S10: Critique & Contemplation

[jckfan55]

But back on track; Season 8 Sam was a leader, there was no reason for Season 9/10 Sam not to be. I honestly feel that the character disservice began with sticking her in a research post in Area-51, since that was what SG-1 got her away from. Remember in Children of the Gods, when she's telling people that she should have gone through the Gate instead of Daniel? That didn't suggest that she would be considering the next seven seasons of military adventuring an irritating delay in her scientific career. Myself, I would have been happier for her maternity leave to be written off as 'off overseeing the shakedown cruise of a new battlecruiser' or 'charting some weird anomaly which will bring us into contact with the new enemy without us having to rely on some dodgy tech brought in by captain untrustworthy'.

Excellent point. And I was also thinking along Melora's lines that if all she wanted was to be a scientist she could have resigned from the AF and still done the science as a civilian consultant. I doubt they'd let her go--she could probably write her own ticket.

I do think that if by some strange circumstance she had to choose to give up one, it would be the military and not the science. but I think she'd hate losing her military career.

[EvenstarSRV]

This is an issue I like to raise in the ship discussions. Whatever feelings Sam may or may not have for Jack, she clearly loves being in the Air Force more. Likewise, whatever her love of pure science, the fact that she isn't a pure scientist shows that the military is just as important for her.

In Season 2 she is an uncertain young officer, uncomfortable in her first serious command. In Season 3 she is aware that the flagship team needs more gravitas than her oak leaves will bring to the position, which is not the same thing.

Heh. Character development. Remember when we had that in Stargate?

By Season 6 she was an experinenced leader, quite capable of leading the team during Jack's absence, although her judgement was less than stellar when a friend was in danger and beyond her help (Paradise Lost was not Sam's friend). When she takes full command of her three-strong team in Season 8, there's really not much of a reason for her not to. She has the age, experience, gravitas and clarity to do so; it's just a shame that the need to keep pushing Jack to the fore periodically robs her of opportunities.

It's also a shame that they didn't use Season 8 to introduce SG-1's new captain, or even Major Cam Mitchell, working on the F-302 program as a consultant while he recovers from his crash in the Antarctic, for which action he was modestly decorated. Just imagine that; if the new guy in Season 9 had been someone we ha actually seen before.

But back on track; Season 8 Sam was a leader, there was no reason for Season 9/10 Sam not to be. I honestly feel that the character disservice began with sticking her in a research post in Area-51, since that was what SG-1 got her away from. Remember in Children of the Gods, when she's telling people that she should have gone through the Gate instead of Daniel? That didn't suggest that she would be considering the next seven seasons of military adventuring an irritating delay in her scientific career. Myself, I would have been happier for her maternity leave to be written off as 'off overseeing the shakedown cruise of a new battlecruiser' or 'charting some weird anomaly which will bring us into contact with the new enemy without us having to rely on some dodgy tech brought in by captain untrustworthy'.

Great post, I totally agree.

I agree I believe her love of country is why she stayed in the military civic duty. It just drives me crazy when some can cast aside her PH.D in science and make the military #1

And forgive me, but it drives me equally crazy when people seem to forget that Sam is a career military officer as well as being a career scientist. It's about not casting aside her military service, rank and ambitions and acknowledging that she does possess multiple skill sets, and not pigeon-holing her into just being a scientist.

I really don't think Cam was a bad choice for leader sorry if you disagree but I think it has less to do with Cam than it has to do with you if you were not willing to accept a new male lead when the original male lead left then this discussion will go in circles.

For myself, my issues with Mitchell have absolutely nothing to do with BB joining the show after RDA left, and everything to do with how the character was written. I watched part of S9 and all of S10 mixed in with reruns of S1-8, so I was constantly bouncing back and forth between the two actors/characters' presence on the show.

Had they brought in Mitchell as a full-bird Colonel SGC officer to take command of SG-1, I would have been sad that Sam didn't get to stay in command, but I wouldn't have been doubting his qualifications for the position.

as a character Cameron started season 9 with a ton of potential. But then as he was written differently to fit whatever role they needed, never got a plot arc/story arc, he went from potential new lead to 'new guy whose name is first in the credits but doesn't even carry a plot line' and he was almost schizophrenic in how he was written differently almost every week to make the plot work. the character was continually sacrificed to make a story work.

It seemed like Mitchell's main story arc was just getting the team back together, which happened relatively early in S9. After that, most of his development seemed to be dealing with fleshing out his past as opposed to integrating him into the current storylines, aside from the short-lived Sodan arc.

[hedwig]

I really don't think Cam was a bad choice for leader sorry if you disagree but I think it has less to do with Cam than it has to do with you if you were not willing to accept a new male lead when the original male lead left then this discussion will go in circles.

I would just like to add to this discussion about Mitchell being brought in to lead SG1 - at the beginning of the episode Avalon, when Cam is shown seeing the gate for the first time, one of the techs asks Walter "Who is that?" And after identifying Cam Mitchell, Walter goes on to say "two years ago ... dogfight over Antarctica, ..." blah, blah, blah ...

If for no other reason than this, Cam should never have been given the lead of SG1. He had been out of commission from his injuries for two years, the early part of which apparently it was thought he wouldn't survive; then he had to go through extensive rehabilitation to even walk again (including putting some kind of metal pin in one leg - as he commented on in another episode) ... most of this would likely have taken up a lot of that two years.

And I can see the "two years" part, even though in the course of the series it was one year, because there were at least 20 episodes, some of which episodes took place over the course of a couple of months, so it is quite possible two years had passed between the fight over Antarctica and Mitchell seeing the gate for the first time.

I will never be convinced that Mitchell was qualified to lead any SG team at that point, and I do feel he was a bad choice to lead. Maybe another squadron of F302's, but not an SG team, and especially not SG1.

[suse]

I also think some of you take the episode Proving Ground way too seriously I think that was just 1 way into the SG program not the only way.

Fine, if he'd been given the skill set needed to bypass the training. He wasn't.

I really don't think Cam was a bad choice for leader sorry if you disagree but I think it has less to do with Cam than it has to do with you if you were not willing to accept a new male lead when the original male lead left then this discussion will go in circles.

I challenge you to find *one* place in this thread where we have said that.

Seriously, 99.44% of the people who post on this thread understand that Rick left to raise his daughter. And wish him the best. And were expecting to like the new guy. Oops.

They should of had a new character in season 8 but then how do you focus on the team when the star of the show is not on the team anymore.

The same was they did. Just with another cast member added to the team and several less stories focusing on O'Neill.

suse

[Allie_Kreek]

Seriously, 99.44% of the people who post on this thread understand that Rick left to raise his daughter. And wish him the best. And were expecting to like the new guy. Oops.

i was actually getting used to not seeing so much of O'Neill and quickly came to terms with the fact he was leaving - i was even a little excited. i knew BB from Farscape and was looking forward to seeing how they'd fit him into the team. i was expecting to like mitchell but in the end i was disappointed with the character. He had very little personality and his actions were questionable. Plus the hero antics started getting old really really fast... actually Mitchell reminded me of Colonel Danning!

[slurredspeech]

i was actually getting used to not seeing so much of O'Neill and quickly came to terms with the fact he was leaving...

I challenge you to find *one* place in this thread where we have said that.

Seriously, 99.44% of the people who post on this thread understand that Rick left to raise his daughter. And wish him the best. And were expecting to like the new guy.

This.

I find it a tad -- I want to say insulting, but then I'm really not easily insulted, so insert a word similar yet much less indignant -- when it's presumed that people can't form their own opinions based on anything more than a childish one-dimensional feet-stomping tantrum-like sentiment of spite over their beloved character leaving the show.

I'm one of the people who were open to Mitchell and the new threat the writers decided to introduce in S9. Both were executed badly, IMHO. Not 'compared to' Jack or the Goa'uld, but in their own right. Had Mitchell been an interesting, well thought-out and well-developed character, I would have enjoyed him. Simple as that.

It's funny, really. Do people really think that somewhere between S8 and 9, folk - otherwise fans of the show - consciously decided they were going to dislike the show they previously loved... just because? That they were not going to allow themselves to be entertained? *shakes head* I adore SG-1. I wanted to adore it until the very end. I want my shows - especially Stargate, being one of my favs - to entertain me, grab me, make me care, make me forget about RL for 45 minutes and engross me in this world they created.

It failed. And implying it's somehow through the fault of my own is a bit silly and very incorrect.

[suse]

This.

I find it a tad -- I want to say insulting, but then I'm really not easily insulted, so insert a word similar yet much less indignant -- when it's presumed that people can't form their own opinions based on anything more than a childish one-dimensional feet-stomping tantrum-like sentiment of spite over their beloved character leaving the show.

I'm one of the people who were open to Mitchell and the new threat the writers decided to introduce in S9. Both were executed badly, IMHO. Not 'compared to' Jack or the Goa'uld, but in their own right. Had Mitchell been an interesting, well thought-out and well-developed character, I would have enjoyed him. Simple as that.

It's funny, really. Do people really think that somewhere between S8 and 9, folk - otherwise fans of the show - consciously decided they were going to dislike the show they previously loved... just because? That they were not going to allow themselves to be entertained? *shakes head* I adore SG-1. I wanted to adore it until the very end. I want my shows - especially Stargate, being one of my favs - to entertain me, grab me, make me care, make me forget about RL for 45 minutes and engross me in this world they created.

It failed. And implying it's somehow through the fault of my own is a bit silly and very incorrect.

FTW. Yep.

When S9 started I knew RDA was gone and Ben was there. Great. Really. While I wasn't impressed with his Farscape character - I seem to like the supporting characters better - I knew he was a decent actor. Not having been on the forums, I had NO clue that the character was going to be the team lead. I knew that AT would be gone the first month or so of filming, but coming from a military family, figured something like what happened in Spirits would happen. Was quite a shock - read DISAPPOINTMENT - to realize that the writers were going to go with the tripe that the male lead *must* lead for a sci-fi show to work. I honestly didn't even put that together til the patch scene happened. It was beyond insulting.

When Vala was added to the mix I was concerned - I despised PU, but not overly, assuming erroneously again that they would make her less over the top. I knew that was doomed to fail as soon as she came through the Stargate and proceded to throw sexual 'banter' around. The outfit was also a good indicator. So, so *funny*. <<--sarcasm alert And over the next several eps - despite a very few inklings that this character could be more with different writing - all the writers did was confirm my worst feelings when I first saw her and when 'the best of the best for the SG-1 team' were being interviewed by Mitchell.


Still, I held out hope that as soon as Vala was gone, they would come back to their senses and recreate the team. Well, they recreated the team - sorta, but the 'come back to their senses' bit was a gaping hole (imo). I realized in The Fourth Horseman that the show as I loved it was over. But there were *just* enough decent bits to keep trying. Intermittant reenforcement at it's finest... And S10 was better, if even only marginally. But it never overcame the issues that caused S9 to be the worst on my SG-1 ranking of seasons. Indeed, S9 is so low there are empty placeholders between it and S10.

suse

[suse]

Interesting. I'm listening to Amanda's interview on the Continuum podcast. She notes how having the AF oversee helped them get the details right - added an air of authenticity. The advisor really must have not been onset much - or jsut let a lot go. There's no way what happened in S9/S10 would have happened in the earlier years.

suse

[Mandysg1]

Interesting. I'm listening to Amanda's interview on the Continuum podcast. She notes how having the AF oversee helped them get the details right - added an air of authenticity. The advisor really must have not been onset much - or jsut let a lot go. There's no way what happened in S9/S10 would have happened in the earlier years.

suse

Well Continuum did have Brad Wright heading the movie and not Coop, that could account for the difference. Also note Brad was busy with Atlantis when Coop was 'running' SG1 into the ground.

[EvenstarSRV]

Interesting. I'm listening to Amanda's interview on the Continuum podcast. She notes how having the AF oversee helped them get the details right - added an air of authenticity. The advisor really must have not been onset much - or jsut let a lot go. There's no way what happened in S9/S10 would have happened in the earlier years.

What struck me in that interview was when the female commentator was talking about how Sam is almost always calm and in control, and how AT felt playing the character that way. And AT replied that that was very much a product of Sam's military background, that when you're dealing with guns and such in a battle you have be in control of your emotions, otherwise it's (paraphrasing here) 'whoops, I got carried away there and accidentally blew up a building.'

I couldn't help but be reminded of Mitchell's 'I'm having bad day' moment in Stronghold.

[suse]

What struck me in that interview was when the female commentator was talking about how Sam is almost always calm and in control, and how AT felt playing the character that way. And AT replied that that was very much a product of Sam's military background, that when you're dealing with guns and such in a battle you have be in control of your emotions, otherwise it's (paraphrasing here) 'whoops, I got carried away there and accidentally blew up a building.'

I couldn't help but be reminded of Mitchell's 'I'm having bad day' moment in Stronghold.

So that's what she said! I missed a bit, was @ Starbucks and was hearing other stuff too. Oh, that comment *forcibly* reminds me of Stronghold. And Off The Grid to an extent, he got in trouble because he didn't have patience...

suse

[Rogue]

But if Sam was a scientist first, why did she not go back to R&D/Area 51 after the Ori threat was neutralized? Why did she take two different command positions (Altantis and the Hammond) over science?

On one hand, it could be because in the military you don't really get a choice, you go where you superiors send you; where they think you'll do the most good. Interesting then that Sam's superiors thought she had more to offer as a commander than a scientist...on the other, maybe it's because Sam is a career military officer who is proud of her rank and service and wants to continue to climb up the ladder...

Or maybe it's because TPTB had no idea what to do with the character aside from knowing they wanted her out of the way so the shiny new action hero could take command of the team.

IMO TPTB lost interest in Sam in S8. Instead of focusing on her command abilities, they focus on personal issues which seem to make her weak and indecisive. S9 and S10 was a waste of Amanda's talent.

[jckfan55]

I was listening to the commentary for Insiders (the multiple Ba'al episode) and they were saying they added the scene with Barrett & Sam in the cafeteria b/c the ep ran short. they said something about having to do it based on actor availability. My first thought was, "no wonder they had Amanda do it--it's not like she was doing anything else that season."

[hedwig]

IMO TPTB lost interest in Sam in S8. Instead of focusing on her command abilities, they focus on personal issues which seem to make her weak and indecisive. S9 and S10 was a waste of Amanda's talent.

I have read somewhere on these forums that Amanda was the only cast member that was not contacted about returning to the series in Season 9. (Apparently with Jack gone, they seemed to feel Sam had nowhere to go in the series????) She actually had to call the producers herself to find out if she was going to be returning or if she ought to look for other work. She was told they simply didn't know what to do with her character. But evidently they decided they wanted/needed her and so worked out a contract with her. And as shown by Seasons 9 and 10, they indeed seemed not to know what to do with her. But I'm still very happy she returned (since I would not have continued to watch had she not been included).

[slurredspeech]

I was listening to the commentary for Insiders (the multiple Ba'al episode) and they were saying they added the scene with Barrett & Sam in the cafeteria b/c the ep ran short. they said something about having to do it based on actor availability. My first thought was, "no wonder they had Amanda do it--it's not like she was doing anything else that season."

I have read somewhere on these forums that Amanda was the only cast member that was not contacted about returning to the series in Season 9. (Apparently with Jack gone, they seemed to feel Sam had nowhere to go in the series????) She actually had to call the producers herself to find out if she was going to be returning or if she ought to look for other work.

How... unwise of them.