Shades of Grey (318)

[Starscape91]

It was kind of stupid that everyone thought O'Neill went rogue, but it was still a good episode.

[jelgate]

It was kind of stupid that everyone thought O'Neill went rogue, but it was still a good episode.

Thats a pain of being a fan. We know how the inroads work. And that him having a change in status would have been known months in advance.


I like this episode not for Jack faking to go rogue but just because I have always been interested in the rogue NID agency and how they function. We got a some more insight in their political structure like we now know for certain Maybourne is their leader. Before we just had a guess. Also we learned more the reasoning behind the rogue NID. I do not agree with it but I understand with their actions. It was just overall a good way to see them opperate and how far they had gone down. Best of all was seeing Makepiece as the traitor. I remember the first time I saw that I was shocked he was the mole in the SGC. Although since thier was incriminating evidence I have to wonder why Maybourne wasn't arrested either.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

Although since thier was incriminating evidence I have to wonder why Maybourne wasn't arrested either.

It is implied in Water Gate that he was but escaped, which is why he's working for the Russians. However, nothing about Maybourne in this period is ever clarified. We know that he must have been arrested at some point, or he wouldn't have been in prison, on death row for treason (which, btw, is highly unrealistic).

Seaboe

[jelgate]

It is implied in Water Gate that he was but escaped, which is why he's working for the Russians. However, nothing about Maybourne in this period is ever clarified. We know that he must have been arrested at some point, or he wouldn't have been in prison, on death row for treason (which, btw, is highly unrealistic).

Seaboe

It never said that in Watergate. I always thought he was on death row for revealing the Stargate program to the Russians

[Brother Freyr]

we now know for certain Maybourne is [NID's] leader. Before we just had a guess.

Maybourne led the off-world operation, but I never perceived him as leader of the entire rogue NID.

I always thought he was on death row for revealing the Stargate program to the Russians

yes

jelgate, how in the world did you make nearly 30,000 posts?!

[jelgate]

Maybourne led the off-world operation, but I never perceived him as leader of the entire rogue NID.

I guess a more accurate definition would be rogue NID stationed off world.

yes

jelgate, how in the world did you make nearly 30,000 posts?!

GW was a different place back in 2007. A very active opinionated place with so many discussions and debates.

Also it helps to have no personal life.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

It never said that in Watergate.

And I never claimed that it said that. I said it was implied, which I still believe it is.

I always thought he was on death row for revealing the Stargate program to the Russians

My problem with the believability of the treason conviction is that in real life, in the U.S., it is practically impossible to be convicted of treason, especially without an accusation that you were advocating the violent overthrow of the government--something I can't see Maybourne ever advocating.

Seaboe

[jelgate]

And I never claimed that it said that. I said it was implied, which I still believe it is.

Implying is a long way from making something true

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

Implying is a long way from making something true

So? We never get to see what happened to Maybourne between Shades of Gray and whatever the title of that other episode is. All he ever says is that he is on death row for treason. My interpretation of what is said and done in the intervening episodes is no less valid than yours.

I believe the implication is that after Shades of Gray he had to get out of the country fast; he went to the Russians so he could continuing working with the Stargate. At some point after Watergate (possibly as a direct result, possibly not), he was captured and put on trial.

Seaboe

[jelgate]

So? We never get to see what happened to Maybourne between Shades of Gray and whatever the title of that other episode is. All he ever says is that he is on death row for treason. My interpretation of what is said and done in the intervening episodes is no less valid than yours.

I believe the implication is that after Shades of Gray he had to get out of the country fast; he went to the Russians so he could continuing working with the Stargate. At some point after Watergate (possibly as a direct result, possibly not), he was captured and put on trial.

Seaboe

Thats true and exactly my original point in the Shade of Gray review. I wasn't talking about speculation. Fans do that that all the time for information. I was wondering in a canon source which was never established

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

I was wondering in a canon source which was never established

Sometimes written communication sucks for figuring out these subtleties, doesn't it?

Sorry for my part in the confusion.

Seaboe

[dtheories]

"So, just to clarify..."

The Tollan offer to send a ship for Jack when stranded on Edora, but a scenario in which Jack steals their technology is supposed to make sense to his team?
Makepeace, the Marine who saved SG-1's butts several times and is apparently unaware of Jack's involvent in the shadow program based on his expression when Jack requests a return trip to Edora, is strong enough to helm SG-1 but apparently no longer useful to the show?
And Maybourne goes from drop-in-anytime-Harry to rogue NID leader overnight?
No matter.
The episode is important to me for one thing; the Jack and Daniel relationship.
After being so harsh with Daniel due to the house bugs, even Jack couldn't maintain eye contact as he watched the emotions race across Daniel's face as he's learning that he's lost his only true friend. The small payback at the end about drawing straws lightens the mood, but these two show how delicate friendships really are and how easily we can wound another, even if we begin with only the best intentions.
Fair Day!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

I just saw the episode and loved it.

As for the debate on whether we should be more aggressive in acquiring technology, I think what the SGC did in this episode was correct. The Asgard, Tollan and Nox are all powerful allies and provided we had a strong enough alliance with them they would be willing to help us defend ourselves if we were attacked. I would rather have this situation as opposed to some of their technology and these races distrusting and ignoring us. Even if we got the technology we might not even be able to use and understand it because it could be far too advanced. I say we steal all the Goauld technology but keep allies friendly because their help in certain situations is better than access to their technology.

I also think the Tollan are right about what we would do with any technology we acquired. Who is to say that if the US were threatened by China for example they wouldn't use alien technology. If the threat was big enough they would. The SGC may have good intentions but I don't trust a Government that would do anything to stay in power.

I think over time, as relations between these races grow stronger we will eventually gain their technology as we learn how it is to be used. E.g. not against each other but only as a last resort to protect ourselves from hostile invaders. However, humans seem destined to destroy each other and this doesn't look like changing anytime soon.

[Brother Freyr]

Well said, Lt.Colonel John Sheppard!

[garhkal]

"So, just to clarify..."

The Tollan offer to send a ship for Jack when stranded on Edora, but a scenario in which Jack steals their technology is supposed to make sense to his team?

There is a difference using your tech to help out, and giving your tech up..