Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[iiradned]

I too am not enamored of fics where Sam gets together with someone else, time passes (usually years) and later gets together with Jack or doesn't get together with Jack at all even though their feelings for each other were fully acknowledged. I will slog through such fics in the hopes of it getting better before the end.

Such fics make me break out my palette cleansers just so I can sleep at night.

And while browsing YouTube's recommended listings from the vid recs recently posted I came across this.

Something beautiful

[Devilish Me]

I remembered which episode I saw that in. It was Season 7, Fallout, when Jonas demanded that the goa'uld let him talk to the real Kiana, and then the "real" Kiana supposedly talked to them (and I was incorrect about the "newly blended" bit, since Kiana and the Goa'uld had been together for quite some time). That was when Sam cautioned him about whether it was really Kiana or the Goa'uld.

You genuious you! I was trying to remember but failed... Luckily we have you

Indeed. Amanda's husband's name is Alan Kovacs.


Oh, and . . .

Spoiler:

Jolinar!!!!

I'm just sayin'!

Oh, Jolinar! I find I love episodes that involve her! In the Line of Duty and Jolinar's Memories/The Devil You Know are some of my favorites! They also provide some lovely shippy moments!

I agree too.

Spoiler:

When Jack is almost walking out the door, just after Sam yells "Jack! No, you can't leave me etc..." she instantly reverts to Jolinar, saying, "What will it take?" I was 15 the first time I saw that eppy and I knew THEN that it was Jolinar, trying to use what effect she thought Sam had on Jack to convince him.

Which makes me wonder: if that is the case and Jolinar was drawing on Sam's feelings at that point, does that mean that she had some more feelings for her colonel than she should? And was she accustomed to referring to him as "Jack" in her head?

*sits back from computer and wonders where that came from*

*giggles and huggles team J*

*Subtly ignores Seahen's comment, but huggs her nontheless *

As for Sam's feelings I think that's the reason I don't believe that it was Sam, because she uses Jack, and I think that's why Jack doesn't believe it's Sam. Jolinar might be tapping into her subconscious or something, but I think that it's more that she's not familiar with the right and wrong way to address her superior officer. Just like when she lightly punched him on the shoulder in the briefing room.

I think so.

In fact, I've been watching season 8 recently, and was wondering why Fifth didn't take the form of Jack, since that's who Sam has deeper, more mature feelings for than Pete. But Fifth chooses Pete to impersonate. I've finally concluded that it's because 1) Fifth figures that Sam, being in a relationship with Pete, would believe it quicker (boring reason) and 2) Sam's feelings for Jack are so deep and convoluted and complicated that Fifth, who is essentially a robot, couldn't comprehend them. So, he went for impersonating the obvious choice, the easily understandable choice, because the alternative was too complex and mature for his childlike mind to figure out.

And then he set his stage on a farm. In the country. There's no evidence that Pete likes the countryside, but ample evidence that Jack does. Hmmmm.

So that begs the question. Would Sam have been more tempted (before the reveal) by Jack in that farmhouse? Would she have "bought it" more quickly?

I agree with option no2!!!

I don't think she would've bought it if it was Jack either, because at that time she had no hope for the two of them being together, so her logical brain wouldn't believe it as much as it didn't when it was Pete.

[Cagranosalis]

Oh lordy this is going to be one mammoth Multiquote... *rolls up sleeves*


Get yourself a coffee, folks.

*stumbles into thread*

*sees her vid* Thanks hon!!!

*drops a fic rec*

Gorgeous fic, thank you.


Videos (since I can't remember who asked)

UhSir was compiling a list of all video makers and where their works are. I'm not posting this from from my home laptop so I can't access the bookmark (perhaps someone else has it? ) but there's a YT playlist of hers here: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...0195A25DFF2487

And from there you can branch off and find some other video makers and explore their works too.

But if you want a couple I have saved in my favourites (that haven't already been recced)

and

And this one's mine (ignoring the fact I hadn't a scooby about aspect ratios back then. )

Ok.

I came with a cute dumb idea (yes I said it)

You know how we do those lists where everyone adds a bit till we get to the end? Well how about we do a fic that way.

Someone gives a prompt and we each add a paragraph as we go along, that is if you want to play. We'd have to decide that say the 10th person would write the ending paragraph.

I know, I said it was dumb didn't I.

I thought it was kinda cute though since it would be really interesting to see what we came up with.

Oh well.

Hey Shippers!!!!!!

Cags would you guys please do the organizing. **bats eyelids**

I got the idea but really don't know the best way to go about it. Consider this the 'handing off' so to speak and hey, I'm looking forward to see how it turns out.

Thanks

Pht, me and my big mouth!

Yes, sure I will put something together. Anyone else in this community fic project. So far I have:

Cags
Aka
Majorsal
LtCol John Sheppard
Trinity
Shipperwriter


The more the merrier and you don't have to make massive contributions or, indeed, be a spectacular writer (part of the point it to engage people who don't normally write to have some input).

Apparently, my plot bunnies were jealous of all the cute fic that's been flying around here lately because they woke me up early this morning and would not let me go back to sleep!

This is the result:

Stargazing with Carter

Now go away plot bunnies . . . GO AWAY. I have homework to do today.

Oh I am so happy to take the blame (well, kind of) for that. Very sweet.

I'm alll for writing a fic with you guys (or at least something resembling a fic *giggles* I just read what Cags posted on the XF's and been ing ever since.

Thank you. it makes me giggle to read it, but partly because of the memory of the fun we had doing it. When we did the first version (the unedited) it was a lot... uhm, let's just say this is a very cleaned up version of it

Agreed! She was a noted and probably published doctor in Theoretical Astrophysics before she met Jack. So she decided to keep Cater professionally. But Cater-O'neill has a nice ring to it

btw... Isn't "Tapping" Amanda's maiden name... not her husband's? Perhaps she also had some influence on the decision for Dr. Carter to not take O'neill's name... (just an observation)

Also, the story writers probably didn't want to give it away early on. The fact that AU Sam and AU Jack are married isn't revealed right away!

Regarding the bolded, yes, I think that's the real reason. But it's true that people who have become well known in their field tend to keep their maiden names professionally - unless they are in a well publicised relationship and marrying someone equally well known. I think it is slightly different for actors though, since they have to register their names as being theirs and unique to avoid professional confusion with identically named actors.
I have to admit I never really questioned why AU Sam form POV was Dr Carter not Dr O'Neill or Dr Carter-O'Neill. And, actually, she could very well have been so in her reality but, because they would have automatically called her "Carter" when she turned up - and given that she was still going through the shock of losing her husband and her whole world - it might not have been her first thought to correct them.... then after that, a bit awkward to do so what with there being another Jack and another her who were not romantically linked.

... I now have the strong feeling to yell: IT WAS JOLINAR!!!!*

*In the line of duty... when Jolinar yells:Jack! Please!

it was replicarter, pretending to be sam pretending to be jolinar pretending to be sam!!

*throws rotten maggoty broccoli stems at all those warmongers*

Yes, I do still have the good stuff (broccoli that is) but I'm keeping that to smoke in my own peace pipe. When the children stop bickering I will share...

I think so.

In fact, I've been watching season 8 recently, and was wondering why Fifth didn't take the form of Jack, since that's who Sam has deeper, more mature feelings for than Pete. But Fifth chooses Pete to impersonate. I've finally concluded that it's because 1) Fifth figures that Sam, being in a relationship with Pete, would believe it quicker (boring reason) and 2) Sam's feelings for Jack are so deep and convoluted and complicated that Fifth, who is essentially a robot, couldn't comprehend them. So, he went for impersonating the obvious choice, the easily understandable choice, because the alternative was too complex and mature for his childlike mind to figure out.

And then he set his stage on a farm. In the country. There's no evidence that Pete likes the countryside, but ample evidence that Jack does. Hmmmm.

So that begs the question. Would Sam have been more tempted (before the reveal) by Jack in that farmhouse? Would she have "bought it" more quickly?

Aaaah. I once posted a fairly longish rambling post on this. I think, long long Loooong story short, I concluded much the same.
Fifth, while seemingly able to experience emotions, actually doesn't - at least not in the same complex way in which we do. I think what he actually has is the ability to experience the memory of feelings, and to extrapolate those into his own version of them, Hence he doesn't actually love Sam, he just thinks he understands what it is (from having seen Sam's capacity to love when he first read her mind) and he concludes his "feelings" for Sam are the real deal.
Sam, at this point has buried her feelings for Jack so deep; Jack (in her mind) is in stasis and near death. She has no actual memories romantic or sexual liasions with Jack, only of friendship, professionalism and of caring for him. He is, in every sense an impossible scenario and this is very much in Sam's mind.
Pete, on the other hand, is new, exciting, fresh, actually there and she has actual, real, memories of being intimate and loving with him. There's probably also fantasies and anticipation of more (we all do it in newish relationships).
So when Fifth reads her to create an environment he thinks would be sympathetic to her needs, he picks up Pete as being "her man" but he also picks up the whole country lifestyle thing from her (and I have to believe that there is a small part of her that finds - or once found - the idea of retiring and running a farm appealing or Fifth would not have picked it). He essentially creates, what he thinks, is her perfect world but, because he doesn't understand the complexities of her relationship with Jack, or of human emotions in general, he gets it just wrong enough that she sees through it.
It's also interesting to note that the "Pete" he creates is not entirely in character; he's got all the kind, caring, looking after her thing down - the stuff he does - right, but his personality is a bit... off. This is because Fifth is reading Sam and not Pete, and there's so much Sam doesn't yet know about Pete and how he would react in certain situations... so Fifth has to extrapolate, make that up on the spot, or draw from her experiences with other human men. Given how different Pete is from the other guys (ok guy) we know Sam has actually been romantically involved with (and her comment way back when about having a soft spot for the lunatic fringe), we can be sure that Fifth cannot accurately predict how Pete would react in the same situation that, say Jonas Hanson did, or that Jack would do.


Would Sam have been more fooled had it been Jack? Well... yes and no. I think Jack is closer to what she really wants (oh ok then, exactly what she really wants) but I think the very impossibility of their being together would have made her more skeptical. I don't think the "you had a breakdown and we retired together" excuse would have worked as well and she would have questioned it more deeply. I also think that the differences betwen what Fifth thinks is Jack's personality and wat Jack's actual personality is would have been much more marked becuase Sam knows Jack a whole lot better than she knows Pete and would be far more aware of out of chracterness.
On the other hand, I think she'd have a hard time convincing herself not to accept it at face value.


Ramble over.



Oh and final thing. Shipper Rewatch. I'm taking names of people who want to write up reviews for Season 7 which we will begin on or around 4th October. If you want to do a review (even if it's just one episode) please PM me. If you have preferences or aversions for/to specific episodes, let me know that too. I will try and accomodate all wishes (but Lost City part II is mine! )


EDIT: and while typing this, I finished off tub of Ben and Jerry's choc fudge brownie... I am such a pig!

[SamJackShipper93]

In fact, I've been watching season 8 recently, and was wondering why Fifth didn't take the form of Jack, since that's who Sam has deeper, more mature feelings for than Pete. But Fifth chooses Pete to impersonate. I've finally concluded that it's because 1) Fifth figures that Sam, being in a relationship with Pete, would believe it quicker (boring reason) and 2) Sam's feelings for Jack are so deep and convoluted and complicated that Fifth, who is essentially a robot, couldn't comprehend them. So, he went for impersonating the obvious choice, the easily understandable choice, because the alternative was too complex and mature for his childlike mind to figure out.

And then he set his stage on a farm. In the country. There's no evidence that Pete likes the countryside, but ample evidence that Jack does. Hmmmm.

So that begs the question. Would Sam have been more tempted (before the reveal) by Jack in that farmhouse? Would she have "bought it" more quickly?

I've never thought about it before, but the bolded really makes sense.

And I personally think that Sam probably would have been more tempted to believe it, but considering that at the time she thought that Jack was completely unattainable, she probably would have been even less likely to believe it.

As for Sam's feelings I think that's the reason I don't believe that it was Sam, because she uses Jack, and I think that's why Jack doesn't believe it's Sam. Jolinar might be tapping into her subconscious or something, but I think that it's more that she's not familiar with the right and wrong way to address her superior officer. Just like when she lightly punched him on the shoulder in the briefing room.

Yep! This is the primary reason why I believe it was Jolinar. Jolinar knows of Sam's feelings for Jack, but this is still Season 2, where I think Sam was still trying to convince herself that her feelings were nothing more than a crush. I think she still refered to him as the Colonel, even to herself, in order to maintain some distance. Of course, Jolinar didn't know that. So instead of asking the "Colonel" not to leave her, she asks "Jack".

Anyone else in this community fic project. So far I have:

Cags
Aka
Majorsal
LtCol John Sheppard
Trinity
Shipperwriter

*raises hand* Me! Me!

[Devilish Me]

<snip>

Yes, sure I will put something together. Anyone else in this community fic project. So far I have:

Cags
Aka
Majorsal
LtCol John Sheppard
Trinity
Shipperwriter


The more the merrier and you don't have to make massive contributions or, indeed, be a spectacular writer (part of the point it to engage people who don't normally write to have some input).





*throws rotten maggoty broccoli stems at all those warmongers*

Yes, I do still have the good stuff (broccoli that is) but I'm keeping that to smoke in my own peace pipe. When the children stop bickering I will share...

<snip ramble >


EDIT: and while typing this, I finished off tub of Ben and Jerry's choc fudge brownie... I am such a pig!

I want on the list too!!!!!!

Re edit: fudge? Mnhjmmmmnhhja yum!!!!

[Rachel500]

Well, firstly...

IT WAS SAM!

Personally, I think it was Jolinar finally deciding she had nothing to lose in letting her host speak so it was Sam but it didn't work because Jack couldn't trust it was Sam no matter how much he might have wanted to believe it was her. And so he walks out on her, leaving Jolinar wondering what it will take.

While I think we were meant to think it was Jolinar trying to trick Jack (because at this point we think she's a Goa'uld and a he) in ITLOD, I believe the revelation and confirmation that the Tok'ra are not Goa'uld, and do allow their hosts to talk, is meant to suggest it really was Sam.

Moreover, Sam herself always makes the distinction between a Tok'ra and a Goa'uld in terms of how they treat their hosts so when she advises Jonas not to believe Kianna in Fallout because they've seen Goa'uld try and trick them before, I believe she's referring to Sarah/Osiris or Tanith/Poor!schmuck-who-was-his-host, not to her own experience with Jolinar.

And now I have that out of the way...

Why did Fifth not choose Jack?

It's an interesting one isn't it because Sam effectively at the time Fifth captures her is on a mission to try and find the Asgard to save Jack.

I actually think Fifth doesn't choose Jack simply because Jack isn't the "boyfriend" but rather someone Sam might want but who she believes she can't have. I think Fifth believes Pete is the easier option to make Sam believe the world he builds; he's someone Sam is with, who Sam has considered as someone she can settle down with, and who she seems to love.

I don't think Fifth really understood enough about human emotions to understand the complexities in the different ways Sam loved Jack to the way she loved Pete.

I also like to think Sam's complete mistrust of the scenario from the start underlines her hesitation with Pete's proposal later. For Sam, the concept of settling down with Pete isn't a real one at this point - it's abstract, maybe an idle fantasy that crosses her mind when she's tried and it's been a really sucky day at work, or a maybe-one-day-in-far-far-distant future. But it's not something that she really *wants* or desires in any way in her present.

[atlantis_babe34]

am i so obsessed with this couple that even when i'm watching Alias and someone says jack.. i gigle a little ?

[Akamaimom]

Regarding the bolded, yes, I think that's the real reason. But it's true that people who have become well known in their field tend to keep their maiden names professionally - unless they are in a well publicised relationship and marrying someone equally well known. I think it is slightly different for actors though, since they have to register their names as being theirs and unique to avoid professional confusion with identically named actors.
I have to admit I never really questioned why AU Sam form POV was Dr Carter not Dr O'Neill or Dr Carter-O'Neill. And, actually, she could very well have been so in her reality but, because they would have automatically called her "Carter" when she turned up - and given that she was still going through the shock of losing her husband and her whole world - it might not have been her first thought to correct them.... then after that, a bit awkward to do so what with there being another Jack and another her who were not romantically linked.



Aaaah. I once posted a fairly longish rambling post on this. I think, long long Loooong story short, I concluded much the same.
Fifth, while seemingly able to experience emotions, actually doesn't - at least not in the same complex way in which we do. I think what he actually has is the ability to experience the memory of feelings, and to extrapolate those into his own version of them, Hence he doesn't actually love Sam, he just thinks he understands what it is (from having seen Sam's capacity to love when he first read her mind) and he concludes his "feelings" for Sam are the real deal.
Sam, at this point has buried her feelings for Jack so deep; Jack (in her mind) is in stasis and near death. She has no actual memories romantic or sexual liasions with Jack, only of friendship, professionalism and of caring for him. He is, in every sense an impossible scenario and this is very much in Sam's mind.
Pete, on the other hand, is new, exciting, fresh, actually there and she has actual, real, memories of being intimate and loving with him. There's probably also fantasies and anticipation of more (we all do it in newish relationships).
So when Fifth reads her to create an environment he thinks would be sympathetic to her needs, he picks up Pete as being "her man" but he also picks up the whole country lifestyle thing from her (and I have to believe that there is a small part of her that finds - or once found - the idea of retiring and running a farm appealing or Fifth would not have picked it). He essentially creates, what he thinks, is her perfect world but, because he doesn't understand the complexities of her relationship with Jack, or of human emotions in general, he gets it just wrong enough that she sees through it.
It's also interesting to note that the "Pete" he creates is not entirely in character; he's got all the kind, caring, looking after her thing down - the stuff he does - right, but his personality is a bit... off. This is because Fifth is reading Sam and not Pete, and there's so much Sam doesn't yet know about Pete and how he would react in certain situations... so Fifth has to extrapolate, make that up on the spot, or draw from her experiences with other human men. Given how different Pete is from the other guys (ok guy) we know Sam has actually been romantically involved with (and her comment way back when about having a soft spot for the lunatic fringe), we can be sure that Fifth cannot accurately predict how Pete would react in the same situation that, say Jonas Hanson did, or that Jack would do.


Would Sam have been more fooled had it been Jack? Well... yes and no. I think Jack is closer to what she really wants (oh ok then, exactly what she really wants) but I think the very impossibility of their being together would have made her more skeptical. I don't think the "you had a breakdown and we retired together" excuse would have worked as well and she would have questioned it more deeply. I also think that the differences betwen what Fifth thinks is Jack's personality and wat Jack's actual personality is would have been much more marked becuase Sam knows Jack a whole lot better than she knows Pete and would be far more aware of out of chracterness.
On the other hand, I think she'd have a hard time convincing herself not to accept it at face value.


Ramble over.

EDIT: and while typing this, I finished off tub of Ben and Jerry's choc fudge brownie... I am such a pig!

On the name thing--she identifies herself first, so it's not the guards at Area 51 that call her "Carter". I think it's that whole professional thing that is why she's maintained her maiden name. I've watched the episode several times in the past 24 hours, and I'm thoroughly intrigued that Dr. Carter is played super snippy, while Sam is sweet and level headed. AT pulled out the crying machine in this one--holy moly, that other Carter bawls a lot. And I know she's just lost everything--but whatever.

On the second bolded part, I would be intrigued how Sam would have handled it if Fifth had created an SGC scenario--and been Jack as her CO. Would she have believed him more then? Would she have fallen for the ruse? I don't think that Fifth possessed the subtlety necessary for such a situation, but had he been able to discern that particular scenario, I wonder if she would have bought it? And what kind of personality mistakes he would have made about Jack? Because it's all based on her view of him--Jack might have come off over-heroic, or too blase about things. It's an interesting thought.

And last night, I finished off a carton of Blue Bunny Rocky Road. MmMMmMMmMm. Chocolate.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

What does it mean that Sam in Point of View is Dr. Samantha Carter?

It means she didn't change her name upon marriage, nothing more. There is, after all no real reason for her to do so, whether or not she had an established professional life before marriage.

Seaboe

[hedwig]

I too am not enamored of fics where Sam gets together with someone else, time passes (usually years) and later gets together with Jack or doesn't get together with Jack at all even though their feelings for each other were fully acknowledged. I will slog through such fics in the hopes of it getting better before the end.

I agree about these type of fics. I don't even bother reading them anymore if I see a comment about that in the subject line.

I'm also in complete agreement with whoever commented about the ones where Sam gets beaten, abused and worse by Pete or anybody else, since while it is remotely possible it could happen (especially if she was outnumbered), I just have huge problems with the ones where she pretty much allows it to happen without defending herself. Sam would just never "allow" anything like that to happen. Even in "Ascension", when Orlin appeared in her house and he said "I won't hurt you", her reply was a pretty vehement, "No, I'll hurt you!" And she could soooo do it, too. So I have no doubt, if anyone tried to assault her, she'd wipe the floor with them.

[chrono trigger]

I agree about these type of fics. I don't even bother reading them anymore if I see a comment about that in the subject line.

I'm also in complete agreement with whoever commented about the ones where Sam gets beaten, abused and worse by Pete or anybody else, since while it is remotely possible it could happen (especially if she was outnumbered), I just have huge problems with the ones where she pretty much allows it to happen without defending herself. Sam would just never "allow" anything like that to happen. Even in "Ascension", when Orlin appeared in her house and he said "I won't hurt you", her reply was a pretty vehement, "No, I'll hurt you!" And she could soooo do it, too. So I have no doubt, if anyone tried to assault her, she'd wipe the floor with them.

definately sam is a tough woman

[iiradned]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKyOR-PcgCE

Limited international viewing due to copyright restrictions.

[yessika]

am i so obsessed with this couple that even when i'm watching Alias and someone says jack.. i gigle a little ?

I'm like that too

Limited international viewing due to copyright restrictions.

Yep, that's common

[SamJackShipper93]

am i so obsessed with this couple that even when i'm watching Alias and someone says jack.. i gigle a little ?

Recent Eureka Spoilers/OT:

Spoiler:

Haha, I'm the same way. In one of the last episodes Alison calls Jack "Jack" instead of her usual "Carter" (since they're together) and Henry Deacon smiles and asks "Oh, so it's "Jack" now". Such a line that could be used if Daniel heard Sam refer to Jack that way!

[yessika]

Recent Eureka Spoilers/OT:

Spoiler:

Haha, I'm the same way. In one of the last episodes Alison calls Jack "Jack" instead of her usual "Carter" (since they're together) and Henry Deacon smiles and asks "Oh, so it's "Jack" now". Such a line that could be used if Daniel heard Sam refer to Jack that way!

Spoilers/OT:

Spoiler:

I know, I loved that and I think Daniel would say something like that