Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[majorsal]

Carter: So…you seeing anyone?
Keller: What?
Carter: Around the base, you seeing anyone?
Keller: I dunno…I had a moment with – with this…guy. He’s not exactly easy to read so…I guess the short answer is “no”. You?
Carter: Well, I’m the boss, so I can’t really…
Keller: Right Anyone back home?
Carter: Uhm…
Keller: Un-huh, I thought so. Spill.
Carter: Well, it’s complicated.
Keller: Show me a relationship that isn’t.
Carter: He’s in Washington…I’m here.
Keller: Ouch. Long distance relationship.
Carter: He’s going to retire soon, so maybe -
Keller: Really! Retire? So…an older man, huh?
Carter: Not that much older.
Keller: Washington, older man…is he like a Senator or something? Someone famous? Would I know him?
Carter: Probably not.

The arguement would be that she didn't say 'married' -there is an implied future deepening of the relationship. I like to interpret it according to my mental pre-set: *so married and avoiding the conversation*

Carter: Well, it’s complicated.
**hear: married a couple of years, deployment for over a year across the galaxy is not exactly simple**

Carter: He’s in Washington…I’m here.
**repeat of above**

Carter: He’s going to retire soon, so maybe -
**maybe he'll move to Atlantis to be with his wife???**

there really isn't any evidence that they're *not* married, so weeee!

[Pol]

Some good info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_(United_States)

Some general (um, pun intended) facts:

A four-star general must retire after 40 years of service unless he or she is reappointed to serve longer.[9] Otherwise all general officers must retire the month after their 64th birthday.[10] However, the Secretary of Defense can defer a four-star officer's retirement until the officer's 66th birthday[10] and the President can defer it until the officer's 68th birthday.

General officers typically retire well in advance of the statutory age and service limits, so as not to impede the career paths of more junior officers. Since only a limited number of four-star slots are available to each service, typically one officer must leave office before another can be promoted.[11] Maintaining a four-star rank is a game of musical chairs; once an officer vacates a position bearing that rank, he or she has no more than 60 days to be appointed or reappointed to a position of equal or greater importance before he or she must involuntarily retire.

Officers retire on the first day of the month, so once a retirement month has been selected, the relief and retirement ceremonies are scheduled by counting backwards from that date by the number of days of accumulated leave remaining to the retiring officer. During this period, termed transition leave or terminal leave, the officer is considered to be awaiting retirement but still on active duty.

And other info that I know...

AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION (AFI) 36-2110, Assignments, and AFI 36-3203, Service Retirements have the gory details, but here are the bits that pertain to our duo:

Applications for retirement can be submitted no earlier than 12 months before the retirement effective date and no later than 120 days plus the number of days terminal leave and permissive temporary duty (PTDY) requested.

If you desire to apply with less than the required 120-day notification period, a waiver request must accompany the retirement request that includes full justification and the commander's recommendation...

...Commanders have the authority to disapprove PTDY and/or terminal leave if it interferes with the military
mission...

...Processing time for all retirement application is 4 to 6 weeks. Processing time starts after your commander has coordinated on the retirement application.

So, you know...the whole 'cabin, retirement as a fait accompli is...fiction. But really? Who cares? It's Jack and Sam, and we love them.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i always thought if Jack retired, the president or Landry would offer him a consultant job at the SGC. i mean there were moments in Season 9 and 10 where the experience of Jack O'Neill would be needed.

[SaraBahama]

So, you know...the whole 'cabin, retirement as a fait accompli is...fiction. But really? Who cares? It's Jack and Sam, and we love them.

(of course, you know I CAN'T resist a little teasing here)

*hangs head*

You know that's 2 plot bunnies in one day that you've killed for me, right? ;D
*puts barbed wire and guard dogs around bunny hutch*

But as I said before...this is WHY I ask you...

...and on the bolded:
(It's comforting that somebody cuts us a little slack!!)

[Ikorni]

So, you know...the whole 'cabin, retirement as a fait accompli is...fiction. But really? Who cares? It's Jack and Sam, and we love them.[/COLOR]

How true that is.

[Pol]

(of course, you know I CAN'T resist a little teasing here)

*hangs head*

You know that's 2 plot bunnies in one day that you've killed for me, right? ;D
*puts barbed wire and guard dogs around bunny hutch*

But as I said before...this is WHY I ask you...

...and on the bolded:
(It's comforting that somebody cuts us a little slack!!)

Snort. My new secret Indian name: Plot Bunny Killer.

Sorry, pal.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

do you guys think jack is a Chicago Blackhawks fan or a Minnesota Wild hockey fan cause apparently the blackhawks beat the wild 5-3 tonight.

[AmberLM]

Spoiler:

I think that they got into a discussion to distract themselves from their perilous situation -Sam was leading, trying to make small talk, and the question she asked Keller got returned, and she started talking about it and opening up just a little, but she realized that it was a little too close to home and it quickly became uncomfortable...to 'familiar' for a leader with the staff (think of it like an office -the office manager would likely not be talking about her love life with an employee: only more intense, because a command structure is involved).

Keller may not be super familiar with Jack, but he is head of Homeworld Security, and I think if the name came up, she would be able to place a face with the name.

I also believe they were married at this point, and while I like this cut scene on one hand, I don't appreciate the implication that they are still waiting around for things to resolve -I prefer to live in my own uncomplicated world that says that they're married and the content of her words was not significant because she is trying to back peddle from the conversation she has gotten into with Keller.

There's a nice fanfic where Keller sees a picture of Jack (in Sam's room or office) and asks her if that is 'the guy in Washington', and Sam flips the photo facedown with a little embarrassment for being found out. I can't remember the title or the author, but it was very sweet and it rang true for me. hedwig -you remember one like this??



I always think of them when I hear this song.

Of course, by the time Jack would ask her to stay, I don't think he would have to make a very big argument- LOL.



Yeah...that particular fic is giving me SO much trouble. I mean...how do you even begin that conversation and keep it realistic??!

I always imagined that prior to the trip to the cabin in 'Threads', Jack submitted his resignation letter to Hammond, but the President refused, citing his invaluable experience (Presidents are allowed to decline a resignation if they feel the general is too important to a program to let him/her go). I see the administration offering the change of station to Sam to remove her from Jack's chain of command, freeing them up to really begin this relationship.

Hey, military types -if Jack submitted a resignation letter before the fishing trip, and didn't hear about the President's refusal until returning to civilization, would that be enough in his mind or in procedure for him to start things with Sam during that trip??? Or is there a process of confirmation he would have to wait for??



If she had been introduced as more threatened by Sam and less professional in her bearing, I think we would have found her more annoying. I think the level-headedness we see when she tells Jack that they are over makes her appealing: she's confident and there is a strength of character present that makes us like her. She doesn't whine. She doesn't scheme. She just tells him that his heart is bent elsewhere and he shouldn't let that slip away. That takes a stand-up woman to take it that well.

If we had seen more of her and she had appeared needy or catty, we would have disliked her. I prefer the image that I am left with: one classy lady.

spoiler for space
EDIT: I think the reverse question is fair -what if an actor like Ben Browder or David James Elliott had played Pete, they had never had him stalk her, and he had acted like Kerry did when he noticed that *something* between S/J. I think we would have respected him, as well. Fair enough?

I totally agree! We wouldn't have liked him getting in the way but he would have been good for Sam. Plus, he would have actually "been a threat to O'Neill" (to quote RDA) which may have led to much more angst and possibly maybe they would have even shown Jack and Pete interacting a bit more?

Also, interestingly, I do wonder if Sam was Pete's rebound relationship after his divorce. I mean, I know Jack's a divorcee too but Pete was recently divorced and I wonder if his desperation to marry Sam (he was clearly trying hard to not let it fail if he knew it wouldn't work but bought a house without discussing it - who does that anyway!?!) after only a year was partly down to him wanting a second chance to "fix" it? As Kerry said, just a thought!

i always thought if Jack retired, the president or Landry would offer him a consultant job at the SGC. i mean there were moments in Season 9 and 10 where the experience of Jack O'Neill would be needed.

Still doesn't remove the regs even if he's non-military I don't think *waves at Pol* you seem to be good at there's stuff, is that correct? The only way that could work is if they got married whilst he was retired/she was at Area 51 because I believe there's an exemption for married personnel serving together.

How true that is.

Yep! Although it would be AU anyway since Jack isn't retired. Change of station orders for a Lt Colonel could be processed much faster than that though, right? Besides we don't know how long after Threads the cabin thing was.

[Ikorni]

I totally agree! We wouldn't have liked him getting in the way but he would have been good for Sam. Plus, he would have actually "been a threat to O'Neill" (to quote RDA) which may have led to much more angst and possibly maybe they would have even shown Jack and Pete interacting a bit more?

Also, interestingly, I do wonder if Sam was Pete's rebound relationship after his divorce. I mean, I know Jack's a divorcee too but Pete was recently divorced and I wonder if his desperation to marry Sam (he was clearly trying hard to not let it fail if he knew it wouldn't work but bought a house without discussing it - who does that anyway!?!) after only a year was partly down to him wanting a second chance to "fix" it? As Kerry said, just a thought!

I guess that's a thought, but I usually don't go imagining what Pete's doing or what he's doing. He's just someone I ain't interested in (or care) enough to guess.

[brendini]

My thoughts on Kerry vs. Pete:
I think Kerry had the advantage in that she was on base, so she probably heard little bits of scuttlebutt regarding Jack and Sam (and SG-1). I think she probably took what she had heard, and added in her observations to make a decision.
The question is, would Pete have done the same thing? I'm not sure he would have. I don't hate Pete, but I really don't care for him either. He was fighting a losing battle from the start, I think. I think Sam was vulnerable when she agreed to go out with Pete, and then maybe it felt good to have a life outside of work. I'm not saying that she didn't care about Pete, but he gave her the opportunity to have a somewhat normal life.
However, I have to say, I wanted to smack her when Pete stormed off in the morning because she wouldn't tell him about her job (can you say "classified"?), and that wasn't a huge red flag.
I think that Pete was less confident (probably was a rebound relationship for him) than Kerry, and that makes a huge difference in their interactions with our favorite couples.

[iiradned]

Spoilered for length.

Spoiler:

Some good info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_(United_States)

Some general (um, pun intended) facts:

A four-star general must retire after 40 years of service unless he or she is reappointed to serve longer.[9] Otherwise all general officers must retire the month after their 64th birthday.[10] However, the Secretary of Defense can defer a four-star officer's retirement until the officer's 66th birthday[10] and the President can defer it until the officer's 68th birthday.

General officers typically retire well in advance of the statutory age and service limits, so as not to impede the career paths of more junior officers. Since only a limited number of four-star slots are available to each service, typically one officer must leave office before another can be promoted.[11] Maintaining a four-star rank is a game of musical chairs; once an officer vacates a position bearing that rank, he or she has no more than 60 days to be appointed or reappointed to a position of equal or greater importance before he or she must involuntarily retire.

Officers retire on the first day of the month, so once a retirement month has been selected, the relief and retirement ceremonies are scheduled by counting backwards from that date by the number of days of accumulated leave remaining to the retiring officer. During this period, termed transition leave or terminal leave, the officer is considered to be awaiting retirement but still on active duty.

And other info that I know...

AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION (AFI) 36-2110, Assignments, and AFI 36-3203, Service Retirements have the gory details, but here are the bits that pertain to our duo:

Applications for retirement can be submitted no earlier than 12 months before the retirement effective date and no later than 120 days plus the number of days terminal leave and permissive temporary duty (PTDY) requested.

If you desire to apply with less than the required 120-day notification period, a waiver request must accompany the retirement request that includes full justification and the commander's recommendation...

...Commanders have the authority to disapprove PTDY and/or terminal leave if it interferes with the military
mission...

...Processing time for all retirement application is 4 to 6 weeks. Processing time starts after your commander has coordinated on the retirement application.

So, you know...the whole 'cabin, retirement as a fait accompli is...fiction. But really? Who cares? It's Jack and Sam, and we love them.

Also, 3 and 4 star ranks are temporary. Meaning they come with the command to which they are appointed. When that appointment is up, unless appointed to a slot with equal or greater rank they will revert to a lower rank and retire at that lower rank. To retire at their highest rank the Secretary of Defense must certify that the general performed satisfactorily. (There was one recent 4 star Army general who was retired as a 3 star due to the very high spending he incurred while in office.)

Regarding a Top Gun remake with RDA and AT, I'd watch that. The only problem I see would not being allowed to post a certain vid clip or lnks to said vid clip or GIFs made from the vid clip.

[iiradned]

Happy Birthday!!!

to

Padme18 and TrueRomantic

[fems]

[AmberLM]

My thoughts on Kerry vs. Pete:
I think Kerry had the advantage in that she was on base, so she probably heard little bits of scuttlebutt regarding Jack and Sam (and SG-1). I think she probably took what she had heard, and added in her observations to make a decision.
The question is, would Pete have done the same thing? I'm not sure he would have. I don't hate Pete, but I really don't care for him either. He was fighting a losing battle from the start, I think. I think Sam was vulnerable when she agreed to go out with Pete, and then maybe it felt good to have a life outside of work. I'm not saying that she didn't care about Pete, but he gave her the opportunity to have a somewhat normal life.
However, I have to say, I wanted to smack her when Pete stormed off in the morning because she wouldn't tell him about her job (can you say "classified"?), and that wasn't a huge red flag.
I think that Pete was less confident (probably was a rebound relationship for him) than Kerry, and that makes a huge difference in their interactions with our favorite couples.

Indeed. I always thought it was a bit unfair that TPtB didn't mind Kerry being involved with Jack's work but we never got to see Pete interact with the team. Meh, I'm just moaning because I wanted to see Jack squirm (does that make me mean? Lol). I wanted to smack *Jack* when he started doing the whole "deer in headlights stupid" act when Sam caught him with Kerry:
"Carter...wh...I don't-"
"I'm sorry to bother you with this, Sir..."
I also love the fact that she apologised to him for "bothering him" with the fact that she wanted to ditch Pete and spend the rest of her life with him lol, that's so Sam!

[Amara D'Angeli]

You raise a very interesting point Amara.

If we like Kerry even though she also was in the way of S/J, and think her character spoke to the type of man Jack was. Are we saying that, whether Pete turned out to be a jerk or just a poor guy that fell in love with an amazing woman and basically did everything he could do to keep her; are we saying that that somehow makes Sam less of a woman or less of the woman we thought she was?

I don't think it made her less of a woman. I think she was dealing with some emotional fallout after the events of Grace. I think that fallout made her overlook things she wouldn't usually have overlooked. And the writers turned her into doormat-Sam through that whole situation. I have no problem with the speed at which she jumped into that relationship but there were some major red flags she just completely ignored and that didn't feel like the Sam we'd gotten to know at all. Part of me wants to chalk it up to the fact that we'd never seen her in a relationship before, but overall I find her actions as part of that relationship incongruous to the character we'd been introduced to in various situatons over the course of six previous seasons.

EDIT: I think the reverse question is fair -what if an actor like Ben Browder or David James Elliott had played Pete, they had never had him stalk her, and he had acted like Kerry did when he noticed that *something* between S/J. I think we would have respected him, as well. Fair enough?

Aside from the usual gripes about Sam not being with Jack, I'd have adored it if they'd given her a better match for a while. I might have even been able to get on board and just enjoyed the "what if" nature of Jack and Sam. I found the actor unattractive (of course, that's personal preference), and the character woobie-fied, and mostly a jackass in sheep's clothing.

Indeed. I always thought it was a bit unfair that TPtB didn't mind Kerry being involved with Jack's work but we never got to see Pete interact with the team. Meh, I'm just moaning because I wanted to see Jack squirm (does that make me mean? Lol). I wanted to smack *Jack* when he started doing the whole "deer in headlights stupid" act when Sam caught him with Kerry:
"Carter...wh...I don't-"
"I'm sorry to bother you with this, Sir..."
I also love the fact that she apologised to him for "bothering him" with the fact that she wanted to ditch Pete and spend the rest of her life with him lol, that's so Sam!

Funny you mention watching Jack squirm. There's a fic that handles this pretty well. Jack gets a girlfriend (not Kerry) and there's some squirmage involved (followed closely by some major Sam whump). I'm sure it's been linked here before, but it's A Second Chance by Sally Reeve.