Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Liv]

preaching that we are 'wrong, wrong, wrong and S/J is the bestist thing evah! OMG ponies!!!!1!'

FF

Ok, that made me Darn those ponies!

Does a TV show need a romance?

No. No, it doesn't. Maybe it's just the non-shipper in me, but I am just so incredibly bored with the majority of romances on tv. They're just... so cliché and one-dimensional and predictable and *sighs* annoying. It's like they all follow the same path: they want to be together but they can't - there's always some kind of obstacle in the way and then there's angst angst angst and looks of longing and they say one thing but mean another and yadayadayada ad infinitum. And I just feel like shouting: just get on with it already or move on!

That's pretty much Sam/Jack in a nutshell to me. They can't be together but they can't move on either, so we get this weird mixture of shippy scenes - like the oh-so-awkward scenes in Lost City and Threads where they don't actually SAY anything, they just dance around the subject yet again and it just feels so out of place. Like those scenes are just thrown in there because, hey: romance! It doesn't make for very good storytelling, at all.

And there ARE tv couples out there who are written very well; not many but they do exist. So, it's not like I'm anti ALL romances on tv. Just the badly written ones.

EDIT: Ha, Khentkawes, I type too slowly. It's like we share a brain sometimes.

[Callista]

Maybe if a TV show would include an interesting romance that did not fall into one of these three categories... maybe then I would be interested. But the problem is... I can't think of a single example that doesn't exhibit at least one of these problems.

I thought Wash and Zoe on Firefly were a great couple. They were cute and funny together and obviously in love but could still do their jobs and have deep, meaningful relationships with their friends or plastic dinosaurs. Zoe could go off on dangerous missions with the handsome leader and never was there any question that she loved Wash or that Wash was jealous. Of course, they were already married when the show started. I thought (and my husband has mentioned as well) that they were a great example of how marriage can be shown as trusting and respectful but still have passion and romance. (And, yes, marriage can have passion and romance!!! It really happens!!!)

But, I don't think all TV shows need romance. And they certainly don't need UST. When it comes down to it, I think its the UST that bothers me the most on television because I think that is something that is fairly rare in real life (at least after high school and college). I think most real people over the age of twenty-one or so either go tell the other person how they feel within a couple of weeks or months of feeling it or they realize it's not going to happen and they move on. As far as I can tell, it's only in novels and on television and movies that these feelings go on for years and years and years (unless one of the people has some sort of obsession or something). I can see why some people would think that UST is entertaining (apparently, most people think that if the entertainment industry is to be believed), but I just get frustrated and annoyed with it.

[Khentkawes]

No. No, it doesn't. Maybe it's just the non-shipper in me, but I am just so incredibly bored with the majority of romances on tv. They're just... so cliché and one-dimensional and predictable and *sighs* annoying. It's like they all follow the same path: they want to be together but they can't - there's always some kind of obstacle in the way and then there's angst angst angst and looks of longing and they say one thing but mean another and yadayadayada ad infinitum. And I just feel like shouting: just get on with it already or move on!

Word. I think you summed up my feelings more succinctly than I did.

That's pretty much Sam/Jack in a nutshell to me. They can't be together but they can't move on either, so we get this weird mixture of shippy scenes - like the oh-so-awkward scenes in Lost City and Threads where they don't actually SAY anything, they just dance around the subject yet again and it just feels so out of place. Like those scenes are just thrown in there because, hey: romance! It doesn't make for very good storytelling, at all.

It sounds sort of ADD when you put it that way. Like maybe the writers were bored and threw in some romance like it was a pinch of salt, and no one would notice or mind.

And there ARE tv couples out there who are written very well; not many but they do exist. So, it's not like I'm anti ALL romances on tv. Just the badly written ones.

Really? Could you tell me who those well-written couples are? That wasn't sarcastic, honestly, I'd just like to know so I can start watching a show with decent romance in order to see what it's like.

I honestly can't think of a good TV romance. Even John/Aeryn (which, as a Farscape fan, I like) has some poor writing thrown in. It still suffers from the idealized romance just a bit (although, in that case, I have to admit that the "starcrossed lovers" trope worked well for me. What can I say, it's the one pairing I really like), and the exaggerated angst factor certainly came into the show after a while.

EDIT: Ha, Khentkawes, I type too slowly. It's like we share a brain sometimes.

Hehe. I normally share a brain with Callista, but you can join us too. Isn't it nice to find like-minded individuals? It always reminds me that I'm not crazy when I find people who see the show the same way I do.

[Callista]

Hehe. I normally share a brain with Callista, but you can join us too. Isn't it nice to find like-minded individuals? It always reminds me that I'm not crazy when I find people who see the show the same way I do.

OK, but I'm not sure that I have much brain to spare...you might get stuck with some of the old parts that got killed off during Spring Break my sophomore year in college....

[Khentkawes]

I thought Wash and Zoe on Firefly were a great couple. They were cute and funny together and obviously in love but could still do their jobs and have deep, meaningful relationships with their friends or plastic dinosaurs. Zoe could go off on dangerous missions with the handsome leader and never was there any question that she loved Wash or that Wash was jealous. Of course, they were already married when the show started. I thought (and my husband has mentioned as well) that they were a great example of how marriage can be shown as trusting and respectful but still have passion and romance. (And, yes, marriage can have passion and romance!!! It really happens!!!)

Okay. I have to watch Firefly now (well, not now now. More like sometime this summer now). Until now, no one has managed to convince me to give Firefly a chance. Which is not to say that I had anything against it as a show, I just didn't see what the appeal was. But I will give it a try... when this term ends.

[Callista]

Okay. I have to watch Firefly now (well, not now now. More like sometime this summer now). Until now, no one has managed to convince me to give Firefly a chance. Which is not to say that I had anything against it as a show, I just didn't see what the appeal was. But I will give it a try... when this term ends.

I thought it was pretty good. I didn't watch it until just last year as I never remember hearing about it when it was actually on TV. I'm not vouching for the movie, though!! Actually, in addition to the lovely Zoe/Wash relationship there is a dreaded UST relationship as well...or I guess two of them. But it only lasted a year, so I didn't have time to get too annoyed by those.

I shall try to think of some more good romances/relationships while I am cooking some chicken. (OK, so marriage isn't all romance and passion. )

[Khentkawes]

OK, but I'm not sure that I have much brain to spare...you might get stuck with some of the old parts that got killed off during Spring Break my sophomore year in college....

Hmmm... this is starting to sound like a bad plan for us. My brain is suffering from grad-school-itis. So it's not going to do anyone much good.

I thought it was pretty good. I didn't watch it until just last year as I never remember hearing about it when it was actually on TV. I'm not vouching for the movie, though!! Actually, in addition to the lovely Zoe/Wash relationship there is a dreaded UST relationship as well...or I guess two of them. But it only lasted a year, so I didn't have time to get too annoyed by those.

Hehehe. Well, I'll still give it a shot. I saw the end of Serenity on TV a while back and was a bit amazed at how silly it seemed. But I know a friend who likes it, so maybe I'll have her watch it with me.

I shall try to think of some more good romances/relationships while I am cooking some chicken. (OK, so marriage isn't all romance and passion. )

you crack me up.

[Callista]

Hmmm... this is starting to sound like a bad plan for us. My brain is suffering from grad-school-itis. So it's not going to do anyone much good.

Liiiiv.....we neeeeeed your braaaaaaiiiiiinnnnnnn. Commmmmmmee clooooooooserrrrrr!

[Liv]

It sounds sort of ADD when you put it that way. Like maybe the writers were bored and threw in some romance like it was a pinch of salt, and no one would notice or mind.

That's pretty much what it feels like, yeah.

Really? Could you tell me who those well-written couples are? That wasn't sarcastic, honestly, I'd just like to know so I can start watching a show with decent romance in order to see what it's like.

Some good tv couples, that IMO, were written well:

Zoe/Wash (Firefly)
Sheridan/Delenn (Babylon 5)
Jed Bartlet/Abbey Bartlet (The West Wing)
Jadzia/Worf (Deep Space 9)

I agree with Callista about Wash/Zoe and Firefly; they were such a good couple, for all the reasons listed and the show itself... well, it's been how many years now since the cancellation and I'm STILL not over it. One of the best first seasons of any show ever, imo.

Babylon 5: Sheridan/Delenn is, if not the heart of the show then at least at the heart of the show, I would say. And Delenn was such a strong character in her own right. I still get chills everytime I watch the "If you value your lives, be elsewhere" scene. (I highly recommend the show to anyone who hasn’t watched it already. And if you have, then you should watch it again. )

The West Wing, well, let me just start off by saying that before I watched this show, I would have undergone triple root canal work before even entertaining the idea of watching a show about politics. But it is SO well written, especially the first 4 seasons, with Aaron Sorkin at the helm. (I admit I only watched sporadically after that, but those first 4 seasons are GOLD). And the Jed/Abbey relationship is so funny and brilliant and supportive, but there's also realistic arguments and conflicts and it's just all so well done.

With Deep Space Nine and Jadzia/Worf, I love their relationship because they were both such strong characters and Jadzia wasn't the least bit afraid to challenge and stand up to Worf and it just felt like they were on equal footing. I seem to have a thing for couples where the female character isn't afraid to challenge the man they're in love with and to stand up for what they believe in and get into arguments and still trust that their love for each other is strong enough to survive.

But if you're like me and enjoy the platonic relationships the most, then I just have to say: watch season 4 of Dr Who. One of the best written relationships I have ever seen on tv is the one between The Doctor and Donna.

Even John/Aeryn (which, as a Farscape fan, I like) has some poor writing thrown in. It still suffers from the idealized romance just a bit (although, in that case, I have to admit that the "starcrossed lovers" trope worked well for me. What can I say, it's the one pairing I really like), and the exaggerated angst factor certainly came into the show after a while.

Yeah, there were plenty of obstacles for John and Aeryn to overcome, but I can’t help but love them because the chemistry was overwhelming and it was clear how much they loved each other pretty early on. It's one of the few OTP's that I have. Even the couples I listed above, I don't/didn't ship actively at all (since I'm a non-shipper at heart ) but I enjoyed them immensely and was happy that they were so well written.

Hehe. I normally share a brain with Callista, but you can join us too.

Thank you; I hope it doesn't get too crowded in here.

Isn't it nice to find like-minded individuals? It always reminds me that I'm not crazy when I find people who see the show the same way I do.

I feel the same way.

And, err... on topic: Sam/Jack - do not want.

[jckfan55]

I don't think every show needs a romance. When I first started watching SG1 it was with fairly random episodes on the marathons. I didn't see any S/J for ages. I thought "how refreshing that they haven't paired off 'the girl' with the lead." Silly me.

[jdjunkie]

I don't think every show needs a romance. When I first started watching SG1 it was with fairly random episodes on the marathons. I didn't see any S/J for ages. I thought "how refreshing that they haven't paired off 'the girl' with the lead." Silly me.

D'oh, silly you.
What first gave the incoming missile of shippy doom away? The tinkly piano music? The lingering two-shots? The badly-written "Sir, about ..." "I know" conversations?
It was indeed quite refreshing to find a show that didn't appear to be following formula. And then ... oh dear.

[Frostfox]

I don't think every show needs a romance. When I first started watching SG1 it was with fairly random episodes on the marathons. I didn't see any S/J for ages. I thought "how refreshing that they haven't paired off 'the girl' with the lead." Silly me.

Hah, they lulled you into a false sense of security and then hit you with the dreaded shippy hammer of doom!

FF

[discodiva]

D'oh, silly you.
What first gave the incoming missile of shippy doom away? The tinkly piano music? The lingering two-shots? The badly-written "Sir, about ..." "I know" conversations?
It was indeed quite refreshing to find a show that didn't appear to be following formula. And then ... oh dear.

Hah, they lulled you into a false sense of security and then hit you with the dreaded shippy hammer of doom!

FF

That's enough from you two Bad Women (tm )...do you want me to spend the night with my head in a bucket of brain bleach?...


Deeds xx

[Frostfox]

That's enough from you two Bad Women (tm )...do you want me to spend the night with my head in a bucket of brain bleach?...


Deeds xx

Is that a challenge...
You know how sick jd's mind is, you read her LJ.
And you know I can churn out deathless prose at the drop of a keyboard.

"Her cerulean blue spheres locked with his chocolate brown orbs..."

I could go on, but it's possibly against the Geneva Convention on the grounds of cruel and unusual punshment.

FF

[discodiva]

"Her cerulean blue spheres locked with his chocolate brown orbs..."

I could go on, but it's possibly against the Geneva Convention on the grounds of cruel and unusual punshment.

FF

Wot...not "limpid pools of limpidness"?....*gigglesnort*....


Deeds xx *who really should be in bed because she's tired out*....