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    Ok, thoughts on Evolution. I warned you.

    I'm not going to go back over all the shippy bits, or what's been said, though lots of it's in my slides. I think the overall theme of this episode is a comparison between the way the Goa'uld are trying to create a better soldier, and the way we (and our allies) do so. We have the genetic engineering and mind washing and training of the Goa'uld compared to the 'good old fashioned' way we do things. We have children to actually make new people and form friendships and relationships and mentor to pass on what we know and what we have learned.

    Most clearly, we see this in the grouping of Sam and Jacob and Teal'c and Bra'tac. But we also see it in Jack and Daniel, and Jack and his old friend whose name escapes me atm. Also in the more subtle relationship of Sam and Jack, where this is her first major mission without him. And of course, ultimately, our way proves superior.

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      Just dropping by to leave the link for the latest Aftershock...

      Tomorrow is Another Day

      TAG to WoO. Sam/Jack shippy.


      Mara,

      I do think you're right about the team's cohesiveness in some respects being tied to the bond between Sam and Jack - when everything is OK with them it works best and when something is out of kilter, the team is out of kilter.

      But then I tend to think that that's true of all the relationships in the team. When they pull away from each other for whatever reason, the rest of the team dynamic suffers. It's just that with Sam/Jack being so central in terms of storyline we get to see the effects more when they're not in synch but you can see it also with Jack/Daniel.

      I think the heart of it though - that they are much stronger united as a team is very true. I think one of the fascinating things though is that story of the four of them through the years; each of them was wonderful in isolation; Jack was an outstanding soldier, Teal'c an outstanding warrior, Daniel a genius in his field, Sam a genius in hers...yet all of them alone in many ways despite other relationships around them...and it is only in coming together as SG1 they truly find somewhere they belong.

      Avatar, the one with Teal'c in the virtual game, is one of my favourite episodes, mainly because it truly demonstrates that but from Teal'c's perspective; that deep, subconscious knowledge that only when SG1 is together, when they trust each other can they truly defeat the Goa'uld and win is very powerful.

      On the lunch invite and command commentary. I think Jack is sincere when he says 'nice command' but I think Sam is a little defensive - she does well but I think she's found the whole thing slightly unnerving being in 'command' of a mission where she's actually the least experienced person on the team and the whole ending where really it is Jacob/Selmak's and Bra'tac's experience that helps save them from the Kull warrior. So I think her reply of 'we're still alive' is a recognition from her it was a difficult mission and they got the best outcome they could and Jack's reply is a confirmation that he understands what she's saying.

      I just love that lunch invitation; it's just such a 'aw - they love each other moment'.
      sigpic
      Women of the Gate LJ Community.
      My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

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        Just finished watching "Quarantine".
        Spoiler:
        Loved how Sam said softly 'Ah' after Radek's pigeon story.
        Jack couldn't have said it better.

        Yeah, well, I am obsessed.
        Last edited by Egle01; 21 January 2008, 08:06 AM.
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          Hey ship family!!!

          Originally posted by mara-anni View Post
          Fantasy?! Fantasy?!

          And that hand touch did to happen. It just happened during a briefing about something else!! Remember that the hand touch was a direct result of the fishing and the fishing did still happen so I maintain there was a hand touch, we just didn't get to see it a second time. *pouts* *stamps foot*
          Oh Mara...that hand touch SO happened again. It did, it did! If it happened the first time and then they did the whole fishing thing did happen again the second time...the hand touch HAD to happen again. I am confusing myself But anywho...

          I know that that hand touch had to happen again, because if the timeline was 'close enough'...(boy do I really hate that.) then it's safe to say that everything that happened before happened again in almost the same exact way.

          So therefore, if they touched hands the first time as result of something that happened at the cabin...(shared feelings...that sort of thing) then it's safe to say it happened again(of course at another meeting)...right? Right. Thought so.

          I just hope not too long after that more than hand touching took place...like say a nice wedding...a nice, outside wedding(because one really doesn't know how long it was in between seasons 9 and 10).

          Spoiler:
          With Daniel looking good enough in a tux for Sam to take a picture and bring it with her to Atlantis...

          ...Just sayin'.

          Originally posted by mara-anni View Post
          Just LOOK at that hand touching! I ask, how can thay NOT be together...impossible!!!!
          True that, you can't touch your 2IC like that unless she is more than just your 2IC...so maybe they shared feelings and decided to wait until they could do something about them. Yeah...that sounds good.

          Originally posted by AstraPerAspera View Post
          EDIT 2: You know...I mean, I understand frustration...we've all been there. And the ocassional rant is fine...who understands better than the people here? But once the point's been made, let's not drive it into the ground, FCOL...this is supposed to be the "PRO-Sam/Jack Ship" thread, not the "Why the Hell don't TPTB write the show the way I want it?" thread. I'm sure there's room in the GW forum for one of those, if it doesn't already exist. May I suggest that some of this discussion move in that direction?
          So...I just read this and I had to go back and quote it...Susannah...you make me smile!

          Love you ship family!

          (((Ship Family)))

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              Originally posted by sg-1fanintn View Post
              Congratulations, Seahen, on 600 posts!!!
              Aww, thanks

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                You people talk to much when I am asleep and busy, way to much!!! and about an episode I so love!!! But not much I can add actually cause everything I wanted to say has been said so... nice discussion people, next time do it earlier or later or when I am not at work or busy

                okay kind of catch up time, not about Evolution though

                Originally posted by ses110 View Post
                I though we had enough of the positive and negative Ship talk argument we had for years. If this thread is just going to be about happy talk it's not worth it. I'm sick of having to defend myself for having negative thoughts. I'm also sick of all the OT BS this thread has. I guess the OT is ok though as like as there is no negative posts..If anyone wants to put up with anything TPTB throw at us and we all have to except it with a smile on our face that's not me. I'm out of here. Good luck.
                We still have both!!! I mean I have seen both recently. The fact is you should try to see others pov too, and if it has been discussed please don't start talking about it again after 2 days again, cause sorry but that can be annoying, especially if you say the same thing over and over again. I know how you feel and I can see your pov, doesn't have to agree with it though... but I think we need to move on...
                spoilers movies:
                Spoiler:
                Will Sam be shipped with Cam or not?? honestly we will not know until the movies are out. I mean continuum... Was there a moment between Cam and Sam...Yes, but it has been in season 10 too...And to me it was just friendship. I mean nothing more then good friendship. I mean they are close friends. I can understand you see it different and others do too but listen to the others and don't keep going over this, cause it is pointless... I mean repeating yourself over and over again is annoying.


                As for the OT, we've been over there and you aren't the only one who thinks there is a lot OT, but recently that has been going okay I though, but then I skim a lot, so what do I know lol... but for people who don't know it...

                OFF TOPIC: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=38653

                As for TPTB, I don't see them throwing things at us at all. I mean they give us subtle hints and sorry that is enough for me. But like I said to me, the team goes before the ship to me, I guess I am the only one here eh... if I wanted to watch romance I wouldn't watch scifi honestly...I would watch err... the bold and the beautiful or so
                I mean Scifi isn't about 2 people coming together and loving each other, that is just a nice extra...
                I mean if I look back at my history of what I watched, I never gotten anything close to what Sam and Jack gotten...

                and don't say you leave and then don't leave or anything, if you wanna leave just go honestly!!! I prefer you not leaving cause you are a part of the family but...I can understand it if you don't feel happy or okay with this thread anymore... just know you are always welcome here, but know not everyone agrees with what you say... that is life!

                yeah yeah I babble, hush you all

                Originally posted by Meriwyn View Post
                OMG!!!! Did you see what she said about "the General"!!! SQUEEEE!!

                She rocks.
                She sures rocks and she sees the ship Even if she doesn't like the ship or prefers it not, she knows it is out there

                Originally posted by atlantis_babe34 View Post
                Ok so SGA!!

                Spoiler:
                Anyone Notice any more Jack like tendencies *raises hand i did!*
                First Caliing Radak "Doc" when he got thrown against the Transporter wall, then the Pigeons *sigh* good episode, don't know why but i laughed for more of it lol
                Am I really the only one who thought that wasn't Jack like; I mean I have seen this thing said on a few threads and I keep saying it isn't... but now here too

                I mean this is Sam honestly, it is a part of her but a part she doesn't let out much...I mean she isn't the joking person, she is the more serious one with her science...
                But she has done it before with jack and stuff
                remember Proving ground, where she jokes with Jack and stuff
                Spoiler:

                and I thought the kind of rolling with her eyes was so her!!! honestly I was squeeing about that

                yeah I am an Amanda fangurl so what

                Originally posted by Egle01 View Post
                J
                Spoiler:
                ust finished watching "Quarantine".
                Loved how Sam said softly 'Ah' after Radek's pigeon story.
                Jack couldn't have said it better.


                Yeah, well, I am obsessed.
                spoilers please!!!

                and honestly that thing is so Sam, that is her eyeroll like I call it!

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                  Originally posted by mara-anni View Post
                  I wanted to say something else about Evolution. Just about the final scene with the Sam and Jack flirting

                  It really is a great scene. And I think that the fact that TPTB chose this, a clearly S/J moment as the final scene of is poignant. To me it says that all is finally well within the entire team.

                  The team is back together...Jack found Daniel and brought himself and him back home. Sam and T made it safely home from their mission. So physically they're fine and back together. BUt what about emotionally? Yes, but how do we know? Coz Jack's and Sam's relationship is OK. To me they are like the parents of the team in some ways and when they are floundering or not getting along the whole team suffers just as a family would. Look at S5, where Jack pulls away from Sam, the whole team suffers a sort of lessening of their own cohesion. When in S6 Jack seems to realise the futility of his efforts and that it might be harming the team instead of helping and comes back so to speak, the team is one again and they're all much happier. Then we get S8, where after the proposal, we again feel the tension concentrated between Sam and Jack and kinda spreading out to the rest of them, though in different way coz Jack is no longer in the field with them.

                  So when we have this little flirty scene that has them confirming to each other, yes we're ok, not only unhurt physically but that our friendship, coz we can't have anything more, is OK. And thus the whole team is OK, united, one.

                  I'm sure I didn't say this the way I'm thinking it

                  I do have one question for the shippers though. This is some of the dialogue from that scene:

                  So, nice command. (with a soft voice and little smirk)
                  Well we did make it back alive
                  There is that.

                  What do the shippers think of this?? I've been trying to work it out for ages, now I actually have people I can ask. To me Jack's "Nice command" comment seemed sincere and in fact deserved coz she did do a good job I thought. She however seems to go on the defensive with her "we did make it out alive" as though she feels she needs to defend her command or something. Did anyone else get that feeling? Then his comment kinda seems like he's accepting her excuse where I didn't think she needed one.

                  I mean it's wonderfully flirty and I didn't think he was being accusitory at all but I did feel some deffensiveness in her tone. Still the way he looks at her and the smile she gives through her eyelashes and then the lunch invitation. *sweet shippy sigh*

                  Just to weigh in with my one and a half cents...

                  I've always taken Jack's compliment to be sincere praise. It's the look on his face, for me, that sells it on that count. There's an earnestness there that backs up the words, IMHO. And I just took Sam's reply to be her self-deprecating way of dealing with his compliment...a tendency, I might suggest, that she learned from Jack himself, although I don't think of her as ever being one who was ever out there blowing her own horn, in spite of her many brilliant accomplishments. In fact, I wonder if she wasn't thrown a little bit by his simple and straight-forward remark...cuz you'd usually expect Jack to make some quip at this point...and since he doesn't make it she feels she has to. Jack's rejoinder helps move them beyond what perhaps was beginning to be an awkward moment of too much feeling for both of them and they fall into the easy flirting that they do oh so well.
                  sigpic

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                    Originally posted by Chocolatequeen View Post
                    So... you're telling me Jack's "gun" (thanks LJEvans) is called a Minimi?

                    *SPLASH!!!*

                    (Say Minimi as two words rather than letters... you'll get it.)
                    ROFLM*Guttery*AO!!!

                    I was already reading that as mini-me, and you had to go there... Man, I'm so deep in the Gutter, I'll never get out--not that I'm complaining, mind you, but what a way to start the day!
                    Love and hot fudge,
                    Bren Ren
                    ~
                    My stories!
                    ~

                    sigpic

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                      Originally posted by AstraPerAspera View Post
                      Back a second to Mara's observations about Jack's fidelity and failure to follow the Kirk-syndrome of hunky leading men...

                      ...this is absolutely true...which, IMHO, makes the end of SGA S3's The Return a very telling clue. Having just been rescued from the Replicators by Shepherd and his team, Weir and Jack are having a discussion and she asks what's next. Jack says that he's going to go home and have a hot shower, a hot toddy and and hot...

                      At which point Elizabeth cuts him off and points out that she was asking a little more selfishly about what was going to happen with Atlantis and with her and her people.

                      We can only speculate what that third "hot" thing was that Jack was looking forward to...but since he's not the type to randomly pick up women, we can only assume that there's only one person he would even consider in that context...especially considering that he just told Weir that next time she really should bring Carter. So I'm reading between the lines here and assuming, based on this evidence, that he was heading home to Sam.

                      Kinda makes me smile....
                      Puts a Big Honkin' Smile on my face!

                      I LOVE this Ship!
                      Love and hot fudge,
                      Bren Ren
                      ~
                      My stories!
                      ~

                      sigpic

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                        This is still Stargate-related but isn't connected to Sam/Jack

                        OT:

                        Spoiler:
                        I found this music vid on YouTube and I love it! I couldn't figure where to put it but I figured you'd all appreciate seeing it:

                        http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5HmdwtLxc0

                        THE TARDIS DATA CORE - Encyclopaedia and reference site covering DOCTOR WHO, K-9 AND COMPANY, TORCHWOOD,THE SARAH JANE ADVENTURES,
                        K-9, CLASS and much more...

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                          Hey Ship Family,

                          How's everyone today?

                          I loved reading the ep discussion you guys had last night, I don't have anything to add cause its all been said already but it was fun to read

                          Julia(samcarterrules)
                          sigpic
                          Thanks to Ambermoon for the wonderful Avatar Sig by: Me

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                            Yep, nice vid, but, um
                            Spoiler:

                            think there's someone missing! This one makes up for it:

                            http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ovScOw...eature=related

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Patriot_Jackie View Post
                              Spoiler:

                              Well, you certainly have an odd way of showing it. The purpose of this thread is to be pro - that is positive - Sam/Jack, not the negative aspects of what we think should or should not have happened. Focusing on the positive, and in all aspects of life, tends to leave you happier, btw.

                              And ya' know, I'd PM this, except that the comments have been public and brought on a negative mood in what is supposed to be a safe haven of happy shipping for everyone. I honestly don't understand the need or even desire to bring everyone else's moods down. I mean hey, maybe that wasn't your intention (though your posts seem to have a sarcastic 'reality check' feel to them), and you were far from being alone, including those *raises hand* that responded.

                              Just loosen up a little, eh? At least in this thread. 'Cuz we're all here to be hopless romantics and giggle and squee collectively about a couple of really awesome characters and the lovely relationship they have - or should have - together. No one here's gonna bite until the the ship starts getting threatened, and go figure: this is a pro-all-about-the-ship thread.

                              I'll apologize, as well, for rousing any spirits. - Though my offer still stands for Silkie.
                              This has been hashed out through the years
                              Spoiler:
                              , but the purpose of this Thread is pro Sam and Jack ship. Pro in the sense that we believe there is such a thing, both when it was UST and now many believe RST. As far as I know it has never been "pro" in the meaning that an ardent shipper cannot have negative thoughts that TPTB have or will screw things up and so come here to vent. In other words, pro Sam and Jack, not pro as in positive always thoughts. I don't know when anybody declared it to be that. Possibly a post by a monitor may have sounded like that, but I think she later corrected it.

                              Naturally, it gets irritating and a downer to have too much worrying(another word for negativity) done here. I can see that, and, anyone is in their rights to say "enough of that for a while". As you are doing, and that's fine. But let's not take away anyone's rights
                              to come here and tell their latest worry about the status of our favorite ship. Where else could they go? I can assure you that when Pete was introduced this was not a pro meaning positive- only thread. So mainly, we are happy, but reserve the right to show some unhappiness from time to time.
                              Last edited by Gatetrixer; 20 January 2008, 11:47 AM.

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                                Originally posted by Gatetrixer View Post
                                This has been hashed out through the years ,
                                Spoiler:
                                but the purpose of this Thread is pro Sam and Jack ship. Pro in the sense that we believe there is such a thing, both when it was UST and now many believe RST. As far as I know it has never been "pro" in the meaning that an ardent shipper cannot have negative thoughts that TPTB have or will screw things up and so come here to vent. In other words, pro Sam and Jack, not pro as in positive always thoughts. I don't know when anybody declared it to be that. Possibly a post by a monitor may have sounded like that, but I think she later corrected it.

                                Naturally, it gets irritating and a downer to have too much worrying(another word for negativity) done here. I can see that, and, anyone is in their rights to say "enough of that for a while". As you are doing, and that's fine. But let's not take away anyone's rights
                                to come here and tell their latest worry about the status of our favorite ship. Where else could they go? I can assure you that when Pete was introduced this was not a pro meaning positive- only thread. So mainly, we are happy, but reserve the right to show some unhappiness from time to time.
                                I agree, but you said it much better than I could have.

                                We all know Silkie is only stirring things up, we should just ignore him. But, all the other shippers who might feel not so positive about our favourite ship, well, it's their thread too.

                                Just mho on things.
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