Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Jace021903]

I'm to the point in my little "JonisaWorld" where I simply FF through any S/J shippy scene and pretend it doesn't exist. That way I can still enjoy the characters.



Season 9 can't come fast enough. I'm a huge scaper, so adding Ben Browder and Claudia Black is a dream come true for me. I can't wait to see what MS's and CJ's storylines will be, and there's the added bonus of (probably) not having to deal with this shippy stuff anymore. Thank goodness.

I save episodes on my DVR and make my own edited copies to rewatch.

I am looking forward to season 9 too. It will be a relief not to have to worry about the shippy stuff. And I am excited about the new cast additions.

Jace

[Easter Lily]

I almost wish that I could see at least a smidgeon or the tiniest drop of spark between them. Something. Anything. To justify all the awkwardly, clumsy scenes that unfortunately find their way inside my brain. But I can't. I. Just. Don't. See. It. It's so frustrating to me, to have the characters that I usually recognize get turned into something they're not, all for the sake of ship.

Spoiler:

Jack was completely neutral throughout this entire scene - and frankly - it seemed to me like he couldn't wait for her to leave.
It was just BAD. Oh, so bad.

I think the word I'm searching for is "contrived"... in my review of Threads

Spoiler:

I thought that Jack seemed pretty happy in the new relationship and then the GF ditches him citing the fact that "Jack had issues"... HE DID? It didn't seem that way from where I was sitting. Carter, perhaps... but Jack was Mr Happy-Go-Lucky himself...
And then voila, everyone tries to push them together after 6 plus years of silent affirmation?...

all very well-timed... all very calculated... a matchmade in Stargate command...

[Frostfox]

It isn't that I'm anti-ship in general, as I've shipped for a few other characters on other shows. And it isn't that I haven't tried to find some teeny little spark of chemistry between Sam and Jack. I have. I've really looked because I want to like it. I don't want to be anti-anything. But it just isn't there for me, no matter how hard I try to see it. At. All.

That's me too. I have no problem with the shippers at all, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't see it, particularly on Jack's part. Some 'evangelical' shippers seem to have a problem with that though, as though everyone has to see the ship. Though I must say, most of the shippers round here seem pretty civil.

Spoilers for Threads - I thought he looked relaxed and natural with Kerry and deeply embarrassed by Sam turning up at his house (poor Sam) and the arm round her while her dad lay dying looked like a true and sure friendship to me.

I have one married male friend who I have no sexual attraction towards but we can hug each other and cry on each other's shoulders when bad stuff happens - his wife being very sick with cancer, the death of a mutual friend - without it being any problem. Grown up people can have grown up friend ships with people of either gender and that's how I, quite happily see Sam and Jack.

Foxy

[astronomicalchick]

That's me too. I have no problem with the shippers at all, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't see it, particularly on Jack's part. Some 'evangelical' shippers seem to have a problem with that though, as though everyone has to see the ship. Though I must say, most of the shippers round here seem pretty civil.

Yeah, most of us are okay...

I'm torn. On one hand, I don't object to Sam and Jack ship (I used to actively ship for them) and on the other, I hated the way that it was done in Stargate. It was so much better just left alone. I had real problems with the soap opera-ness of it which started in season 7. Once the car-crash that was Chimera they had no way of solving it so that Carter looked good. As time went on, I just got less convinced of it and meh, I went off to ship elsewhere.

Even tho, when I was a die-hard Sam and Jack Shipper I could always see the point about the chemistry...

On the other hand, lots of my friends are shippers, so I'm kind of

Spoiler:

happy for them. But I wish it could have been done so that the fact that a much loved recurring character was mourned and honoured properly

[Frostfox]

Yeah, most of us are okay...
Once the car-crash that was Chimera they had no way of solving it so that Carter looked good.

I think that's my main problem with the ship, I keep on seeing Sam, who I loved, in a bad light and it just keeps getting worse, I don't find her actions and reactions credible for a 30 something airforce officer.

Sorry, bit distracted, Tim Curry is strutting his stuff in RHPS on TV and I'm enjoying the view, he's very, very distracting. [shallow]drool[/shallow]

[astronomicalchick]

I think that's my main problem with the ship, I keep on seeing Sam, who I loved, in a bad light and it just keeps getting worse, I don't find her actions and reactions credible for a 30 something airforce officer.

Sorry, bit distracted, Tim Curry is strutting his stuff in RHPS on TV and I'm enjoying the view, he's very, very distracting. [shallow]drool[/shallow]

I love RHPS, if I'm feeling down, I just put the soundtrack on and I'm away.

that'd be the original film soundtrack...

And yes he is very distracting... I do need therapy... *sigh*

[keshou]

THREADS.

Double sigh.

I almost wish that I could see at least a smidgeon or the tiniest drop of spark between them. Something. Anything. To justify all the awkwardly, clumsy scenes that unfortunately find their way inside my brain. But I can't. I. Just. Don't. See. It. It's so frustrating to me, to have the characters that I usually recognize get turned into something they're not, all for the sake of ship.

I was very taken aback by how Sam acted in this episode. She was just... strange. It sure as heck wasn't the Sam Carter I'm used to seeing. The sighing, the flinching, the eye-rolling. And the awkwardness! Oh, the awkwardness!

Spoilers for Threads:

Spoiler:

The scene where she goes to see Jack was even worse than the one in Lost City. And Jack just seemed embarrassed by the whole thing. Every bit of emotional reaction (which is to say NONE AT ALL if we're talking the romantic variety) came from Sam. Jack was completely neutral throughout this entire scene - and frankly - it seemed to me like he couldn't wait for her to leave.

It was just BAD. Oh, so bad.

Oh, yeah, and they killed Jacob.

At this point I'm just anxiously awaiting s9 instead. I don't think I could stand another season of this. In fact, if Ben Browder hadn't been added to s9, and all of the other changes hadn't been announced I don't think I would have continued to watch. TPTB have just ruined the characters of Sam Carter and Jack O'Neill too much for me. It's a real shame, but that's the way I see it. I can't even look at them in a scene together anymore, without cringeing.

Yes. Threads. So very frustrating when you don't see the chemistry, isn't it? I think I took it better than you because 1) I was terribly spoiled and thus well-prepared and 2) At this point I didn't care what they did as long as they got it resolved.

Otherwise "ditto" for all your comments. I've really hated the way they've written Sam during this arc. I'm looking forward to S9 as well and ready to see the backside of this particular storyline.

[Blue Banrigh]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't see chemistry between the two. Not against any of them having a relationship but let it be outside work. That's kinda why I liked Pete, he knew what she did (she didn't have to lie to him) but he wasn't actively a part of it.

How come Sam's black widow curse doesn't work on Jack?

[Zahra]

you know, I'm glad there is a thread about this. I'm definatly not a fan of sam/jack.

of course, sadly, I am starting to see it, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't like it! I just don't think it works. keep in mind I've really only seen the 2nd season all the way through (and vaious other epps. from all the rest) but something about shipping those two just doesn't work for me. I'm tempted to call myself a sam/daniel shipper, although I don't really see it...I guess its mostly just wishful thinking 'cause they get along so well together, but I don't think that's something that would work either. really...I think its best if they just don't have any inter-main character romance, you know? it just would work so much better.

[Easter Lily]

How come Sam's black widow curse doesn't work on Jack?

It's a very selective curse... only works on those who are not part of the SGC...

[Jace021903]

I think that's my main problem with the ship, I keep on seeing Sam, who I loved, in a bad light and it just keeps getting worse, I don't find her actions and reactions credible for a 30 something airforce officer.

I agree completely. I just wrote a mini rant on this in another forum.

Sam was a great character early on, but the writers have ripped the heart out of the character by just concentrating on her love life.

In past seasons, Sam was a tough woman, but she had a compassionate side and there are many examples of her being caring and supportive toward others. (Solitudes, Singularity, Holiday, and many more)

In the last couple of seasons, though, I can't think of too many times when she has shown any caring or support for anybody else. The character herself gets lots of support and physical comfort--mostly from Jack to show the ship, but if someone else is in danger, too many times she is all wrapped
up in how she feels about Jack. Examples are in spoiler space below...

Spoiler:

Evolution, Heroes, Lost City, Threads, etc..

Sam has become a one-dimensional character who is now defined almost exclusively by her feelings for her boss which bring out the worst in her--indecisive, weak, and self-absorbed.

She never used to be written that way, and I really miss the old Sam.

Jace

[Spiko]

lol. oops. this was edited cause it was rude. I wasnt thinking and didn't even realize it. sory

[Lunar]

Spiko, this thread is for anti-S/J shippers, and posts expressing shock at their existence really don't belong here. They're Off Topic and some might consider them quite offensive. If you want to come and talk Sam and Jack ship, come over to the shipper family discussion thread, here

[Spiko]

sory, i didnt relize i was being offensive. thx

[Katerine]

Coming in a little late into the thread - apologies if I'm repeating something others have said - will catch up on my reading later. Also, I've only watched through season 7 so far (I don't get cable), so my observations may be a little out of date.

What's wrong with the Jack/Sam ship? Let me count the ways...

1. First and foremost... watching unresolved sexual tension, when you're waiting for the inevitable moment when the tension will be resolved, is interesting and provocative. Watching unresolved sexual tension, when you know that it will never, and can never, be resolved, is boring. Because nothing ever changes. Spending more screen time on it will not make it interesting.
   
   
2. A close second... Jack and Sam actually have no sexual chemistry. I see them on screen, I think, "friends." Unless, of course, the writers are trying to push unresolved sexual tension on us, in which case I think, "coworkers who are incapable of being relaxed while alone in the same general area, despite the fact that they've worked together well for the last 7 years." I look back through the seasons, I see Jack flirting, and Sam feeling flattered and confused. I do not see deep, abiding love. Or even lust.
   
   Perhaps I'm biased because I'm a Jack/Daniel shipper. But really - the reason I am is that Jack and Daniel actually have chemistry! This makes the lack of it between Sam and Jack all the more noticable, especially with the writers trying to tell us that it's there.
   
   
3. One of the things I learned during my time in the ER fandom is this: If you want us to care about a romantic relationship between two characters on a show, you have to make us care about the characters as individuals, FIRST. The relationship is secondary. This is one of the reasons I stopped watching ER - the writers fell into the trap of thinking that, to keep the viewer interested, all they had to do was write about couples and their problems... they almost stopped writing about the individuals altogether (and when they did, they didn't seem to have a clear, consistent idea of who those individuals were), and very rarely even wrote about medicine anymore.
   
   Stargate hasn't gotten that bad... yet. But I'm a little concerned. See, Stargate used to be about saving the world, about encountering new peoples, about right and wrong, and about the personal quests and development of the main characters.
   
   Daniel was constantly changing, constantly learning, until his hero's quest culminated in his ascension. In the process, he introduced us to the Asgaard and the Ancients, and enabled several major storyline points. In my mind, this is why Daniel is the main character of the show, because far more than anybody else, he is the one that grows. Somebody once likened him in a fanfic to Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, because he began the quest, and the quest ends when he finds his way home. Even when he was gone, he was still the main character, because we knew he was still out there learning and changing.
   
   Jack never really had a quest (and it would have been out of character, and not fitting his job), but then, he's at the center of all of the world-saving activity, and he's the leader of the team, so he's never particularly needed a quest of his own. He does, however, have some issues and gifts that keep him interesting (the Ancients thing, Charlie, etc.)
   
   Teal'c, of course, has his mission to save all Jaffa (which to me is kind of boring, because again, very little ever changes. He goes to a planet and preaches to all Jaffa the answers which he himself has known since the beginning of the show... repeat...). Far more interesting, though, is Teal'c "humanizing" - the very gradual process where he's, if not becoming more human, at least learning more about humans.
   
   Sam... used to have a quest. Two, in fact - the first was the simple "woman in the military" thing. The second one began with Jolinar. It included introducing us to the Tok'ra, it included her father, and it involved her coming to terms with the other memories inside her and resolving the ongoing questions of "just how good/not good are the Tok'ra? How does this reflect on Dad... and on me? There's a lot of tension in my family... how do I deal with it?" Recently, though, all of these very interesting questions have been discarded in favor of this love interest thing. Really, what happened with Sam in seasons 6 and 7? Besides the love interest thing? Without anything else to back it up, why should we care about the love interest thing?
   
   Again, what the writers need to understand is that spending more screen time on the supposed unresolved sexual tension (that will never be resolved) will not make us care more about it. It might, however, make me care less about the show. Stargate is a show that's all about substance - metaphorical battles between good and evil, great missions and quests, ethically-debatable situations, and "meaning of life stuff." Because it normally has so much substance, it draws people who are looking for substance. Therefore, if they want us to care about Sam, they need to give her something with substance. Until then, give me more Daniel - he's a whole lot more interesting.

Incidentally, I find it interesting that so many people are against "Grace." To me, that ep was a step in the right direction... I interpreted the "Jack" scene as Sam arriving at the conclusion that she's been using her crush on Jack as an excuse to not find anybody else. Regardless of whether Sam's right about that, it's still a very human thing to do. And Sam's immediately going out and finding somebody else (especially somebody as seemingly right for her as Pete) would have been a good thing, if she hadn't subsequently shown signs of waffling about it. *sigh*