S10: Critique & Contemplation

[suse]

I hadn't really considered this angle before. It does make a lot of sense to me, more for season 10 than 9, I'd say.

I think season 9 was mostly the story of Mitchell getting SG-1 back together so he could live his dream of being on the team. But you make a good point that only allowing Daniel and Vala to have ties to the Ori arc meant that once SG-1 was back in action, Mitchell's main story arc seemed to be over (and Teal'c and Sam didn't fare too well either). Most of the Mitchell-centric stories seemed to have more to do with describing his backstory as opposed to building his relationship with the team or his ties with the Ori storyline.

I can't help but compared this to Sam's character in season 1 and 2. She started in a similar place as Mitchell, I think, with no real ties to the Goa'uld storyline in season 1, and her main arc in S1 seemed to be finding her place in the SG-1 team. But to the writers' credit, I think ITLOD helped connect Sam to the Goa'uld storyline and give the character other arcs to explore in S2 and beyond. I wish the writers could have done the same with Mitchell in S10, given him a storyline beyond the gung-ho soldier living his dream.

Agreed with all but the last sentence. By the time S10 rolled around I was so annoyed with the Mitchell character I was really happy to have him (and Grandma) shoved into the background as much as possible. And at the beginning of S9 I was quite happy to welcome the new character/actor into the fold, so I'm not what tptb want to assume all disgruntled fans to be - annoyed that RDA was no longer the star. I was quite happy to let him retire in peace, at least til the travesty of S9 appeared.

suse

[Skydiver]

i had no issue with mitchell being added. it was a gimme with rick leaving.

i DID have an issue with sam being shoved to the side to make the new guy the boss. and the incessant 'let us tell you how great he is' instead of simply showing us and letting us decide, got real old, real fast

it was just so ham fisted in how it was handled. very little grace, very little tact, just a lot of brash pushiness

[suse]

i had no issue with mitchell being added. it was a gimme with rick leaving.

i DID have an issue with sam being shoved to the side to make the new guy the boss. and the incessant 'let us tell you how great he is' instead of simply showing us and letting us decide, got real old, real fast

it was just so ham fisted in how it was handled. very little grace, very little tact, just a lot of brash pushiness

YUP

suse

[leiasky]

and the incessant 'let us tell you how great he is' instead of simply showing us and letting us decide, got real old, real fast

Yep. Yep. YEP.

Not that I don't agree with everything else you said, because I do, but the above particularly resonates. . .

[Skydiver]

With Jonas - and i know he is a very hot button issue - but with his intro

(bear in mind please, at the end of s5 they literally didn't know until just a couple/few weeks before they taped the episode that MS wasn't coming back. Jonas' intro and Daniel's departure had to be done in the same eps, because MS was negotiating his contract, they couldn't come to an agreement, and the final decision was very much made at the last moment. I was at Gatecon when it was announced and they had to scrap an eps that had already been written and was ready to be taped to toss together Meridian to accommodate the casting changes. so the flaw in introing the replacement in the same eps you write out the regular, it only happened that way because of the timing when the decision was made. They could have just as easily had it all happen off screen during the break)

beyond what i agree was the too often played card of 'i memorized dr jackson's notes', there really wasn't the incessant 'i was in the army in kelowna' 'i was first in my class' 'i was an honors student' 'i won an award in studies', etc.

The character wasn't pumped up and pushed forward as being the best on his planet. he was a refugee that found a place. and part of s6 was showing him learning his place on earth and building relationships.

Compare that to cam, whose very introduction was 'he's a hero, he's great, he did this, he earned that....' etc.

With jonas he was there and part of the team and part of s6 was simply he learning his place on earth, with cameron he was 'large and in charge and put front and center with much fanfare'

Now, it is fair to note, no matter how they did it, there were and still are some that never have and never will accept jonas. When spoilers were leaked that jonas was an orphan, people were upset because 'it's just another way you're copying daniel,' and it was fun to point out 'umm, other than sam, ALL the guys are essentially orphans cause we've never seen ANY of their parents, Daniel doesn't have the patent of orphanism'

Anyway, the morale of the story is, no matter how they intro a character, some will never accept them

[suse]

With Jonas - and i know he is a very hot button issue - but with his intro

(bear in mind please, at the end of s5 they literally didn't know until just a couple/few weeks before they taped the episode that MS wasn't coming back. Jonas' intro and Daniel's departure had to be done in the same eps, because MS was negotiating his contract, they couldn't come to an agreement, and the final decision was very much made at the last moment. I was at Gatecon when it was announced and they had to scrap an eps that had already been written and was ready to be taped to toss together Meridian to accommodate the casting changes. so the flaw in introing the replacement in the same eps you write out the regular, it only happened that way because of the timing when the decision was made. They could have just as easily had it all happen off screen during the break)

REALLY? Wow. Was not the impression I got from certain interviews - though I already took those with a grainboulder of salt anyway.

beyond what i agree was the too often played card of 'i memorized dr jackson's notes', there really wasn't the incessant 'i was in the army in kelowna' 'i was first in my class' 'i was an honors student' 'i won an award in studies', etc.

They didn't really mention it much (or his grandma) but he *was* one of the worlds top in smarts.

The character wasn't pumped up and pushed forward as being the best on his planet. he was a refugee that found a place. and part of s6 was showing him learning his place on earth and building relationships.

Compare that to cam, whose very introduction was 'he's a hero, he's great, he did this, he earned that....' etc.

With jonas he was there and part of the team and part of s6 was simply he learning his place on earth, with cameron he was 'large and in charge and put front and center with much fanfare'

Yep. And Mitchell screwed up way more on the team than Jonas ever did.

suse

[Skydiver]

IIRC, another episode was slated for that second to the last spot. I wanna say it was a version of Fragile Balance, but it's been a few years, so i certainly could have been wrong.

TPTB did not know going into s5 or so that MS wanted to go. They knew there were issues, but there was negotiations going on, and those fell through late in the taping of s5. I think there's an interview somewhere with Coop talking about how he wrote meridian quickly to accommodate the casting change. I can't find it thus far, hard to track down interviews from over 5 years ago, but i have a recollection of him talking about it and how he wrote it in a weekend or week or something.

I do know that MS departure was announced in sept 2001, about the 19th or so (the con was a week after 911, not the exact weekend of but the weekend after that)

they were taping the end of s5 (their taping ran feb/mar - june, then aug - sept/oct, and they had a habit of taping episode 22 of 22 first, then 21 of 22)

If anyone goes looking for it, just remember that many websites were rather polarized in their reporting, in other words, on some sites, things were sometimes taken out of context to prove the point they wanted them to prove

[Frostfox]

IIRC, another episode was slated for that second to the last spot. I wanna say it was a version of Fragile Balance, but it's been a few years, so i certainly could have been wrong.

TPTB did not know going into s5 or so that MS wanted to go. They knew there were issues, but there was negotiations going on, and those fell through late in the taping of s5. I think there's an interview somewhere with Coop talking about how he wrote meridian quickly to accommodate the casting change. I can't find it thus far, hard to track down interviews from over 5 years ago, but i have a recollection of him talking about it and how he wrote it in a weekend or week or something.

I do know that MS departure was announced in sept 2001, about the 19th or so (the con was a week after 911, not the exact weekend of but the weekend after that)

they were taping the end of s5 (their taping ran feb/mar - june, then aug - sept/oct, and they had a habit of taping episode 22 of 22 first, then 21 of 22)

[If anyone goes looking for it, just remember that many websites were rather polarized in their reporting, in other words, on some sites, things were sometimes taken out of context to prove the point they wanted them to prove

I think the episode they shelved was Lifeboat; certainly it was said by TPTB that they kept that episode on ice specifically for MS return, rather than re-writing it for another character/actor.

It also should be considered that if MS had seriously annoyed TPTB, he would not have been brought back for season seven onwards, actors have been blackballed for much less.

All this was over 8 years ago and hardly seems relevant now, certainly of little interest when considering critique of Season 10.

FF

[Crazedwraith]

It may not be directly relevant to season 10 but that doesn't mean its entirely uninteresting. And comparing the transition with that of mitchell's is relevant.

[Frostfox]

It may not be directly relevant to season 10 but that doesn't mean its entirely uninteresting. And comparing the transition with that of mitchell's is relevant.

True, but to quote Skydiver, 'things were sometimes taken out of context to prove the point they wanted them to prove ' applies to Gateworld and this thread as much as any other site. And some people still 'have issues' with MS regarding his actions, even though it was 8 years ago.

Fortunately for him and us, TPTB and his co-workers don't seem to have a problems with him.

FF

[Skydiver]

It also should be considered that if MS had seriously annoyed TPTB, he would not have been brought back for season seven onwards, actors have been blackballed for much less.

it was hank cohen's decision to bring daniel back.


that said, compare and contrast Jonas' main introduction in Redemption (meridian was so much a one off it would be akin to if we'd really seen mitchell in Lost City rather than having him edited in later)

while i know that there are lively sensitivities to the character, there still wasn't the 'my gramma said' 'best of this' 'best of that' etc that we got with mitchell.

JOnas was there. Yes, he was made a sympathetic character, but he wasn't over pimped and pumped up with all these special talents as we'd be told over and over and over how wonderful he was.

they did over play the 'daniel jackson's diaries' card (for a character that wasn't part of the show anymore, he was in or mentioned about 3/4 of the season, i think there were 14 of the 20 or 22 eps where he was either in the show - as himself or thor - or was mentioned) and, as to jonas, the 'i'm a fast learner' was a plot device. But he wasn't pushed as hard as cameron, pilot that saved the team, almost died, promised any job he wanted, recipient of the CMOH, special ops, pilot, sodan trained martial artist....etc, etc, etc.

cameron was oversold. He was pushed forth because there was - to me - too much 'let us tell you how wonderful he is' and far too little 'hey, we'll show you with his actions and you decide'

It colors your perception of the character, of the show and the whole thing.

Then, in the ultimate irony, the new bright and shiny 'star' of the show turns out to be a 'leading man' in name only because he has no plot arc (beyond 'golly gee whiz, i'm living my fantasy') and he had no connection, no reason to be there, no reason to be in the fight

His name may have been first in the credits, but, as stories go, he was down at the bottom of the list with sam and teal'c, whose characters were made ancillary to coop's preference of the Daniel and Vala Comedy Hour

[Frostfox]

it was hank cohen's decision to bring daniel back.

True, but he's back there today, filming for Universe. If they have a problem with the actor, they certainly keep using him a lot, it doesn't look like someone foisted on them from on high that they only use under protest.

Like when TPTB talk about Amanda, I've only ever heard fellow actors and co-workers have good things to say about Michael.
Again, as the fans who are AT haters have no logic to their malice, there are MS haters who need no reason other than their own personal issues to dislike an actor they do not know and who's life and career have no bearing on their own petty little worlds and petty little egos.

that said, compare and contrast Jonas' main introduction in Redemption (meridian was so much a one off it would be akin to if we'd really seen mitchell in Lost City rather than having him edited in later)

while i know that there are lively sensitivities to the character, there still wasn't the 'my gramma said' 'best of this' 'best of that' etc that we got with mitchell.

JOnas was there. Yes, he was made a sympathetic character, but he wasn't over pimped and pumped up with all these special talents as we'd be told over and over and over how wonderful he was.

they did over play the 'daniel jackson's diaries' card (for a character that wasn't part of the show anymore, he was in or mentioned about 3/4 of the season, i think there were 14 of the 20 or 22 eps where he was either in the show - as himself or thor - or was mentioned) and, as to jonas, the 'i'm a fast learner' was a plot device. But he wasn't pushed as hard as cameron, pilot that saved the team, almost died, promised any job he wanted, recipient of the CMOH, special ops, pilot, sodan trained martial artist....etc, etc, etc.

cameron was oversold. He was pushed forth because there was - to me - too much 'let us tell you how wonderful he is' and far too little 'hey, we'll show you with his actions and you decide'

It colors your perception of the character, of the show and the whole thing.

Then, in the ultimate irony, the new bright and shiny 'star' of the show turns out to be a 'leading man' in name only because he has no plot arc (beyond 'golly gee whiz, i'm living my fantasy') and he had no connection, no reason to be there, no reason to be in the fight

His name may have been first in the credits, but, as stories go, he was down at the bottom of the list with sam and teal'c, whose characters were made ancillary to coop's preference of the Daniel and Vala Comedy Hour

This I am in complete agreement over. I like Ben Browder and I wanted to like Mitchell but the character was poorly conceived and poorly written, in the end I found the character flat and dull and intrusive (particularly offended by him leading the team; that was Sam's job).

FF

[discodiva]

True, but he's back there today, filming for Universe. If they have a problem with the actor, they certainly keep using him a lot, it doesn't look like someone foisted on them from on high that they only use under protest.

Like when TPTB talk about Amanda, I've only ever heard fellow actors and co-workers have good things to say about Michael.
Again, as the fans who are AT haters have no logic to their malice, there are MS haters who need no reason other than their own personal issues to dislike an actor they do not know and who's life and career have no bearing on their own petty little worlds and petty little egos.



This I am in complete agreement over. I like Ben Browder and I wanted to like Mitchell but the character was poorly conceived and poorly written, in the end I found the character flat and dull and intrusive (particularly offended by him leading the team; that was Sam's job).

FF

Can't rep you but consider yourself heartily greened for all of these points with which I totally agree...


Deeds xx

[jckfan55]

This I am in complete agreement over. I like Ben Browder and I wanted to like Mitchell but the character was poorly conceived and poorly written, in the end I found the character flat and dull and intrusive (particularly offended by him leading the team; that was Sam's job).

FF

Yep. Prime example: Stronghold.
Teal'c is missing, probably being brainwashed, the Jaffa nation in disarray etc & that's pretty much the B story. (I remember when rescuing a team member was THE story.)

The A story is all about Mitchell's guilt trip about something that happened way before we knew him.
Then Sam is finally seen & said to have planned the rescue mission, but it becomes all about Mitchell running off to the ship w/out waiting for backup or even checking in with the *commander of the mission*--Sam. And that's supposed to be a good thing. Right.

[Ashizuri]

True, but he's back there today, filming for Universe. If they have a problem with the actor, they certainly keep using him a lot, it doesn't look like someone foisted on them from on high that they only use under protest.
FF

Or it could be because, like him personally or not, he's a HUGE part of the franchise and why it was so successful. I may not be the world's biggest MS fan, but I do recognize and respect everything he brought to the show/universe. I'm sure the PTB do as well. Not that I think they don't like him, just pointing out that there are very valid reasons to include him/bring him back regardless of any personal issues.