S10: Critique & Contemplation

[RealmOfX]

This was the season Brad Wright was gone, right? So the spiral started and with Brad "back" in S8 but not really because he's busy with baby sister Atlantis and Michael Greenberg leaving the show got even more shaky. Then RDA left so "quality control" Gekko was completely gone. So we have S9 and a slight improvement for S10 becasue Brad is watching a bit closer. Is this accurate?

Suse

Yep - almost 3.5 seasons later it is relatively easy to see the effect putting RCC in as showrunner had on the show.

One aspect (and there are many) I don't like is the presentation of women. I got bored (I'm home sick) and tracked the creative staff for both shows for all the eps and it's interesting to note that RCC becomes showrunner and all female writers disappear (who were in short supply anyway) from SG-1. Atlantis has managed a few eps per season with some female writing input. The advent of showrunner RCC also coincides with the two strong female roles changing, Janet is hardly there and is then killed off. Sam starts to get stereotyped into "the girl".

By S9 Sam is kicked off as SG-1 lead (they still haven't explained why so I'm sticking with sexist reasons) and wallpapered, also we get the addition of "The Bimbo". Someone made the comparison the female content since S9 as being very anime style (I think Sky and someone else were talking about it). My take on the majority of anime is that women are mens playthings, they'll be given token positions of authority and then made to act like 13yo hormonal schoolgirls complete with pigtails and short skirts. Sound familiar? I can't remember which half of M&M is into anime but I know one of them is. (Sky is it Mallozzi?)

Add in a lousy new bunch of bad guys, marty & mary sue, shoddy writing and everything else you all have recently been discussing and you have a show with dropping ratings that gets cancelled.

I've been following the DVCKS thread and occasionally puting my 2c worth in but I seriously believe that RCC's creative choices and handling of the show resulted in it's cancellation. Aided and abetted by M&M as EP's.

[Zoser]

Good point. The feel of the show did start changing around Full Circle and with Daniel coming back.

I think the big difference from today we did still have Jack around to remind us that maybe the ‘meaning of life thinggie’ is some people’s (and maybe the Ancient’s) idea of paradise, it wasn’t Jack’s. His idea of paradise is a cabin in Minnesota, a beautiful sunny day, a fishing rod and a cold one. Cam and/or Landry are not written to balance Daniel out like Jack was.

I’m agreeing with Surf here too about the more we learn about the Ancients the more I really dislike them. Part of me really hopes that Merlin’s ‘Super Weapon” is a complete bust and Earth’s got to figure out a way to *gasp* save ourselves.

It would be interesting. It would be creative.

The writers will never do it.

Or perhaps Merlin’s ‘Super Weapon” could wipe out all these pesky ascended beings bOri and Ancient.

[Skydiver]

joe mallozzi is a HUGE anime fan

and i do agree and feel that coop has issues with women, and his personal issues color how the two female characters are treated on the show

he write an eps - sateda - and it kicks bootie. it's great, dramatic, team moments, caring for thier friend

then we get MM

where vala is daniel's crush and is kidnapped and everyone has to rescue her and then she gets the smarmy 'yes, youearned it'

MM is night and day from Sateda yet, at their most basic, they're the same story (missing/kidnapped team member, in danger, friends coming to teh rescue'

yet while sateda is great for ronon, the main feeling aobut MM was 'crappy story although claudia did the best with what she was given'

coop cant' seem to handle a woman unless she's a vulnerable cliche. needing to be rescued, wallpapered to boose up the ego of the guys, half of a ship

coop has issues with women, imho, and because of this neither sam or vala will every get a fair shake as long as he's callng the shots

[pittsburghgirl]

Sky-Amen sister!

[Mandysg1]

It's too bad Brad couldn't see what was happening, after all SG1 was his baby, and he just handed it over to the nanny from hell, even if he wasn't in on the day to day activities, you would think he would still keep an eye on it...and if he thought what was happening was fine, then he has lost touch with his audience as much as Coop did

[Flowerbud]

Really great, interesting points! What I don't understand is why Brad Wright is not more concerned and sitting down and analyzing what went wrong.

I don't see SG-1 getting more than a TV-movie on the Sci-Fi channel. The only other show they have is Atlantis and they recently built the brand new gorgeous sets that I'm sure they are still paying for. Atlantis's ratings are not that much better than SG-1 and then, there will be a 6 month wait for the second half of the season. I can easily see Atlantis being canceled after the first few episodes of Season 4 if its ratings don't improve or worse if they fall, especially if they add some of the expensive cast members from SG-1.

Maybe RCC is holding something over BW, so he can't fire Coop. BTW, I'm joking.

[RealmOfX]

Really great, interesting points! What I don't understand is why Brad Wright is not more concerned and sitting down and analyzing what went wrong.

I don't see SG-1 getting more than a TV-movie on the Sci-Fi channel. The only other show they have is Atlantis and they recently built the brand new gorgeous sets that I'm sure they are still paying for. Atlantis's ratings are not that much better than SG-1 and then, there will be a 6 month wait for the second half of the season. I can easily see Atlantis being canceled after the first few episodes of Season 4 if its ratings don't improve or worse if they fall, especially if they add some of the expensive cast members from SG-1.

Maybe RCC is holding something over BW, so he can't fire Coop. BTW, I'm joking.

BW may have already done that (between seasons) - there is a distinct difference between S9 & S10 however having brought in two main characters and shoved them into prominence it actually limits what you can do. It is difficult to step back and analyse your own and your work mates creative product when you are bogged down in the day to day grind, some people can do it and some people can't and some people can be trained to do it.

I'm really not sure what the future holds for Stargate but the suits want to continue so it probably will - I just hope that RCC is never made a showrunner again.

I get the feeling that there is a lot going on with the money men and it is possible that RCC is more willing to go with what the suits want than the others. I suggest this possibility because the "formula" type stuff dramatically turned up when RCC got practical sole control in S9 however I won't speculate further because we just don't have enough information to draw accurate conclusions.

The cancellation by Skiffy and the putting of Stargate on iTunes were the public shots of big money fighting it out but there is a lot we just don't see or ever get to know about. I see the splitting of BW and RCC to seperate series as a possible move influenced by the money men and internal creative differences. We know something big happened before S9 started, there are indications that Mitchell was originally going to be a major and S9 has a very slap dash feel to it. Unfortunately we may never know what happened.

I too worry about Atlantis if they can't get something else up and running as they were getting cost sharing benefits from running two shows at once. If they can't get something else running then Atlantis' costs will increase proportionally and they will need higher ratings to cope with increased costs.

[Flowerbud]

I guess the money men got greedy and may end up killing the franchise. Sad.

I hope Atlantis can pull through and BW will be its showrunner. As other posters have mentioned, RCC can't write women and that's a good chunk of the Stargate audience. I really dislike the Vala character and actually was the reason I stopped watching SG-1 last year.

[Descent]

Well, slight in a cesspool is still rather smelly.

I'd forgotten Brad made that comment. I really can't see how they don't see that this inbred way of creating a show is killing/has killed it. Honestly, let's lose two EP and promote from within but only hire one writer (who needs help with plot development) to replace those promoted, just give them another hat. Sure. That'll work.

Yeah, one new writer, that'll work. Whats worse is that I now dread another Joe and Paul episode and they've been tasked with writing too many episodes these days, you can just imagine how I feel.

But its strange, the J & M eps on Atlantis at least have a few redeeming qualties about them. The humors still there. It probably has something to do with BW doing the rewrites instead of RCC.

[Rogue]

Yep - almost 3.5 seasons later it is relatively easy to see the effect putting RCC in as showrunner had on the show.

One aspect (and there are many) I don't like is the presentation of women. I got bored (I'm home sick) and tracked the creative staff for both shows for all the eps and it's interesting to note that RCC becomes showrunner and all female writers disappear (who were in short supply anyway) from SG-1. Atlantis has managed a few eps per season with some female writing input. The advent of showrunner RCC also coincides with the two strong female roles changing, Janet is hardly there and is then killed off. Sam starts to get stereotyped into "the girl".

By S9 Sam is kicked off as SG-1 lead (they still haven't explained why so I'm sticking with sexist reasons) and wallpapered, also we get the addition of "The Bimbo". Someone made the comparison the female content since S9 as being very anime style (I think Sky and someone else were talking about it). My take on the majority of anime is that women are mens playthings, they'll be given token positions of authority and then made to act like 13yo hormonal schoolgirls complete with pigtails and short skirts. Sound familiar? I can't remember which half of M&M is into anime but I know one of them is. (Sky is it Mallozzi?)

Add in a lousy new bunch of bad guys, marty & mary sue, shoddy writing and everything else you all have recently been discussing and you have a show with dropping ratings that gets cancelled.

I've been following the DVCKS thread and occasionally puting my 2c worth in but I seriously believe that RCC's creative choices and handling of the show resulted in it's cancellation. Aided and abetted by M&M as EP's.

Yeah, RCC is a man out of time. He would be in heaven writing for Star Trek the Original Series. Woman dressed in short skirts that barely covered their behinds and wearing pointed cast-iron playtex bras. Their lines consisting of "Oh Mr Spock" and "Oh Captain I'm scared".

[esoap524]

see, that's something else they coulda done to tweak MM into something more believable. what if, instead of cramming D/V down our throats, vala was going out to dinner with ALL of them and going to get her patches then. and she's grabbed. and they need to rescue one of their own

It jsut seems that they're so obsessed with this 'pair up the girls' philosophy that the female characters really serve no purpose beyond being paired with a guy

I don't even have a problem with just her and Daniel going out...for one, he's pretty much been her champion and even though she puts forth some interest in him, I think it's more because it makes him crazy and that's entertainment for her. But I really do think that she's more flattered by his acceptance of her as a person.

At any rate, I don't have a problem with Daniel/Vala and dinner. It was all the subsequent nonsense that put me over the edge. It was that soclose...where this episode could have gone good or could have gone bad...and it went bad.

I would have liked to have seen less of Athena plotting and maybe more of Sg1 "plotting", so to speak. Why do they want Vala back, other than the obvious security risk? What emotional investment do they have? The scene between Mitchell and Daniel was very nice--more of that with Teal'c and Carter, and Landry. that way when she's made a member of the team, as seemed inevitable, we get more emotional pay off from the rest of the team, not just Daniel.

That's what irritated me--too many wasted minutes on "junk". If you're gonna have people standing around plotting and yakking, at least have it be people I actually care to hear plotting and yakking (i.e. Carter, Teal'c, Daniel and Mitchell).

I agree there's no need to pair off the girls, and I don't see that Daniel-Vala will ever become a couple, although she'll continue to mess with him (because it's fun and he's an easy target); but I really, really can't say enough how much I'd love a Carter/Vala episode.

In defense of the "pairings", I think Carter/Mitchell works. They seem very easy with each other and there's not a hint of romance, yet they have pleasant chemistry. I like seeing them together. Mitchell's a bit more serious around her and she's a bit more playful with him. It's kind of cute without being annoying cute.

[Crow T. Robot]

Just saw that Friday’s episode pulled slightly higher ratings with a 1.6

So far that’s really not proving the theory it was competition that sent Star Gate’s ratings down. It’s more implying apathy and disinterest more than tougher competition for the slide. Also not saying much with all the publicity over the recent cancellation the ratings are only up slightly too.

We will have to see if the ratings go up this week or not. I’m betting the ratings go down this week with new TV and the fact this week’s episode was... How do I put this politely?? A stinker.

<Inserts tongue in cheek> Should be interesting to see what type of ratings SGA’s “The Return” gets when RDA guest stars. That should prove one way or the other if it really IS us bitter, disillusioned Jack O’Neill fans who can’t accept change and are of course secretly conspiring to destroy SG-1 and get it cancelled for everyone else so they can’t enjoy their favorite show.

I am a Jack fan! I think! Therefore I change the channel!

[Skydiver]

reading the transcript i have a funny feeling that this whole episode itself was nothing more htan ex deus machina

Spoiler:

athena wanted the key to the caveus, whatever the hell it was, key to ancient treasure.

any takers on vala miraculously remmbering this table/mentioning it to daniel and it being the key to the DEM that'll make the ori go byebye and save the universe????

so, i'm starting to think taht this whole eps existed for nothing more than to put that little card into place to be drawn in about 8 episodes

[Crow T. Robot]

Plus, that was the episode when SG-1 got out-thought by Anubis, not because he did anything brilliant but because they suffered an attack of complete suck, a real death knell for SG-1 as the cunning underdog.

Good point.

It was also the season where Daniel went from discredited academic to an academic worthy of being discredited.

The whole Daniel goes down to South America to go get that healing device was the start of the slide for one of my favorite character. Sneaking in to another country without permission and removing an artifact from a historic site without permission is against every ethical and professional code of conduct of Daniel’s vocation and he did it without a peep of protest that it was both unethical and illegal.

Without a doubt could see him sucking it up and doing it under protest knowing the world at stake but the Daniel of seasons past sure would have had a few things to say about it too.

I think you’re correct when you say season 7 was when the shift started.

[Skydiver]

and s7 is when, for me, i started to enjoy the show less and less

again, for me, s6 was the last great season.