S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ReganX]

Her reference to her past life to the Earth people were plain comic devices. Vala is smart enough to know what she can and what she cannot say to people. The whole "I'm bored" stuff had gotten a little old by then, but I've already explained in earlierl posts why I think it is completely OOC for someone like Vala.

All I can say is that she must have been a singularly unsuccessful con artist if she can't blend with and adapt to her surroundings and companions better than that.

I vastly prefer the intelligent Vala.

[ReganX]

Oy, it's starting to sound like the old 'pro' stance that the only reason we don't like S9 and 10 is b/c Jack wasn't on it

I missed Jack - still do - but I can adapt to his absence. It was some of the things that happened after he left that bother me.

[jckfan55]

I couldn't agree more. Where's the Daniel from the first couple of seasons? I agree that people grow, develop and change - but the changes that happened between Seasons 8 to 9 and Daniel to Jackson were horrible. It would have been great to see him get older and wiser and to become a wonderful mentor and giver of sage advice after thoughtful contemplation - or to have him still show some of that quick-to-see-the-best-in-others occassionally. It's sad to see people grow old and bitter and jaded and cranky. Sad... and not something that I watch for entertainment.

Teal'c should also have become more of a mentor - someone who shares his vast depth of experiences with others... someone from whom his words are considered gifts.

Carter should have been shown as a female competently handling command of the field unit that she was once a fresh-faced Captain on. Again, she should have been mentoring the newbies, and she should have been shown utilizing and drawing on her years of experience in the field, through the Stargate and under Jack's less-than-by-the-book-command (there should have been some innovative, outside-the-box field decisions with references back to her earlier years with SG-1 and O'Neill's command).

Argh!!! Where was all of that?

And where was the care and concern for each other between these original three?

All sacrificed for the new male lead and the new female lead characters... around whom most everything was to now orbit and supplicate???? Ugh!!!

Great post. I can't green ya. With your version of SG1 S8 & 10 they would have gone out on a high note. As it was, it was painful. It's as though they set out to destroy everything that made SG1 what it was while trying to tell us it was still SG1. What's that sayiing? Don't pee on my shoe and tell me it's raining.

[jckfan55]

Don't forget to add RDA to that, because he was just as bad. Apparently he and CJ used to have farting contests on the set and he was just as immature as the rest of them. Not as horrid as PD and GJ though. And before season 8, they did a good job at keeping the stupid fratboy stuff off the screen, where it belongs.

I think RDA could have adult moments and draw the line on some things. He apparently vetoed one too many Siler and his wrench jokes.

Then it creeped on, and it was obviously the writers doing it, not the actors themselves. I remember thinking during Mobius about what the heck was going on with all the off-colorish jokes and scenes because we'd never really seen it too much before. (I'm sorry, but as much as a Sam fan as I am, I would have rather seen the rebellion than alt-her and alt-Jack making out in the jumper like a couple of sluts. And all those things about Alt-Daniel being gay and his ESL class guy saying he makes him so hot, Um NO. )

I'm a Sam fan and a Jack fan & I'm with you. And not just b/c I'm not a shipper. I'll prepare for the rotten tomatoes, but I thought a lot of Moebius was OTT. Some of it was funny, but it felt a bit like "ok let's be funny" Those tend to be my least favorite episodes. Humor IN an episode yes; Humor AS the episode, no.
A poor season finale,IMHO, particularly when they had basically ended the season in the previous episode.

I think TPTB's Daniel issues reveal more about themselves than Daniel.

[AGateFan]

Mobieus was a bad season finally. It was over the top and the characters were out of character. But AT LEAST it was AU. As in it was acknowledge that the "real" characters would never act that way. It was like a mid season one off AU ep that was made into a season finally.

S9-S10 was two seasons of bad AU eps with no acknowledgement that the real characters would never be so stupid or so doormatish.

1-2 eps I can forgive....1-2 entire seasons, notsomuch.

I always THINK my enjoyment of previous seasons are affected. But if I start watching a pre S9 ep (particuarly something in 1-6) the love floods back and I can lose myself in the show. Only after its over do I get angry at what they have done. I have not however managed to put any of my DVDs in recently.

[jckfan55]

I always THINK my enjoyment of previous seasons are affected. But if I start watching a pre S9 ep (particuarly something in 1-6) the love floods back and I can lose myself in the show. Only after its over do I get angry at what they have done. I have not however managed to put any of my DVDs in recently.

Yeah, I kind of get a "boy this *was* good feeling when I watch the older eps.

[ReganX]

I always THINK my enjoyment of previous seasons are affected. But if I start watching a pre S9 ep (particuarly something in 1-6) the love floods back and I can lose myself in the show. Only after its over do I get angry at what they have done. I have not however managed to put any of my DVDs in recently.

For me, since I saw Season Nine before I saw most of the earlier seasons, I found that they looked absolutely fabulous by comparison. It's possible that my impression of them was more favourable than it would have been under other circumstances, because they were so much better than Season Nine.

[binkpmmc]

Oh yeah, poundpuppy29, the RDA pedestal is a bit irritating. I think the guy is completely awesome. snip, snip for space.
But I do think he was able to keep a lot of the goofyness off the screen, which is also why he won't allow blooper reels of the early years to materialize. Off screen and on screen are separate, and the writers seem to not beable to separate that any longer.

I want to be clear (and I agree completely with the bolded quote above) - I am sure there was enough juvenile pranking going on for everyone, I have heard that RDA, AT and many others all have their own moments and the only reason I mentioned those I mentioned in my original post was because it seems more prevelant with them especially PDD, GJ from commentary which seems to focus on their bathroom fetishes as opposed to their TV production, direction and acting skills and a Con never goes by with CJ and MS in attendance that they don't seem to focus on juvenile crap - hey if they think that stuff is funny good for them but it does not belong in a TV show. I am not saying it was the actors who brought it to the show I am saying that even though it was prevelant with almost everyone on the show it never seemd to be something they brought into the show on a regular basis - of course there were lapses like that dopey cat fight in the Felger episode - please if that could have been any more juvenile and ridiculous it would have been laughable instead of painfully embarrassing. The show wasn't perfect before cooper took over but it was a hell of a lot better with higher quality and integrity being 90-95% of the show.

Setting aside on-set antics I do believe that when RDA was involved the show lived up to the kinds of things I said about it - a few scenes admittedly over the years they could have taken the high road but didn't but it was not every episode, it was not even a majority of episodes, that these types of bad judgment scenes appeared in. Unfortunately with the institution of cooper as showrunner those scenes became a weekly fixture and then in S9-10 they became regular with the inclusion of vala and mitchell. IMO it went from a show that was 90-95% high quality and integrity to a show that was low-brow humour, low quality with little to no integrity -- taken over by the frat-boy, juvenile, sci-fi cliche humour.

vala brought, on an episode by episode basis sexual innuendo, sci-fi cliche whorelette antics and puerile crap and mitchell just brought into play the really bad judgment overall with the handling of the characters of mitchell and Carter. That disasterous direction alone sunk the integrity of the show.

I have seen and heard about plenty of scenes, including those that do not include vala or mitchell, which bring that pre-pubescent "humour" to the fore such as that crap with Landry, Lam and Carter in the observation room and his sick mention of the "relationship" Carter had with Orlin as a 13 year old boy sits in adult Orlin's place - what pure dreck, absolutely appalling and uncalled for - she should have slapped him, General or not, for being such a pr!(k, that as well as too many to mention other scenes just sealed it that the frat-boy, pre-pubescent "humour" took precedence over the quality and integrity of the show that had run so successfully for so many years prior to cooper's showrunning ruined it and resulted in its cancellation.

I blame first and foremost cooper the showrunner and his band of lemmings some of who ran in the gutter with him and others who ran right along the edge of the gutter with him and professed to be making the "bestest season of SG-1 eva!!" while basicaly dismantling it in favor of a weekly sci-fi cliche ridden comedy about a bunch of "screw-ups" with a token sci-fi whorlette for "fun, fun, fun". Wake-up and grow-up PTB.

[Nikki]

I want to be clear (and I agree completely with the bolded quote above) - I am sure there was enough juvenile pranking going on for everyone, I have heard that RDA, AT and many others all have their own moments and the only reason I mentioned those I mentioned in my original post was because it seems more prevelant with them especially PDD, GJ from commentary which seems to focus on their bathroom fetishes as opposed to their TV production, direction and acting skills and a Con never goes by with CJ and MS in attendance that they don't seem to focus on juvenile crap - hey if they think that stuff is funny good for them but it does not belong in a TV show. I am not saying it was the actors who brought it to the show I am saying that even though it was prevelant with almost everyone on the show it never seemd to be something they brought into the show on a regular basis - of course there were lapses like that dopey cat fight in the Felger episode - please if that could have been any more juvenile and ridiculous it would have been laughable instead of painfully embarrassing. The show wasn't perfect before cooper took over but it was a hell of a lot better with higher quality and integrity being 90-95% of the show.

Setting aside on-set antics I do believe that when RDA was involved the show lived up to the kinds of things I said about it - a few scenes admittedly over the years they could have taken the high road but didn't but it was not every episode, it was not even a majority of episodes, that these types of bad judgment scenes appeared in. Unfortunately with the institution of cooper as showrunner those scenes became a weekly fixture and then in S9-10 they became regular with the inclusion of vala and mitchell. IMO it went from a show that was 90-95% high quality and integorty to a show that was low-brow humour, low quality with little to no integrity -- taken over by the frat-boy, juvenile, sci-fi cliche humour.

vala brought, on an episode by episode basis sexual innuendo, sci-fi cliche whorelette antics and puerile crap and mitchell just brought into play the really bad judgment overall with the handling of the characters of mitchell and Carter. That disasterous direction alone sunk the integrity of the show.

I have seen and heard about plenty of scenes, including those that do not include vala or mitchell, which bring that pre-pubescent "humour" to the fore such as that crap with Landry, Lam and Carter in the observation room and his sick mention of the "relationship" Carter had with Orlin as a 13 year old boy sits in adult Orlin's place - what pure dreck, absolutely appalling and uncalled for - she should have slapped him, General or not, for being such a pr!(k, that as well as too many to mention other scenes just sealed it that the frat-boy, pre-pubescent "humour" took precedence over the quality and integrity of the show that had run so successfully for so many years prior to cooper's showrunning ruined it and resulted in its cancellation.

I blame first and foremost cooper the showrunner and his band of lemmings some of who ran in the gutter with him and others who ran right along the edge of the gutter with him and professed to be making the "bestest season of SG-1 eva!!" while basicaly dismantling it in favor of a weekly sci-fi cliche ridden comedy about a bunch of "screw-ups" with a token sci-fi whorlette for "fun, fun, fun". Wake-up and grow-up PTB.

Amazing post! Couldn't agree with you more - hit every nail on the head there - well done!

[Mandysg1]

<snip>The show wasn't perfect before cooper took over but it was a hell of a lot better with higher quality and integrity being 90-95% of the show.

Very good post bink!

And I think you hit the nail on the head especially with the integrity of the show. Take the episode The Other Side... O'Neill knew they could get a lot of advancements from Alar, and was fighting Daniel every step of the way not to cause trouble. But when he realized what was happening he made the decision that 'the price was too high'. At the end when he closed the iris on Alar, he wasn't smiling and celebrating that the bad guy was dead. You could see by looks on his face that is would be something that would haunt him. And the look Sam gave him, he knew that she also knew what he did.

This episode showed that they had to live with the consequences of their actions, even if it was only having to live with what they have done.

[suse]

Quote regarding Bounty

She didn't regress only in terms of clothes (no one over 15 can pull off that kind of outfit without giving off a certain kind of message), but generally. Her reference to her past life to the Earth people were plain comic devices. Vala is smart enough to know what she can and what she cannot say to people. The whole "I'm bored" stuff had gotten a little old by then, but I've already explained in earlierl posts why I think it is completely OOC for someone like Vala.

Is this why, when she as in the Ori galaxy in that other woman's body, she couldn't keep her mouth shut and ended up getting herself burned at the stake? Please don't say she didn't know what would happen, by that point they knew they were supposed to keep a low profile. And she mouthed off about the wrong thing. Because she couldn't resist the urge to open her mouth shut.

Seems the whole "I'm bored" persona is perfectly in character to me...

Perhaps the persona might be OOC for someone like how Vala *could* have been written. However... <<<SIGH>>> I wish she had been written better too.


suse

[Skydiver]

i know rick was a goof. I know PdL is the potty humor king. I know the boys got in farting contests. and i think their juvenile antics are part of what made the set such a fun and desirable place to work.

That's one thing i'd hear more and more from guest actors, how much fun hte set was.

but they had the good sense to keep it OFF the tape. it was on teh set, just not part of the finished product.

As coop got more and more control...or maybe it was 'guidance' from scifi, the juvenile stuff crept more and more off the set and onto the tape. And that creeping is part of what folks have noticed and not cared for. and it set the stage for vala's quips to be ok and landry to hint about orlin, and the felger catfight adn other bits of silliness.

jsut as the characters devolved from 'honorable little humans that could' into 'intergalactic goofups treasure hunting' the humor turned from smart and classy to teenaged silliness

[heliosphere]

As coop got more and more control...or maybe it was 'guidance' from scifi, the juvenile stuff crept more and more off the set and onto the tape. And that creeping is part of what folks have noticed and not cared for. and it set the stage for vala's quips to be ok and landry to hint about orlin, and the felger catfight adn other bits of silliness.

jsut as the characters devolved from 'honorable little humans that could' into 'intergalactic goofups treasure hunting' the humor turned from smart and classy to teenaged silliness

That's a very good point. The influence from sci-fi channel might be way more oppressive than we think. Their entire channel seems to skew to juvenile these days; in fact, look at the popularity with the preferred demographics of some of the same crud in movies? Fart jokes, sex jokes, half naked chick acting like a bimbo and the guy acting like a testosterone doofus- That's the plot of so many movies these days, and they make money. No wonder they wanted to turn SG1 into it.

And I'm not as familliar, with Atlantis, but I understand that it's slowly creeping into that show as well from the complaints I have seen that aren't about trashing poor Sam. (I have no idea who Lucius is, but apparently he was on a few times and fits the demographic's desires? )

And sorry to bring up the actor stuff earlier. I just don't like it when some are singled out for behaving poorly and others that do the same stuff aren't mentioned but are just as bad. But either way, they all could be crossdressing jello-wrestling strippers in their spare time, as long as it's not reflected on screen in the characters they are portraying. We all goof off when we're not at work too.

[RealmOfX]

Actually I think blaming SciFi for decisions made is a cop out.

Do television networks that foot part of the production bill have influence over what goes on the screen? Sure!!

BUT it is up to the showrunner to control the direction of the show. They managed for years to not go the route of puerile, cliched scripts and the earlier PTB even commented how they didn't need Tokra spice and accompanying garbage to clutter up their storylines, that it didn't work and got rid of her. What's Coop's excuse for Vala??? Come the era of Cooper and as his influence gradually increases so does the juvenile garbage start to increase and the slow dismantling of everything that made Stargate unique.

The studio can make demands but it is the showrunner who has ultimate control, or in this case no control apparently! Quality?? What's that?

[ReganX]

Actually I think blaming SciFi for decisions made is a cop out.

Do television networks that foot part of the production bill have influence over what goes on the screen? Sure!!

BUT it is up to the showrunner to control the direction of the show. They managed for years to not go the route of puerile, cliched scripts and the earlier PTB even commented how they didn't need Tokra spice and accompanying garbage to clutter up their storylines, that it didn't work and got rid of her. What's Coop's excuse for Vala??? Come the era of Cooper and as his influence gradually increases so does the juvenile garbage start to increase and the slow dismantling of everything that made Stargate unique.

The studio can make demands but it is the showrunner who has ultimate control, or in this case no control apparently! Quality?? What's that?

True; for example, even if TPTB are told that they must hire a particular actor, it's up to them to decide how they will write their character.