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The Tok'ra, Part 1 (211)

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    #31
    I suppose Selmak just has to get used to being a 'he' after years of being a 'she'. Mind you, after years of being a 'she' it probably came as a bit of shock to be blended with a bloke!

    I suppose what helps is the fact that, as the symbiote is using the host's body to speak through, their voice will naturally take on the timbre of that host - albeit with the symbiote 'flange' effect. They also take on a lot of the emotional/psychological elements of their host as part of the blending process, so that probably helps them adjust from being male to being female (and vice versa).

    To that end, Selmak now has male characteristics owing to being resident in Jacob's body - therefore it can be assumed that Selmak is 'male' to whatever degree a symbiote can be 'sexed' (as it were).

    With that in mind, I guess Selmak should now be referred to as a 'he'. That was always the assumption made with Goa'ulds - and I suppose that's why Sam assumed Jolinar was 'male' as she had jumped from a male body.

    That's just my opinion though. I'm not a fic writer, so I don't know whether there are any conventions over sexing symbiotes.
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      #32
      Originally posted by Chaka's_Mum
      I suppose Selmak just has to get used to being a 'he' after years of being a 'she'. Mind you, after years of being a 'she' it probably came as a bit of shock to be blended with a bloke!

      I suppose what helps is the fact that, as the symbiote is using the host's body to speak through, their voice will naturally take on the timbre of that host - albeit with the symbiote 'flange' effect. They also take on a lot of the emotional/psychological elements of their host as part of the blending process, so that probably helps them adjust from being male to being female (and vice versa).

      To that end, Selmak now has male characteristics owing to being resident in Jacob's body - therefore it can be assumed that Selmak is 'male' to whatever degree a symbiote can be 'sexed' (as it were).

      With that in mind, I guess Selmak should now be referred to as a 'he'. That was always the assumption made with Goa'ulds - and I suppose that's why Sam assumed Jolinar was 'male' as she had jumped from a male body.

      That's just my opinion though. I'm not a fic writer, so I don't know whether there are any conventions over sexing symbiotes.
      See, that's the thing--there aren't any conventions. Some people use "he" and some use "she." If anyone can point to an episode where Selmak specifically is referred to using a pronoun besides The Tok'ra, please tell!
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        #33
        Originally posted by Beatrice
        Which brings up an interesting question: Selmak has always had female hosts before. But Jacob is male. Should Selmak be referred to as female or as male? Which set of pronouns should one use? (As a fic writer, this is not a small question.)
        SPOILERS 'THREADS' AND 'JOLINAR'S MEMORIES'

        Is a spoiler warning necessary there? Hmm.

        Anyway, on both 'Threads' and 'Jolinar's Memories', Jacob referred to Selmak as 'he'. Of course, in both instances, Jacob was practically on death's door, etc, so any references to symbiote gender could be interpreted as the delirious mumblings of a dying man...

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          #34
          this is aturalu one of my favorite eps i like it alot

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            #35
            I really like the ambush scene at the start of the ep. Even though I would've thought the Tok'ra would've shot first and ask questions later.
            Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini => three of the world's worst dictators.

            Also failed artist, failed priest, and failed grade-school teacher.

            What we should learn: Don't trust artists, be wary of priests, and fear your teachers!

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              #36
              Originally posted by Daniel's_twin
              Nah. No tomatoes. I agree with you. They've probably just been operating in secret for so long that they've just grown accustomed to it.
              Thank you, Daniel's_twin. I appreciate that.

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                #37
                Originally posted by PugGate
                I really like the ambush scene at the start of the ep. Even though I would've thought the Tok'ra would've shot first and ask questions later.

                what? naaa, not the Tok'Ra

                Heru'ur is a God, he will rise and take revenge

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Heru'urs_first_prime
                  what? naaa, not the Tok'Ra
                  Hmm - I dunno. Given what (and who) they're up against, and the fact that they seem to largely operate with zats rather than anything more instantly devastating, it seems quite remarkable that they would merely allow a bunch of heavily armed strangers to come along and not at least flatten them with a few zat blasts.

                  Mind you, given that the Goa'uld are not known for being subtle when they invade, it seems highly unlikely that they would spearhead an assault on the base by sending in a small party of people in green combat gear. The trouble is, how can you be sure?

                  I suppose the only reason that the Tok'ra would hold back from an all out firefight is the risk of collateral damage (the 'What if they shoot back?' scenario). Being an underground resistance movement, they're not exactly overwhelmed with resources, so you could claim that not shooting first was (sort of) an economy measure.
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                    #39
                    given the chance i don't think the Tok'Ra would have fired anyway because forstly:
                    1stly - theyre a good folk
                    2ndly - They wouldn't want to let strangers (possible goa'Ld) know that people live their, they wouldn't want to give up their posision just because straners are walking by

                    Heru'ur is a God, he will rise and take revenge

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Heru'urs_first_prime
                      given the chance i don't think the Tok'Ra would have fired anyway because forstly:
                      1stly - theyre a good folk
                      2ndly - They wouldn't want to let strangers (possible goa'Ld) know that people live their, they wouldn't want to give up their posision just because straners are walking by
                      If that was the case, why challenge the strangers at all? If the Tok'ra are determined that no-one at all should be aware that they're present, why not remain completely hidden and let the visitors leave unmolested?

                      Probably because it would make this episode very short, and not a little dull.

                      I think I'd be a bit careful in assuming that the Tok'ra would refrain from shooting first because 'they're the good guys', though. Regardless of the purity (or whatever) of their motives, their first concern will always be their own security, not the welfare of whoever it is that comes calling. I suppose in challenging the strangers, they're taking a calculated risk that this bunch of people are genuinely honest visitors who've come through the gate of their own volition and not some clever Goa'uld trap.

                      That's why it seems so odd to me - why not zat them (I assume the Tok'ra don't have any stun grenades to hand at the moment), and then transport them to the Tok'ra tunnels while they're unconscious? That way, they won't know where they are and won't be able to alert anyone if they are spies.
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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Chaka's_Mum
                        If that was the case, why challenge the strangers at all? If the Tok'ra are determined that no-one at all should be aware that they're present, why not remain completely hidden and let the visitors leave unmolested?
                        mybey they scenced the naquadra in Caters blood, they must have thought
                        "oh look stragners, ah lets hide on not give our secret location away...wait.......i sence..........naquadra! quick lets suprise them"
                        Last edited by Heru'urs_first_prime; 05 August 2005, 04:46 AM. Reason: html error

                        Heru'ur is a God, he will rise and take revenge

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                          #42
                          There is another factor which I forgot (probably unlike everyone else, of course): Teal'c.

                          Given that this bunch of strangers have a Jaffa with them, perhaps the Tok'ra consider it wise to intercept the party of visitors and find out what they're doing there. After all, a Jaffa and three humans (who could be slaves, of course) is a rather odd combination for reconnaisance; but you never know for sure. Better to find out why they're there and take remedial action if necessary.

                          But, it still seems a bit strange that they didn't stun them first - either with Zats, or perhaps with a stun grenade (assuming they have any of those, of course).

                          I don't think they would have been able to pick up on Sam's spiked blood, though; particularly as, with Teal'c being there - had they sensed anything that indicated a symbiote, they would have assumed it was coming from Junior.
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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Chaka's_Mum
                            grenade (assuming they have any of those, of course).

                            I don't think they would have been able to pick up on Sam's spiked blood, though; particularly as, with Teal'c being there - had they sensed anything that indicated a symbiote, they would have assumed it was coming from Junior.

                            probebly

                            Heru'ur is a God, he will rise and take revenge

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                              #44
                              hang on..... ive just thought, they can't have zaped them because:
                              the needed a host!!!!!!! sg1 didn't look like Jaffa (appart from one) or goa'uld, and they believe that the host should choose to be a host, so, zapping them on first contact isn't a very good start in getting the strangers to trust you!

                              Heru'ur is a God, he will rise and take revenge

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                                #45
                                And that's their big dilemma. They need the hosts - quite badly by the look of things - but they also need to keep themselves extremely well hidden.

                                I'd be quite surprised if the Tok'ra viewed the four strangers (one of whom is a Jaffa) with anything other than at least mild forboding. They have come through completely unexpectedly, and the presence of that Jaffa is going to lead to the assumption (perfectly reasonable until you get to know Teal'c) that the Goa'uld have rumbled them and this is some sort of trap. Particularly as they are completely unaware that they've already been rumbled anyway.

                                I can't really see the Tok'ra thinking 'Hey! Potential hosts!' in that situation. Besides, once the dust has settled, a bit of embarrassed apologising and a few explanations as to why they have to take such precautions would probably smooth things over at least a bit (it's even possible that Jack would have done the same if their positions were reversed). Mind you, given how the Tok'ra reacted when all of SG1 refused to become hosts - effectively imprisoning them in the base - there's no guarantee that things would have worked out differently even if they had got happy with the zats.
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