vacation, visiting old friends.

                                Realistically, I realise that it must be difficult to continue to portray this type of concern over eight seasons. Just how many times can you show Carter sitting despondantly in the locker room? Or Jack staring wistfully at the name on a locker door? But as these are the kind of scenes that I really enjoy - team members showing concern over the fate of one of their own - I'm really missing this element this season.

                                Damian Kindler seems to be very good at comic dialogue and team relationship. And we're on the same page there. I enjoy his scripts for that reason. But he doesn't seem to have a grasp of how to inject tension or serious drama into an episode and that's something I really hope he and other writers rectify in season 9.

                                After all, you can't truly appreciate the fun and the humour without the counterbalance of concern and tension. One feeds off the other and without that balance both are diminished. Let's keep the fun. But let's not lose the poignant moments and the serious dealing of ethical issues and having our heroes face real danger either, please.

                                Although I wouldn't go as far as other posters in their new disgust for Jack - I'm still enjoying his input enormously - I would like to see a return to including the other aspects of his character, rather than just this interminable focus on his blase, irreverent side. I want to see the Jack who is street smart and military savvy. Who cares about his team. Who can be relied on when your back is to the wall to come up with the off the wall solution that works. Again, it's all about balance. And the way it's been lacking with Jack too this season.

                                I don't agree with the poster who offered the opinion that no General would so easily dismiss an enemy like Ba'al. Jack wasn't dealing with Ba'al. He was dealing with a hologram that was completely incapable of offering any threat to him, anyone else or the SGC. That must affect his decisions on how he responds to him. And it's hard to be worried about an enemy that's being whacked over the head by someone else and is about to go down in flames, I suspect. Seriously - at this stage in the game - what threat does Ba'al really pose? Not much.

                                Like I said, I haven't gone off this episode at all - I've enjoyed watching it every time, it's packed with moments that I really love. I just have the feeling that I'm watching a really good episode. And that it could have been an even better one if this element hadn't been ignored.

                                Ah well...perhaps part two will rack up the tension. Or the rest of the arc till the finale. Here's hoping. Certainly, there are some interesting photos for this one in the episode guide. If there was tension and all the great stuff from part one, part two and the rest of the arc will be stunning!

                                Last edited by Albion; January 27, 2005, 04:43 AM.
                                Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

                                Richard Dean Anderson