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S10: Critique & Contemplation
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Originally posted by Vladius View PostThere were plenty of Teal'c episodes in the earlier seasons. He is a male too, is he not? ( )
You didn't answer my question.
There were also no ways that you could have used brains to avoid those situations, other than just not signing up for the Stargate program in the first place.
She also fought when there was no other way. Emancipation. Evolution Pt 2. Jolinar's Memories. The Devil You Know. FOOTHOLD. Upgrades. The Curse. 2010. The Light (both Sam and O'Neill against each other). 2001. Nightwalkers. Prometheus. New Order Pt 2 (torture). Lockdown. Prometheus Unbound (Vala, not Sam.). The Road Not Taken.
Needed to to use brawn instrad of brains. And did.
susesigpicMourning Sanctuary.
Thanks for the good times!
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Originally posted by Vladius View PostI think it's a bit extreme to say it "destroyed the previous 8 years of canon" (11 if you count the movie being around for 3 years).
Preserving the narrative is important if you want ratings, which I think were declining during Season 8. It's also important for a cohesive story and for the development of more characters that you care about. Of course, you don't care about Cam so it obviously wasn't for you.
It was important to establish the Ori, Merlin, etc. really fast for the purposes of the story. There was a lot to do and not much time to do it. It would be difficult to have Sam away for five episodes and to keep it cohesive and interesting when she returned.
"Oh, hi guys. So what's this I hear about our new gigantic, galaxy wide unstoppable enemy? What? You say they're called Ori? Eh?"
As to your argument about setting up the Ori and not having time to incorporate Sam into the storyline if she remained the leader, I would argue that they didn't do a good job of incorporating her anyway. The only things she did in Season 9 and for most of Season 10 were to spout technobabble, entertain old boyfriends, and provide reassurance and comfort to Cam.
So, I would have preferred that the writers focus on establishing the new characters, while doing justice to the old ones, instead of devoting so much time to creating this "grand" Ori story arc. There were much more interesting villains that had already been established that could have been brought in that wouldn't have needed a huge amount of story time to re-introduce. In fact, I've always thought the Lucian Alliance could have been a much more satisfying and realistic enemy (before they became the comic relief) and they wouldn't have required a whole new mythology to be created to introduce them into the storyline.
In fact, the major problem I have with Season 9 and 10 is not Cam or Vala or Daniel having a personality transplant. It is the Ori and their whole entire story arc. I found them unbelievably boring and the whole Merlin/Black Knight thing to be incredibly cheesy and over the top.
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Originally posted by suse View PostSure did. Pointed out Sam also got thrown against wall when there was no other way.
She also fought when there was no other way. Emancipation. Evolution Pt 2. Jolinar's Memories. The Devil You Know. FOOTHOLD. Upgrades. The Curse. 2010. The Light (both Sam and O'Neill against each other). 2001. Nightwalkers. Prometheus. New Order Pt 2 (torture). Lockdown. Prometheus Unbound (Vala, not Sam.). The Road Not Taken.
Needed to to use brawn instrad of brains. And did.
suse
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Originally posted by Vladius View PostWhat if there's no missile to jerry rig and no sun to blow up?
I'm not making "sweeping generalizations." I'm simply taking patterns of behavior that apply in most places that are backed up by biology, and explaining how that means anything in the face of "hollywood sexism." (Not that I don't think Hollywood is extremely sexist, just not in the ways you're talking about.)
It's a fact that women feel more pain, and react differently to situations than men do, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. I'm not saying Sam isn't qualified or that she can't handle it, I'm just stating that you see patterns like that with men and women for good reasons.
But I'll tell you what... I'll believe that men biologically can endure and withstand more pain than women when a man pushes a ten-pound baby out of one of his orifices without the aid of drugs.
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Originally posted by Melora View PostAccording to the Nielsen ratings records that GW keeps, the ratings for Season 8 were the highest ratings the series had in its entire 10 year run. The ratings, in fact, grew considerably throughout the season and then started to plateau during Season 9. The ratings dropped considerably during Season 9 and continued to fall in Season 10. They never really recovered, with the exception of the 200th ep.
As to your argument about setting up the Ori and not having time to incorporate Sam into the storyline if she remained the leader, I would argue that they didn't do a good job of incorporating her anyway. The only things she did in Season 9 and for most of Season 10 were to spout technobabble, entertain old boyfriends, and provide reassurance and comfort to Cam.
So, I would have preferred that the writers focus on establishing the new characters, while doing justice to the old ones, instead of devoting so much time to creating this "grand" Ori story arc. There were much more interesting villains that had already been established that could have been brought in that wouldn't have needed a huge amount of story time to re-introduce. In fact, I've always thought the Lucian Alliance could have been a much more satisfying and realistic enemy (before they became the comic relief) and they wouldn't have required a whole new mythology to be created to introduce them into the storyline.
In fact, the major problem I have with Season 9 and 10 is not Cam or Vala or Daniel having a personality transplant. It is the Ori and their whole entire story arc. I found them unbelievably boring and the whole Merlin/Black Knight thing to be incredibly cheesy and over the top.
I thought the Lucian Alliance would get really boring really quickly. They use all the technology that we've seen for the entire run of the show. There's only so many times you can look at a Ha'tak. The episode where Cam infiltrated them was about as interesting as it would get. Which do you take more seriously?
An epic, large scale invasion of our galaxy that works on multiple fundamental levels including religion and pathogenic disease, or a criminal organization that we should barely take seriously if we just leave them to their business?
The heroes are only as good as their villains. I'm pretty sure most people liked the Ori, judging from what I've seen.
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Originally posted by Vladius View PostI think it's a bit extreme to say it "destroyed the previous 8 years of canon" (11 if you count the movie being around for 3 years).
Preserving the narrative is important if you want ratings, which I think were declining during Season 8. It's also important for a cohesive story and for the development of more characters that you care about. Of course, you don't care about Cam so it obviously wasn't for you.
It was important to establish the Ori, Merlin, etc. really fast for the purposes of the story. There was a lot to do and not much time to do it. It would be difficult to have Sam away for five episodes and to keep it cohesive and interesting when she returned.
"Oh, hi guys. So what's this I hear about our new gigantic, galaxy wide unstoppable enemy? What? You say they're called Ori? Eh?"
susesigpicMourning Sanctuary.
Thanks for the good times!
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Originally posted by Vladius View PostI agree that Sam could have easily been leader, but she just wasn't. I don't think it's really any fault of the writers for doing it that way.
/sarcasm
susesigpicMourning Sanctuary.
Thanks for the good times!
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Originally posted by Vladius View PostSo I was wrong about the ratings. That's interesting...
I thought the Lucian Alliance would get really boring really quickly. They use all the technology that we've seen for the entire run of the show. There's only so many times you can look at a Ha'tak. The episode where Cam infiltrated them was about as interesting as it would get. Which do you take more seriously?
An epic, large scale invasion of our galaxy that works on multiple fundamental levels including religion and pathogenic disease, or a criminal organization that we should barely take seriously if we just leave them to their business?
The heroes are only as good as their villains. I'm pretty sure most people liked the Ori, judging from what I've seen.
I thought the Ori were just a more boring and less flamboyant version of the Goa'uld - beings with more knowledge and technology who passed themselves off as gods to gain power. Except the Ori were an anonymous, faceless enemy which made them even more boring IMO.
I think it would have been far more interesting and original to examine the aftermath of the war that the team had been fighting for eight years. What happens when you destroy an enemy that has been dominating the galaxy for centuries? How does the SGC cope with the entire galaxy looking to them for guidance b/c they are the ones who liberated the galaxy? How do they deal with all of the competing interests in the galaxy, some of which do not like or appreciate them? It could have been such a rich, complex direction to take the show. They could have examined the Jaffa nation in more detail, the power vacuum in the galaxy, and the struggle for power.
Instead, they went with the tried and true formula that they established with the Goa'uld and Wraith. The Ori were simple, two-dimensional bad guys. They were not original and they didn't take SG-1 in a new creative direction. It was just a replay of the same good vs. evil fight that had already played out in the first eight seasons of the show.
And personally, I don't watch the show for the cool ships, the tech, and the big explosions. I would just as soon watch another Hatak as a big flying toilet bowl.Last edited by Melora; 24 April 2009, 06:48 PM.
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Originally posted by Vladius View PostSo I was wrong about the ratings. That's interesting...
I thought the Lucian Alliance would get really boring really quickly. They use all the technology that we've seen for the entire run of the show. There's only so many times you can look at a Ha'tak. The episode where Cam infiltrated them was about as interesting as it would get. Which do you take more seriously?
An epic, large scale invasion of our galaxy that works on multiple fundamental levels including religion and pathogenic disease, or a criminal organization that we should barely take seriously if we just leave them to their business?
The heroes are only as good as their villains. I'm pretty sure most people liked the Ori, judging from what I've seen.
Oh yes, Cam infiltrating the Lucien Alliance. And the Best!Line!Eva! "Damn you Cam Mitchell!"
If they hadn't been made a laughingstock they might have been interesting.
On the bolded part: Oh, I can agree with that assessment, especially with Mitchell as Lead Hero.
susesigpicMourning Sanctuary.
Thanks for the good times!
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Originally posted by Melora View PostI do think the Lucian Alliance wasn't used to its fullest potential. The writers decided to turn them into a joke when they could have been very interesting. If pirates, mobsters, and terrorists aren't interesting, then why are there so many movies and TV shows about them? If the writers had consistently presented them as a real and serious threat, they would have been a very worthy enemy for the team.
I thought the Ori were just a more boring and less flamboyant version of the Goa'uld - beings with more knowledge and technology who passed themselves off as gods to gain power. Except the Ori were an anonymous, faceless enemy which made them even more boring IMO.
I think it would have been far more interesting and original to examine the aftermath of the war that the team had been fighting for eight years. What happens when you destroy an enemy that has been dominating the galaxy for centuries? How does the SGC cope with the entire galaxy looking to them for guidance b/c they are the ones who liberated the galaxy? How do they deal with all of the competing interests in the galaxy, some of which do not like or appreciate them? It could have been such a rich, complex direction to take the show. They could have examined the Jaffa nation in more detail, the power vacuum in the galaxy, and the struggle for power.
Instead, they went with the tried and true formula that they established with the Goa'uld and Wraith. The Ori were simple, two-dimensional bad guys. They were not original and they didn't take SG-1 in a new creative direction. It was just a replay of the same good vs. evil fight that had already played out in the first eight seasons of the show.
And personally, I don't watch the show for the cool ships, the tech, and the big explosions. I would just as soon watch another Hatak as a big flying toilet bowl.
Wish I had your way with words.
susesigpicMourning Sanctuary.
Thanks for the good times!
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Originally posted by suse View PostAnd I'm pretty sure "most" people don't. I remember reading a con report on GW that when the room was asked about the Ori there was a very lackluster response. And the asker seemed surprised. We'll never know, though the ratings drop might give some indication...
Oh yes, Cam infiltrating the Lucien Alliance. And the Best!Line!Eva! "Damn you Cam Mitchell!"
If they hadn't been made a laughingstock they might have been interesting.
On the bolded part: Oh, I can agree with that assessment, especially with Mitchell as Lead Hero.
suse
I love that line. It's just so... mockable.
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Originally posted by KatG View PostThis is one of my main issues too. If they had brought in Mitchell as an experienced SG team leader, to replace a missing Sam, then remaining in charge, with Sam, once she returned, posted temporarily to SG-1 until the Ori threat was contained, I could have "bought" S9/S10. This would have allowed for some adjustments to be made, but could have ultimately led to more of a team feel, rather than a sense of no one on the team really knowing who was in charge or what they were supposed to be doing.
The frustrating thing here is that many of us said that there maybe some sexism involved, on societies part, the writers part, who the heck knows. But that is really a small part of the point most of us are trying to make yet it's the part most discussed. I think for most of us it's all the other stuff mentioned that really gets under our skin. Primarily that they put a completely inexperienced leader in charge of SG1. If it were Camilla Mitchell rather than Cameron Mitchell I would still feel the same way about the character.sigpic "We do get paid for this, right?"
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Originally posted by suse View PostThen who is responsible? The catering staff? The make-up artists? I know! The costumers!
/sarcasm
suse
Originally posted by KatG View PostThis is one of my main issues too. If they had brought in Mitchell as an experienced SG team leader, to replace a missing Sam, then remaining in charge, with Sam, once she returned, posted temporarily to SG-1 until the Ori threat was contained, I could have "bought" S9/S10. This would have allowed for some adjustments to be made, but could have ultimately led to more of a team feel, rather than a sense of no one on the team really knowing who was in charge or what they were supposed to be doing.Originally posted by CallistaAhhh! Ashizuri can see into the future!!
Originally posted by HPMomShe saw the candle light as many things.
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