Learning Curve (305)

[pritnep]

Interesting moral and ethical type episode but not one of my favourites.

I have to disagree with you captain jake I think it is completely within character for Jack. If it's one thing that really gets to him it's the mistreatment of children he obviously has the view that kids should just be allowed to be kids. He was just acting out on what he preaches.

Certainly does raise the question of SGC having a prime directive again.

Oooh yay they have a naquada generator prototype now that cools, I forgot what the original looked like rather then earth built ones.

Daniel was certainly in his element uncovering the history behind the people.

[L E E]

Interesting moral dilemma type episode.

My opinion, I would respect the Orban's way of life as long as they don't try and convert me to it. And as long as they respect my way of life as well. The Orbans are quite nice actually. Very civilised and non-judgemental. And they still are nice to the SGC even after being SGC criticised their way of life.

This is one of the few episodes where I did not like Jack's attitude. I understand it but I don't agree with it. I am glad that this time, he did not get his way.

[plague]

The same argument could be made for their interfering with cultures where the Goa'uld (and later the Ori) are worshipped. These people believe them to be gods but that doesn't stop SG-1 interfering with their lifestyle.

With the Uroan children on Orban, they are selected at birth (or before, I can't remember) and at that time, a bumper dose of nanites is inserted into their brains to enable them to learn more, faster. They are not given a choice in the matter but are raised to believe that their position is an honourable one and that they are doing a great service for their people by doing the learning for them. As adolescents, they are effectively stripped of virtually everything they are, so that their knowledge will be shared among the others. They themselves do not benefit from the knowledge they gained during their 11-12 years of learning.

A comparable situation would be a culture where infants are selected at birth and marked as future hosts for Goa'uld. They are raised in a temple or something and taught to believe that being chosen was a great honour and that they will be doing an invaluable service to their people by offering themselves up as Goa'uld hosts, as it will mean that the Goa'uld are appeased and leave the rest of the population in peace. When they are taken as hosts, their consciousness is suppressed by the Goa'uld but it remains intact. Their people benefit because they're free from Goa'uld attacks and can pretty much live their lives in peace. The selected hosts obviously don't benefit from the arrangement.

Would SG-1 be justified in interfering with that culture by trying to rescue children marked as future hosts?

Ofcourse I agree with what you say. Both of the situations are similar. However, instead of dictating the Orbanians on not to use their children as the knowledge learners, they could have taught them on how to teach the children who have given their nanites. That is how it ended in the end. So I do not disagree with how it ended. However, I question the rights SG-1 had in questioning them. For example, even in Earth we have a lot of animals/people who are being used in experiments in the name of medical science and if the patient is unable to respond consiously, the guardian gives the permission instead. I'm not saying it's the same. Orbanians are primitive in that kind of behavior. Yet if Earth had the technology which they had whereby you can ensure everyone can be a brilliant scientists who can produce more and improve the world in a few years but the cost of it have to be the way Orbanians did, do you think the government will be questioning it? I'm not saying what's done is right but what I'm saying is that when you look at the chances, we will be doing the same thing as they did if given the chance.

[ReganX]

ok. I agree with what was the message of the episode. However, considering the whole concept of SG-1, it seems the decisions were opinion based.

To explain, I understand why the SG-1 reacted towards how the Orbanians treated their kids. However, they had no idea why they did it the way they did. And also, their judgement is based on the lifestyle they have in Earth. So how can they make any judgements?

This is one of my major issues with the show. How they justify what is right and wrong based on what they believe to be right. And if they oppose, then SG-1 fights against it. Now if the other world people comes through stargate and tells Earth members on how they should live or behave because they (otherworld members) feel it is the right style of living, would the earth members do it? I don't think so.

The same argument could be made for their interfering with cultures where the Goa'uld (and later the Ori) are worshipped. These people believe them to be gods but that doesn't stop SG-1 interfering with their lifestyle.

With the Uroan children on Orban, they are selected at birth (or before, I can't remember) and at that time, a bumper dose of nanites is inserted into their brains to enable them to learn more, faster. They are not given a choice in the matter but are raised to believe that their position is an honourable one and that they are doing a great service for their people by doing the learning for them. As adolescents, they are effectively stripped of virtually everything they are, so that their knowledge will be shared among the others. They themselves do not benefit from the knowledge they gained during their 11-12 years of learning.

A comparable situation would be a culture where infants are selected at birth and marked as future hosts for Goa'uld. They are raised in a temple or something and taught to believe that being chosen was a great honour and that they will be doing an invaluable service to their people by offering themselves up as Goa'uld hosts, as it will mean that the Goa'uld are appeased and leave the rest of the population in peace. When they are taken as hosts, their consciousness is suppressed by the Goa'uld but it remains intact. Their people benefit because they're free from Goa'uld attacks and can pretty much live their lives in peace. The selected hosts obviously don't benefit from the arrangement.

Would SG-1 be justified in interfering with that culture by trying to rescue children marked as future hosts?

[plague]

ok. I agree with what was the message of the episode. However, considering the whole concept of SG-1, it seems the decisions were opinion based.

To explain, I understand why the SG-1 reacted towards how the Orbanians treated their kids. However, they had no idea why they did it the way they did. And also, their judgement is based on the lifestyle they have in Earth. So how can they make any judgements?

This is one of my major issues with the show. How they justify what is right and wrong based on what they believe to be right. And if they oppose, then SG-1 fights against it. Now if the other world people comes through stargate and tells Earth members on how they should live or behave because they (otherworld members) feel it is the right style of living, would the earth members do it? I don't think so. Even within earth we don't agree on how one person should live. Western Culture behaves differently compared to Eastern culture. Western ideas differ from Eastern ideas. For example in Western culture, when people become teenagers, they may work part time/full time and start earning their ways while in my culture (eastern), parents believe they should take care of the children until they finish their studies and find a proper job regardless of whether the parents have money. So we disagree within ourselves. How can we put rules towards other world people?

Just ranting. Share your thoughts.

[captain jake]

The pyramid scene is really cool, however I do have a question about the Orbanians being Mayan. It is possible that their gene pool has been affected by a light skinned society. However even if that was the case you would still see slightly brown skin with dark hair and brown eyes. I hope I'm not being racist, but I'm pretty sure that all Southern American Indian tribes were dark skinned. Does anybody have any theories on how they all turned into Icelandic Europeans?

I thought this ep was fine. But it isn't one I ever really think about or pull out on my own. I watch it when it is on Sci-Fi, say "Yeah, that was good", then forget about it again.

Really? I actually think about this episode every time we use a Naquada generator. I agree I haven't watched it anymore than other episodes, but I did watch it just now for my third time and this is my third time going through the series. This isn't an episode I think about all the time, but I do think about it every once and awhile.

I didnt really like this one
Found it a bit boring
But i also missed the ending so i might have to rewatch it

Well I guess it would depend upon how much of the ending you missed. The part where they figure out exactly how the Nanites work is the best part.

[HelloVelo]

There was a lot of cute in this episode.

Rating: 7/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2...ing-curve.html

[Teddybrown]

I didnt really like this one
Found it a bit boring
But i also missed the ending so i might have to rewatch it

[Crichiel]

I thought this ep was fine. But it isn't one I ever really think about or pull out on my own. I watch it when it is on Sci-Fi, say "Yeah, that was good", then forget about it again.

[Harlan's Speechwriter]

True, but i am surprised he did not get more of a 'repremand' for what he did..

True. But Hammond knows Jack well and knows what a good officer he really is. I guess that Hammond thought a stern word from him would be enough to stop Jack acting so impulsively again, whereas a court martial could have led to the SG programme loosing one of its finest men. After all, what Jack did was out of order and possibly stupid, but he's also made a great number of very wise judgements and is, essentially, excellent at his job.

[garhkal]

True, but i am surprised he did not get more of a 'repremand' for what he did..

[Harlan's Speechwriter]

I've read through this thread with interest. This wasn't one of my favourite episodes, but it does raise some questions.

I would have liked to have known more about Daniel's work on the planet; it did seem to concentrate a bit too much on personal relationships/stories.

The issue of the SG team interfering in another culture is a deep one. I think the real consideration here is that they were dealing with children, who had no control over what happened to them and knew only what they were brought up to believe (plus advanced science, obviously). This can be said, I think, of children to an extent in all cultures, but its consequences can be drastically different, depending upon the culture and its beliefs.

Jack showed Merrin a different way, but she made her decision. I think that the ending showed a good compromise; the essence of the culture was still there, but there was more for the children after they had given their knowledge.

[ReganX]

As much as Jack may not like it, the Orlans have their own ways, and if everyone everywhere were to act exactly the same and share the same attitudes and values, then there would be no uniqueness and cultures would lose the identity they have strived to maintain for centuries.

I would consider what the Orbanians were doing to the Uroan children to be child abuse. They were, as Jack so aptly put it, sucking their brains out.

SG-1 have interfered with other cultures before - the Jaffa, for example.

Jack saw an eleven year old child, who had spent almost all of her short life learning and who had been taught from infancy to believe that the process that would rob her of her knowledge and return her to an infant-like state was a great honour. He tried to help her and protect her as best he could.

[LHB]

There was one thing I found annoying about the episode: one small detail cause I'm a stickler for that sorta stuff:

--When they're in the school, and the kids are supposed to paint something that they "love," some kid is painting Jack. I mean I'm sure the kid liked Jack and thought he was fun, but love? A bit over the top; yeah, the kids like him, we get it, no need for that silly painting, in my opinion.

But...I still <3 the show so no big deal .

[Svengoolie]

Am I the only one who couldn't understand a word that that Tommen kid said?