Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Beta Candy]

I brought myself to watch D&C the other day (which ever day it was on...) I'm glad they didn't show Sam's retest. That way, I can take Jack's comments anyway I choose (which of cource is the anti-ship way).

One thing I enjoyed while watching it was the Freya kissed Jack (both times). If you really watch it, you can see that Jack is reciprocating the kisses. Do you really think he would reach up to her face or even let her get that second kiss in, if he really had feelings for Sam... Personally, I would think not (at least I have to believe that way to get any ship thoughts out of my head. )

Then the look on Sam's face when she shot and went to Martouf. You can tell she has feelings for him. Strong romantic feelings.



Jump several seasons to Chimera. I love the comment Sam makes to Pete about the guys she's dated have all died. I wouldn't say she dated most of the guys she was attracted to. But obviously she had enough emotional attachment to them to consider it dating. So why 'date' these other guys if she had feelings for Jack. I never would do that.



Just had to get my thoughts down (sorry if it seems a bit ramdomized.)

Hey, I've always thought that, but assumed I was just missing something. They are both TOTALLY into other people in D&C. Sure he "cares about her more than he's supposed to". Chances are, if Daniel and Teal'c were female, he might get confused and think his undying love for both of them was also romantic.

A lot of the times Jack hugs or touches Sam, it seems TPTB think that's a sexual thing. To me, it's cultural. Men hugging men is looked at a bit strangely in western culture, but hugging a woman is just fine. In "Into the Fire", if Daniel had been the first one Jack found alive, I think he probably would have wanted to hug the crap out of him, but refrained because guys don't do that. But because it was Sam he grabbed in the corridor to keep her from crying out, he had no problem with holding onto her a few extra seconds. Did that mean sexual attraction? Maybe. But I read it as just taking comfort. Same with the scene in the next ep where he's just come out of the freeze and they hug for like 3 minutes. The guy was freezing! I had to wonder if he wouldn't have been all over Makepeace if that's who was available, LOL.

I can understand thinking RDA is trying to play like he's in love and not doing a great job of it... but because I have no problem reading his affection for Daniel, Teal'c, Hammond, etc., and even Sam when it's a non-shippy moment of bonding, I tend to assume he's playing it the way he means to, and it's just not that important to Jack. Maybe this is just me, but I always got the feeling he was more fascinated that she could possibly be interested in him than he was really interested in her.

[Mr Prophet]

In "Into the Fire", if Daniel had been the first one Jack found alive, I think he probably would have wanted to hug the crap out of him, but refrained because guys don't do that.

Two words: Space. Monkey.

[Beta Candy]

Two words: Space. Monkey.

ROFLMAO... okay, so he WOULD have hugged the crap out of him, but probably not lingered quite so long with it. Big manly bear hugs that end abruptly... and of course the occasional face stroking...

[xayeidemon]

Hey, Jack has proved on many occasions that he has no problem with hugging a guy. The problem comes when people interpret all these hugs as being sexual in nature when we all know that's not the case. The same goes for Jack's hugs with Sam. To me, they don't look any more affectionate/romantic than his hugs with Daniel.

As for face stroking...has he ever stroked Sam's face? Please tell me if he has, because so far I've only seen him do it to Daniel and Teal'c. Perhaps he's afraid of things being taken out of context...yeah...

Well, to be honest, I did see RDA "trying" to express that Jack had strong feelings for Sam a few times, mainly in season 4. I thought he looked pretty crushed at the end of Beneath the Surface when he realized Sam wasn't going to be leaning her head on his shoulder anymore and he became "sir" again. But otherwise I don't think he's played it all that convincingly. On the other hand AT seems to be much better at this sort of stuff so it kind of comes across that Sam has stronger feelings than Jack (IMO, anyway). But lots of fans loved that scene in Lost City and if you listen to the commentaries so did the TPTB.

Please....TPTB have more than proved to me that they're idiots. Or at least three of them. *coughcoughcoughRCCcoughcoughM&Mcoughcoughcough*

::reaches for her inhaler::

I could only laugh at RCC on Lost City's DVD commentary when he got squicked at Jack's goodbye to Teal'c. LOL. Hmm...was that a spoiler?

As for Jack playing the part of poor martyr's love lost, I've yet to see him pull off anything more than Dude-With-Hangover or Dude-With-Crippling-Constipation. Of course, I could be interpreting the scenes incorrectly. But seriously, someone needs to buy him some aspirin or Exlax.

[astronomicalchick]

We have a family? Well I don't think we're the inlaws, more like the "outlaws".

Yeah I was wondering that too! Do you have cookies and stuff? Or is it more hard edged in this family?

[ShadowMaat]

Yeah I was wondering that too! Do you have cookies and stuff? Or is it more hard edged in this family?

Well, I'M in this Family, if that tells you anything!

[Madeleine]

We have vodka. You wanna dunk a cookie in our vodka?

[Beta Candy]

I found some cookies under the couch. I think they're chocolate walnut.

[Mr Prophet]

How 'bout choco-mint vodka. Mint Aero, vodka, blender: Tastes like 50% proof toothpaste!

And, um, yeah. Sam/Jack ship: What's up with that?

[LoneStar1836]

I prefer swigging on the pink stuff while downing my cookies. It helps to keep me from tossing them up. Can never have too much Pepto-Bismol handy when Jack and Sam are in a room alone. I think I need some now just thinking about that. (insert puking smiley I saw on some other thread. I think it was yours, Shadow, but I'm too lazy to go look. I think y'all are getting too happy over there. What happened to all the good sulking. )

The guy was freezing! I had to wonder if he wouldn't have been all over Makepeace if that's who was available, LOL.

Now that’s a mental picture I can live with as compared to frozen Jack in LC and Sam making eyes at each other if that’s what one can call that. Maybe he was eying Daniel who was behind her.

Well, to be honest, I did see RDA "trying" to express that Jack had strong feelings for Sam a few times, mainly in season 4. I thought he looked pretty crushed at the end of Beneath the Surface when he realized Sam wasn't going to be leaning her head on his shoulder anymore and he became "sir" again. But otherwise I don't think he's played it all that convincingly.

That may be the only episode I can think of at the moment that the ship thing was actually believable for me, but of course it only took them having zero memory of reality for it to happen. RDA’s the reason I don’t think it exists. It may exist for the writers, but he doesn’t play it up very well, and it’s not because he doesn’t have great acting skills. Though, in my opinion they have faded since he reduced his schedule. He doesn’t seem as interested in the character and is taking the easy way out by just making him more crass and stupider. Maybe RDA is intentionally playing the ship vague so his character can avoid the flack thrown by anti-shippers.

On the other hand AT seems to be much better at this sort of stuff so it kind of comes across that Sam has stronger feelings than Jack (IMO, anyway).

She does do a much better job of pulling it off, but then it makes her look like the bad guy in the whole ship affair, imo, because it looks like she is the one “pursuing” the relationship. Ship has screwed her character over because I think it has weakened Sam while RDA sits over there in the corner having Jack untouched by the whole thing. Why does it seem like it always has to be the woman who goes to jello over a man?

[ravinia]

I had no idea there were such (violently) strong feelings about this until I read this thread! Points taken; I definitely have some new thoughts to ponder. but also keep in mind you can't blame our perceived decline of the series on this one thing only.

It has been seven years, and characters DO change over the course of seven years. You are not the same person you were seven years ago, and we've all had times in our lives when we were feeling weaker, more shippy, more introspective or whatever.

If the characters and relationships didn't grow and change the show would be flat and unrealistic. I think our real beef is with the writers and their inability to keep the character development and personal lives in the subtext and without crippling the characters. RDA's growing detachment isn't helping the writers either.

[Mr Prophet]

But I don't think that these characters are changing and growing. If anything, they're shrinking. A strong, capable woman has become a blubbering schoolgirl; two rounded characters have become in turns detached and introverted and...well, a total wallflower. By CJ's own claim, the only time Teal'c gets any character development is when he writes it himself.

The ship has replaced any kind of character growth. Instead of development, Sam makes gooey eyes at Jack or hums and haws over Pete. Anyone else would be lucky to get that much these days.

[astronomicalchick]

We have vodka. You wanna dunk a cookie in our vodka?

Hmmmmm.... yeah...

Got any ****?

[astronomicalchick]

I brought myself to watch D&C the other day (which ever day it was on...) I'm glad they didn't show Sam's retest. That way, I can take Jack's comments anyway I choose (which of cource is the anti-ship way).

One thing I enjoyed while watching it was the Freya kissed Jack (both times). If you really watch it, you can see that Jack is reciprocating the kisses. Do you really think he would reach up to her face or even let her get that second kiss in, if he really had feelings for Sam... Personally, I would think not (at least I have to believe that way to get any ship thoughts out of my head. )

Then the look on Sam's face when she shot and went to Martouf. You can tell she has feelings for him. Strong romantic feelings.

Just had to get my thoughts down (sorry if it seems a bit ramdomized.)

I've only watched D&C twice I think. It's okay, although I though it was a bit overcooked, but you COULD interpret it in either a shippy or non-shippy way, and that was the beauty of it.

Yeah I thought Jack wasn't struggling that much when Freya kissed him!

[ShadowMaat]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Change is good, but only when it's for the BETTER. As Mr. Prophet said, I don't see what has happened to the characters lately (and not just Sam and Jack) as character growth, but more like character degeneration. The team of five years ago was fun to watch. The random collection of loosely-assorted angst-ridden and tragic characters occasionally occupying the same space and exchanging words today aren't nearly as interesting to me.