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**Petra** · 23 April 2009, 07:15 AM

Hi

Sorry to drop in on you guys, I know it's not the best place for me to post, but since Frostfox gave her permission (sorta).. I just have a few questions to ask, and then I'll be back to lurking, no worries.

Originally posted by Frostfox View Post

That's my main fear too, that Sam and Jack have to, in every scene, be shot together. As if, if any other character stands with either of them, the ship fairy dies. Which actually says a lot about the lack of chemistry; if you have to block them together in every scene for fear that seeing them with other actors will show this up!

Okay, first question: Since when Jack and Sam have to be shot together in every scene? They don't have more "one on one" scenes than, for example, Jack and Daniel. Moreover during ship scenes there is usually someone else present (most often Teal'c). So I'm wondering when do you see it?
This is not an accusation, or a gauntlet, or anything like it, I'm just curious.

I didn't hate Pete or the idea of Sam having a life outside the SGC. Had they kept it low key, an odd, short scene here and there, not a problem but they couldn't do that, could they? And they did Sam no favours by showing her still pining for the boss while leading the poor sap around by the ... nose. Made her look manipulative and cruel to a guy who's only sin was not to be Jack.

I actually agree with a bolded part.

As for the rest..I'm not sure is this a former anti-ship thread or discussion thread? So can I, as a shipper, disagree and discuss Pete's actions or is this place an "antishipper heaven", meaning a place where you don't have to discuss anything with shippers? I wouldn't want to butt in where I shouldn't.

I didn't like how they wrote Pete as a 'lesser man'. Jack O'Neill, uber sex god, no woman can fail to fall for his super sex appeal, no man can stand comparison to this Alpha of Alpha males. Utter tripe.

I realise it's sarcasm

Still, again I'm at a loss why would you think that? I have many issues with Pete but I've never thought he was a "lesser" man. And Jack being an Alpha male just doesn't add up. He was shown to have a much smaller number of any relationships/flings on the show than the rest of the team. And the women usually hit on him (repeatedly, because it takes him some time to notice

), not the other way around. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think this is how a "uber sex god" behaves.

Edit: Just one more thing about the general public. Most of the casual viewers I know don't care about the ship either way. If it is - okay, if it isn't - also ok. None of them would mind one or two shippy scenes in the next movie. And those who aren't non-shippers are in favour of the ship. My best friend doesn't watch SG-1, she watched only first season and a few odd episodes here and there (she isn't into sci-fi in any form), and the only thing that got her attention was S/J ship. When I mentioned a third movie her first question was: "Will there be any J/S romance?". And I think there are other people like her out there, who may be inclined to buy the third movie because of the romance. This is probably the only reason why TPTB will put it there: romance sells movies.

And given that my personal experiences with casual viewers differ from yours, I don't think anyone from us fans can tell what the "general audience" likes.

*goes back to lurking*

**discodiva** · 23 April 2009, 08:20 AM

I'm afraid I'm not the right person to really answer any of your in depth comments.....

I'm a simple person and I used to post on this thread in quite simple terms....

I don't like S/J ship ....period.....I find it embarrassing, does a disservice to the acting skills of two quite talented actors, makes their characters look ridiculous and childish and it detracts from my enjoyment of a series I have followed faithfully for many years.....

....and I hope to god that my enjoyment of what I fear may be the last SG-1 film isn't ruined by it....

I cannot and will not be persuaded otherwise, so having made this statement I guess there's not a lot more for me to say on this subject, or thread.....

Cheerio folks!....

Deeds xx

**666startover** · 23 April 2009, 08:46 AM

For me, the S/J ship should have ended in grace, when Sam realized that the feelings she had for jack comes from a defense mechanism- she is afraid to truly love, so she chooses a man that she knows will never love her back.
Sadly, I guess the TPTB didn't think the same...
I do agree (as lots of you said before) that the whole S/J ship is based more on Sam, and less on jack.
Anyways, I really hope to see more Jack-Daniel scene then Jack-Sam in the 3rd movie..

**Frostfox** · 23 April 2009, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Khentkawes View Post

I really hope that they don't try to handle this awkward "relationship" in the third SG-1 movie. While I agree in principle with the statement that the writers made a mistake by not resolving the issue long ago... at this point I think it's too late to fix that, so they need to just continue as they have been by deferring the resolution. Anything they do now would seem out of place in the series as a whole. Anything more than hints would break the style that they have used for the series up until now. I think in this case, it's the casual fans/viewers who they should consider, not the fanatical viewers (like those of us crazies on GW

). Because the die-hard S/J shippers won't be satisfied with anything short of full, blatant confirmation, and the non-shippers will object to anything carrying shipy overtones, whether it's blatant or not (at least, I'll object.

).

The difference is that casual fans (in my experience, at least) either never noticed the S/J because they didn't care about it and thought it was just harmless fun (if they saw it at all), or they saw it but considered it to be just the normal TV UNST, or they liked it and thought that Sam and Jack got together off screen after season 8, but that it was kept off screen because it wasn't central to the plot or to the adventure style of the show. For viewers who fall into any of these categories, some blatant shipy confirmation will seem awkward and unnecessary. And yes, I realize that I'm making a lot of assumptions about the "general" viewers, but that has been my experience with friends who watch the show, but who don't come online. I'd hazard a guess that most viewers who do not participate in online fandom simply don't care enough for it to matter. So for them, it would be distracting.

I don't know many people who watched SG1 outside of fandom. Of the ones I do know, my best friend loathes S/J for what it did to Sam. Her husband and daughter don't care.

Originally posted by discodiva View Post

That's pretty much my experience of the general viewing public too....both my husband and son are, compared to me, casual viewers - casual as in they enjoy the series and take interest in all the storylines...they aren't particularly biased towards a certain character, although my son when younger, had a preference for O'Neill as a hero figure...

.....but the one thing they, and those friends of my son who are also interested in SG-1, have in common is............

They couldn't give a flying fig, nor do they hardly ever notice, any S/J ship whatsoever!!...

I think that the notion of S/J ship is far more prevalent in the female fan section....and I think a small minority more quite often like to see themselves in the role of Sam, because Jack/RDA is their hero/fantasy...

....NOTE I said small minority, no way am I implying that this is the norm!...

Deeds xx

There are numerous reasons people crave affection in TV shows, books, films, sometimes it's something lacking in their own lives, or very different from their own relationships. Sometimes it's harmless escapism.
Myself, I'd rather have real romance than second hand stuff of the TV.

That Canadian study I pointed to brought out that modern mass media depictions of romance, which is a idealised, romanticised and a long way from the realities of every day life, is making young people dissatisfied with their actual relationships as they can never live up to the media's fictionalised ideal. In very much the same way that young people get a false image of what is beautiful from the airbrushed perfection in the media, they are now getting a false idea of what a relationship should be about from the romanticised perfection in the media.

Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post

For me, all of the SG-1 team members have built their friendships on common experiences, sometimes ones they shared together like in Serpent's Grasp, or in pairs like Sam and Jack in Solitudes, Sam and Daniel in Gamekeeper, Jack and Teal'c in Tangent, or Jack and Daniel in Abyss. Probably what I love most about the show was the variety of friendships showcased in the SG-1 team, and to me at least, they all felt natural and complemented each other. The whole team, with all its myriad of emotions and relationships, is what caught my attention and made me become more than just a casual Stargate fan.

I was a casual fan until maybe 7-8 months ago and had seen all of SG-1 before venturing online, so that's likely why my perspective on Sam and Jack is so different from long-time fans. For me still the S/J ship is just one aspect of the show, so I personally don't find small mentions of it distracting but it's not an aspect I focus on when watching the show. So one scene in a Jack-centric action/adventure film probably won't bother me at all.

I loved the way the team complemented each other, playing to each others strengths and weakness' and most of the time I can ignore or not see the disruption S/J called, but just now and then, it becomes too intrusive for me.
But everyone is going to take something different from the show, it's just human nature and the way we watch TV.

FF

**Frostfox** · 23 April 2009, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Coela Bellatore View Post

Well I'm not a shipper and not an anti-shipper either, I'm pretty new to SG-1 and have only seen the first 2 seasons. Going on that as an Air Force Officer and being that your discussing their interactions in the first season I have some things to put out here (not the obvious its against regs stuff).

This is pretty intense but it bears saying: Sam went to the Air Force Academy.

One of my best friends in the world went to AFA and emerged from it a cynically bitter and disillusioned person. He found that the amount of sexual violence directed against female cadets, staff members, and non-personnel to be disgusting to the point he often got in fights with his fellow cadets his Plebe year. After that he took a less confrontational response to it but he has some deeply disturbing stories of sexual abuse that still haunt him.

A lot of the abuse came from upperclassmen and Academy personnel, superior officers, which are figures of authority and power in the military.

From the point of the early interactions between Sam and Jack it bears two alternatives based on the two most common reactions to sexual abuse (I got this from my friend who creepily enough learned it at an academy Psych class):

1. She hates male superiors and acts as "one of the boys" as well as in a overt feminist manner (explains Emancipation). Her affection for Jack overcomes this and he shows her that men can be good again awww.

2. Your signature got me thinking; however, that she liked him from when they met the first time in CoTG. This implies a dark suggestion in that Sam developed a sort of abuse Stockholm Syndrome that means she is attracted to superiors who treat her badly, i.e. Jack in CoTG. The dick measuring contest in the SGC when she is introduced to the team could confirm that as instead of dismissing the remarks she eggs them on, enjoying the feeling of being found "unworthy".

Regardless of all that I think that by season 2 they have a genuine affection based on shared experiences and getting to know one another. The origin of the relationship interested me so that is why I posted this.

Interesting. And depressing as hell, I know this kind of thing went on in the past (in the UK) I was hoping things had improved.

Originally posted by jdjunkie View Post

Thing is, we never saw Sam and Jack talk successfully about anything outside of work. Every single time Sam tried to talk about personal stuff Jack closed her down, and often non too kindly or subtly. I saw no friendship in any real sense of the word in that.

I do think TPTB tried to sell us a grand romance. The fact that they couldn't write it meant it came across more like Peyton Place and made both characters look like emotionally immature dolts.

Where we can agree, however, is on the question of mutual respect and trust ... on an entirely professional level. Their professional relationship was great, especially in the early years.

YMM - and clearly does - V.

Makes the world go round.

We saw the odd, very rare, line or two. I remember one about making scrambled eggs and beer? It was a nice little exchange, no romantic schloop, just co-workers and friends laughing about something. But we just didn't get any indication that they really know each other, indeed the whole nature of their professional relationship, as shown on the program precludes that kind of intimacy.