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    #76
    Originally posted by fems View Post
    I just skimmed through the episode and Drey'auc only noticed the teeth were no longer missing when he smiled. In the later scenes, after they have been removed and Teal'c is questioning Rya'c about why Apophis wanted him to sacrifice himself you can see they made his right lower tooth (left for us) black which I assume is to make it look like it's gone. The other tooth would have been above it, but we don't get a good angle to check.

    Knocking out the teeth could have easily been done by a fist or staff weapon to the right side of his face (cheek for example).
    Ditto the last line. It happens to children all the time when playing rough sports type games. Probably in this case a staff weapon, since I can't actually see Bra'tac doing training with his fist.

    Moving on a bit. I've always felt very badly for Drey'auc in this episode, especially with the way Teal'c behaved. I understand he was hurt that she'd moved on, but I wish there had been more about the subject. Did he really expect her to sit around and wait for him? Did he really expect that nothing would happen to her because of his actions? She was, after all, left to raise their son, alone. She was only trying to make the best of a bad situation and try to give Ry'ac a decent home. She didn't actually love Fro'tac, but apparently people on Chulak don't find that to be necessary to marry (IMO).

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by fems View Post
      1. Simple; if they were lethal on their own, Rya'c would be dead long before having the chance to fulfill Apophis' plan.
      2. Indeed.
      3. He didn't; Drey'auc said they were gone and Janet told the others the two teeth were hollow. There was no mention of which teeth they were, so apparently they were in the back and we couldn't see them or the empty space left behind after removal.
      4. No.
      Actually they were the two front teeth mentioned in the episode, which is why I was asking about it.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by Dave2 View Post
        Actually they were the two front teeth mentioned in the episode, which is why I was asking about it.
        No, they weren't.

        Spoiler:

        DREY'AUC
        Before our son was taken, he was training with Master Bra'tac. He lost two teeth that day. They are no longer missing.

        [...]

        RYA'C
        You cannot stop me!
        [Chomps his teeth together…twice. Then he feels his teeth, stunned.]
        DREY'AUC
        They're gone, son.

        [...]

        FRAISER
        The teeth were fake, hollow. Inside each tooth we found a different biological organism, sort of like a virus. They both appear to be dormant, harmless, until you combine them. Then they become deadliest thing I've ever seen.

        CARTER
        If he bit down hard enough to break the teeth the two organisms would begin to combine and multiply exponentially, releasing themselves into the atmosphere.


        And like I said in my post after that one, Drey'auc didn't notice it until Rya'c smiled widely. I think it would be very obvious to anyone if his two front teeth were still there despite being knocked out earlier. Not to mention that it wouldn't make sense for Rya'c to chomp his teeth together if they weren't his back teeth and since they were supposed to break for the two agents to mix, it would indicate one is above the other.

        You might want to check the episode again and watch the moment Drey'auc is startled and tells Teal'c, plus the later scene when she's in the brig with Rya'c.
        Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
        Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
        On FFnet or AO3


        My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by fems View Post
          No, they weren't.

          Spoiler:

          DREY'AUC
          Before our son was taken, he was training with Master Bra'tac. He lost two teeth that day. They are no longer missing.

          [...]

          RYA'C
          You cannot stop me!
          [Chomps his teeth together…twice. Then he feels his teeth, stunned.]
          DREY'AUC
          They're gone, son.

          [...]

          FRAISER
          The teeth were fake, hollow. Inside each tooth we found a different biological organism, sort of like a virus. They both appear to be dormant, harmless, until you combine them. Then they become deadliest thing I've ever seen.

          CARTER
          If he bit down hard enough to break the teeth the two organisms would begin to combine and multiply exponentially, releasing themselves into the atmosphere.


          And like I said in my post after that one, Drey'auc didn't notice it until Rya'c smiled widely. I think it would be very obvious to anyone if his two front teeth were still there despite being knocked out earlier. Not to mention that it wouldn't make sense for Rya'c to chomp his teeth together if they weren't his back teeth and since they were supposed to break for the two agents to mix, it would indicate one is above the other.

          You might want to check the episode again and watch the moment Drey'auc is startled and tells Teal'c, plus the later scene when she's in the brig with Rya'c.
          OK, will do.

          Comment


            #80
            I really dislike this episode, and it's an unfair hate because much of what is here is pretty good. Christopher Judge gives a great performance, Jack is really on form. But it's overshadowed by the last 15 minutes or so, which are some of the worst scenes Stargate ever made. I mentioned in 'Bloodlines' that I don't like the kid playing Rya'c, and he is a thousand times worse here.

            It's not entirely his fault, he's given some terrible dialogue to work with, and as an actor he improves drastically once he's older, but here he is damn near unwatchable and it ruins an otherwise interesting episode. The scenes at Fro'tac's house are very enjoyable and there is fun team interaction, not to mention another appearance for the wonderful Bra'tac. But God help me, I never want to have to sit through this one again.

            - It hadn't occurred to me that the SGC assumed Apophis and Klorel were killed when the ships blew up. I always kind of had the impression they escaped, and just assumed everyone else knew! It makes sense that they didn't.

            - The zat shot seemed a very simple solution, making for an unbelievable and unsatisfying conclusion (although I enjoy seeing that little **** Rya'c get shot)

            - How is Jack so knowledgable on electroshock therapy and how similar it is to a zat blast? What's he been up to in his past?

            - The hidden wall in Fro'tac's house blended in fairly seamlessly until the scene where Jack returns in the guard's uniform, where even the most idiotic Jaffa soldier would have figured out where they are hiding!

            - Some plot elements didn't seem to fit into the established timeline, unless my memory is failing me. Drey'auc remarried because she thought Teal'c was dead? Correct me if I'm wrong, but she knew exactly where he was and what he was up to, and Bra'tac could have kept her somewhat more up to date. Similarly, Rya'c accuses Teal'c of promising to return and then never coming back - Christ, kid, it's only been less than a year since he told you he would return, and he made it very clear it was going to take some time!

            RATING: 3.5 out of 10
            Last edited by LeftHandedGuitarist; September 8, 2011, 12:37 PM.
            Private guitar tuition | Return To Grace - rock/pop party band

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by AtlantisRules!!! View Post
              ....
              Did anyone else noticed that (cant think of his name... Teal'c old friend) has a silver mark on his head? What would that mean?
              I wondered about the silver tatoo as well and could only assume it had something to do with Fro'tak's rank in Apophis' administration. Anyway, it wasn't something I noticed prior to this viewing, so there you are!

              And oh, by the way, Apophis returns! Agreed, it appears that he escaped in Serpaint's Lair, though I prefer to think he ringed to a Tel'tak rather than the 'gate before leaving the ship, but hey, it's movie magic!

              I like that Hammond shows his concern and caring for Teal'c. What I don't like about Teal'c in this, and in other episodes, is how misguided he can become when overwhelmed by his emotions.

              RDA is damn hot in this ep; never more so than when dishing out the zingers, "No wonder these guys are always cranky!"

              While the burden of zatting his child is tremendous, the reality is this information sets the scene for 'deprogramming' in Seth. That an innocent child's deepest held fear or resentment is used to turn him into a weapon of mass destruction is another mirror of today's civilization. Knowing it wouldn't kill him, it did appear worth a try. Drey'auc is the only one with pure intentions in this ep and pays a huge price. I was happy she'd find some peace in the Land of Light.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by LeftHandedGuitarist View Post
                I really dislike this episode, and it's an unfair hate because much of what is here is pretty good. Christopher Judge gives a great performance, Jack is really on form. But it's overshadowed by the last 15 minutes or so, which are some of the worst scenes Stargate ever made. I mentioned in 'Bloodlines' that I don't like the kid playing Rya'c, and he is a thousand times worse here.

                It's not entirely his fault, he's given some terrible dialogue to work with, and as an actor he improves drastically once he's older, but here he is damn near unwatchable and it ruins an otherwise interesting episode. The scenes at Fro'tac's house are very enjoyable and there is fun team interaction, not to mention another appearance for the wonderful Bra'tac. But God help me, I never want to have to sit through this one again.

                - It hadn't occurred to me that the SGC assumed Apophis and Klorel were killed when the ships blew up. I always kind of had the impression they escaped, and just assumed everyone else knew! It makes sense that they didn't.

                - The zat shot seemed a very simple solution, making for an unbelievable and unsatisfying conclusion (although I enjoy seeing that little **** Rya'c get shot)

                - How is Jack so knowledgable on electroshock therapy and how similar it is to a zat blast? What's he been up to in his past?

                - The hidden wall in Fro'tac's house blended in fairly seamlessly until the scene where Jack returns in the guard's uniform, where even the most idiotic Jaffa soldier would have figured out where they are hiding!

                - Some plot elements didn't seem to fit into the established timeline, unless my memory is failing me. Drey'auc remarried because she thought Teal'c was dead? Correct me if I'm wrong, but she knew exactly where he was and what he was up to, and Bra'tac could have kept her somewhat more up to date. Similarly, Rya'c accuses Teal'c of promising to return and then never coming back - Christ, kid, it's only been less than a year since he told you he would return, and he made it very clear it was going to take some time!

                RATING: 3.5 out of 10
                I agree with a lot of this. The good parts of the episode still overshadowed the bad parts for me though. Jack doing what he does best.

                I have always liked how a third shot from a zat gun disintegrates a person (Is that the right word?)
                sigpic

                Comment


                  #83
                  I started to watch this episode and then stopped. First one I've skipped during the re-watch. Stories about the Jaffa culture don't resonate for me, I don't know why. Their redeeming aspect is that they often let Chris Judge show his acting chops. Sometimes even that isn't enough to overcome the irritation of the kid who plays Rya'c.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    I'll stick with my earlier comment that Drey'ac is an unsung hero who put up with a lot of crap and doesn't get enough credit.

                    Normally I really love Teal'c but I do not like him at all in this episode. He was selfish and egocentric. No matter how just his cause, he had no right to expect Drey'ac and Ry'ac to make all of the sacrifices for it, and without even giving them a say in the matter. Nor did he have any right to speak to her with such condescension and rudeness. She showed an amazing amount of fortitude and ingenuity in the face of impossibly difficult circumstances. He abandoned them and left them as outcasts and a target of his greatest enemy.

                    His actions toward Drey'ac, Fro'tak and later in regaurd to Ry'ac were all motivated by his injured pride. And it really steamed me how the writers tried to throw it all back on Drey'ac by having her say it was her fault because she didn't really love Fro'tak and she made vows she couldn't keep. I'm not saying that the other characters didn't make mistakes, but Teal'c was never forced to account for his own choices.

                    And then the way he snipped against Jack because he was wary of what Apophis had planned in regard to Ry'ac. Teal'c's conviction that his son was too strong to be overcome, and his absolute unwillingness to concede even the possibility of danger because of his own over blown ego! Teal'c was way out of line.



                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by hlndncr View Post
                      I'll stick with my earlier comment that Drey'ac is an unsung hero who put up with a lot of crap and doesn't get enough credit.

                      Normally I really love Teal'c but I do not like him at all in this episode. He was selfish and egocentric. No matter how just his cause, he had no right to expect Drey'ac and Ry'ac to make all of the sacrifices for it, and without even giving them a say in the matter. Nor did he have any right to speak to her with such condescension and rudeness. She showed an amazing amount of fortitude and ingenuity in the face of impossibly difficult circumstances. He abandoned them and left them as outcasts and a target of his greatest enemy.

                      His actions toward Drey'ac, Fro'tak and later in regaurd to Ry'ac were all motivated by his injured pride. And it really steamed me how the writers tried to throw it all back on Drey'ac by having her say it was her fault because she didn't really love Fro'tak and she made vows she couldn't keep. I'm not saying that the other characters didn't make mistakes, but Teal'c was never forced to account for his own choices.

                      And then the way he snipped against Jack because he was wary of what Apophis had planned in regard to Ry'ac. Teal'c's conviction that his son was too strong to be overcome, and his absolute unwillingness to concede even the possibility of danger because of his own over blown ego! Teal'c was way out of line.
                      Agreed! While I too really love Teal'c...there are times that his "Jaffa revenge thing" and pride issue do get irritating! I like Drey'auc too. She faced a lot of real hardship due to his decision and she handled all of it the best she could. I wish they had just taken her and Ry'ac to the Land of Light right after Bloodlines...would've solved a lot of problems! I mean, i can understand that they wouldn't have had much of a life locked up on earth, but still...leaving them on Chulak was just not good. I think they really could have played this better, although i do think that there is a dark side to Teal'c and that he's not just a super nice guy all the time. Good post hlndncr!
                      Enjoying the Stargate Re-Watch Event: "This should not get old, General!"

                      Noxbait's Fan Fiction

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                        #86
                        Not my favorite ep.

                        But another layer to this story that kept occuring to me was what Jack was thinking and feeling for Teal'c during the whole episode -because Jack lost Charlie, and then he lost Sarah. In the early to mid-ep Teal'c has lost Ry'ac (if temporarily) to abduction, and lost his wife to another man. This has to hit a little close to home for Jack.

                        Some of Teal'c's comments to Drey'auc, while I didn't like them, I chalked up to his hurt and to his culture -from the beginning we are shown that in Jaffa culture that women are second class citizens to men. The fact that Teal'c accepts Sam and interacts so well with her is amazing to me (she was the one he surrendered his weapon to in COTG), and indicates some of his attitudes have changed.

                        I can't say that I enjoyed seeing the rage and pride Teal'c displayed, and how it interfered with his trust in Jack and the team (kudos to Chris Judge, though, on the acting). I did accept most of what I was seeing as very human gut-level emotions tied to his feeling of betrayal by his wife and fear for his son.

                        Oh -and I agree with much of what hlndncr has posted above^^
                        sigpic
                        sig by Ikorni

                        "When Colonel Maybourne and yourself were stranded off world, Major Carter felt a similar sense of frustration. She despaired at the thought of never seeing you again." ~Teal'c
                        "I didn't leave,because I'd have rather died myself,than lose Carter." ~Jack O'Neill


                        SaraBahama FanFic; AO3

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                          #87
                          I also agree with the above three, poor Drey'auc and Rya'c.
                          But I don't know why Bra'tac didn't keep them informed about Teal'c, at least tell them he's alive. And how could he not know about Drey'auc getting married again? Hmm...
                          My LiveJournal post
                          "Thanks to denial, I'm immortal."
                          "A big 'Hello' to all intelligent life out there, and for everyone else, the secret is to bang the rocks together, guys!"
                          "Excuse me, barmaid? You seem to have brought me the wrong offspring. I ordered an extra large boy with beefy arms, extra guts and glory on the side. This here, this is a talking fishbone!"
                          "I'm Jack. It means... what's in the box?"

                          sigpic
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                            #88
                            I tended to notice more with this rewatch how Jack was feeling through all this. It was as much about Jack as it was Teal'c.

                            The scene where Jack gives the baseball glove to Rya'c at the end was a really poignant touch. Also, his face as he watches Teal'c put his arms around his family before stepping through the gate was really sad. It was however mixed with a look of satisfaction that another tragic loss was averted. Helping Teal'c save Rya'c was something Jack could not help doing, he was not going to let another child die ever again, if he could help it.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Average Season 2 episode, as make our way towards The Tok'ra at week's end.

                              Rya'c is back, he looks so small.

                              Tomorrow, Sha're is back, another Movie character makes a transition, and we meet Jacob for the first time.
                              sigpic

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                                #90
                                Originally posted by NowIWillDestroyAbydos View Post

                                Rya'c is back, he looks so small.
                                major thing I noticed during this rewatch is how young everyone looks. With Rya'c being a kid its even more pronounced!

                                and I think that the actor kid did really well with his brainwashed bits.

                                Also watching this in order I find the change in Drey'auc actresses to be more jarring than I remember. I honestly think I forgot about the first one until the rewatch, and the switch just feels more obvious.

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