Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[JessM]

Or with Teal'c or with Hammond or with Cam or with Janet use your imagination, if you are going to make Sam need a guy, have some fun with it. S/J is not a religious tract, it's not blasphemy to put her with someone else, there might be some untapped chemistry there. And I'm sure AT would have fun with it too!

FF

Agreed! It would be fun to see what could happen.

[grasshopper64]

I think I need to rant a bit here myself after reading this thread....

I agree with what's been said about the AU thing, much as I don't want to see shipping between main characters on screen, AUs are a chance to go outside the box if you like and I have no problem with them hinting or portraying different pairings in these, after all they're AU so it doesn't affect the show.

I get annoyed at the way AU have constantly been S/J together, I too would have liked to see geek Sam/Daniel together in Moebius, and when that Sam went with Jack it was like "here we go again".

Ripple Effect in S9 wasn't much better, as least they didn't actually say any of the AU Sams were with Jack but I think the whole thing with her going on her honeymoon/maternity leave and not saying with who was done deliberately.
Apparently they cut some scenes from that ep that would have hinted that one of the AUs Sam and Mitchell were together. Shame as I wouldn't have had a problem with that, it would have made it more interesting and got away from the whole "Sam can only be with Jack" thing.

[JessM]

Me too. I got tingly hoping Sam would get off with Daniel in Moebius 2 - and I'd never seen them that way before (I ship Sam/Janet more than any other pairing ) I'm sure a big part of it was the way Jerk!Jack just presumed to hit on her and her rejection of him felt so spot on. It would have been such a cool thing to see the geek get the girl.

But no, TPTB fell into their same tedious rut and shipped the girl with the jerk after all. Gagh! What a waste of an opportunity. So blinkin unoriginal.

Yeah, that's another thing, and I was glad to see that she didn't seem to be falling for it. She did seem quite uncomfortable when he told her that she's hot. One thing I thought was a little odd was when Geek!Sam and Jerk!Jack were walking back to the puddle jumper and Geek!Sam wondered if the "future me" has a boyfriend. Maybe it was just a throwaway comment, though...

I hated how they fell into that rut by making Geek!Sam say that she lied and was really shy and wanted to get to know Jerk!Jack better. Oh, please.

Bet you'd keep 'em busy together

Oh, I think that's entirely possible! lol

[jckfan55]

I wonder if AT and RDA are aware that not everyone thinks that the Sam 'n Sir relationship is the best thing since sliced bread? Most of their feedback will come from conventions (which RDA doesn't attend) and I would assume that they would have publicists/assistants who would, if they were doing their job properly, keep an eye on fannish trends.

AT has been fairly diplomatic in her comments, but I think I read an interview somewhere from S8 where she said "enough already" of the J/S unresolved stuff. Either get together or move on. But she plays what they write for her. She has been over-ruled in some cases. Ex) she objected to Sam accepting Pete's proposal on the job, but was told they couldn't do another camera set up.

And I think it's true, as has been said, many aspects of this and other things would have been helped by a woman being on the writing staff.

[JessM]

I'm not sure these writers know how to get out of a rut. I think they've dug one so deep they can't see out of it anymore, so they have no choice, but to follow it. For that matter, I doubt very much if they even have a desire to leave it. It must be very comfortable by now.

Couldn't agree more.

I miss the team shows that didn't even have an antagonist, or at most a really minor one, no great "arcs", just delightful story telling. ALL of that went away after Glassner left as far as I am concerned.

Agree here too. It did seem to get that way. I remember someone had said (can't remember who - but it was one of tptb I think) they tried bringing in Anise to be a sort of "love interest" for Jack. For some reason that didn't work out. I can't remember what else was said about it...

And the J/S ship was brought in to replace good story telling. It was a rotten trade, as far as I'm concerned, and I can only hope that we don't have to be subjected to Jack the Jerk and Sam the Adolescent this season.

Same here. Apparently RDA is only going to appear in two episodes. Even if we have a Jack the Jerk and Sam the Adolescent for two episodes, it's two episodes too much for me.

I had nothing against RDA or the character of O'Neill as he was in the first three seasons. After that, I lost respect for the character the writers were giving us and for RDA for not standing up as an executive producer and the "star" of the show and saying NO to the ship. As big a draw as he was for the show, he could have killed it dead by just refusing to do it. They wouldn't have had a choice if they wanted to keep him and they did want to... so... RDA is just as much to blame for the ship as the writers in my opinion.

I did as well. He seemed to be all about the stupid one-liners. I've often wondered why RDA never stood up and said No to the ship. A recent interview he gave seemed to insinuate that he was all for Sam and Jack just being friends and colleagues. I wonder if he's only begun to feel this way, and didn't mind the ship stuff earlier.

Since I'm now finished with that rant, I'll apologize now, in case I insulted anyone.

No apologies necessary.

[JessM]

I couldn't believe SAM behaving like that! She's not the best advertisement in the world for relationships but (joking about Black Widow Curse aside) she's not that emotionally stunted. And she was betrothed to another man at the time. What sort of picture of her were the writers trying to convey? That she's so obsessed with the man that she doesn't care about her fiance? But of course, S/J is the sacred ship, it is written in the stars, so they can ruin their lead female character in its name - Sam has been as much a victim of the ship as Martuf, Janet and Jacob.


I think that's true of most of us, the writers have made a rod for their own backs by being so unsubtle and ramming it (ladled with lashings and lashings of syrupy piano music!) down our throats.

I couldn't believe she acted that way, either. I might be able to see it if she was 16 or 18 years old, but certainly not 40-ish! I thought it was very odd how she sought Jack out even after she had a fiance already, that her obsession for him would go so far. I even saw this in Affinity, where she showed Jack her engagement ring and they had that little talk... there was the shippy music once again, as if to remind us that, yes, Sam is engaged, but her twue wuv is still Jack...

[JessM]

AT has been fairly diplomatic in her comments, but I think I read an interview somewhere from S8 where she said "enough already" of the J/S unresolved stuff. Either get together or move on. But she plays what they write for her. She has been over-ruled in some cases. Ex) she objected to Sam accepting Pete's proposal on the job, but was told they couldn't do another camera set up.

And I think it's true, as has been said, many aspects of this and other things would have been helped by a woman being on the writing staff.

I remember reading an interview like that, and I believe she also said at the same time that she'd like more friendship moments with Teal'c and Daniel. Which I would have liked to see, but I think it won't be very possible this season with Jack coming back and Daniel being paired with Vala... but I digress.

There was apparently a very recent interview in which she said she didn't want to be "the girl" pining for the lead guy. However, she's also said recently (I'm thinking of the Vancouver con from March and some of the little bits from the SciFi channel promos) that RDA coming back means there could be more chances for Sam n Sir, and that maybe they could "get together" since she's no longer in his chain of command. I like to think that she was joking, sort of playing around with the fans, but I don't know...

[Dani347]

I know two episodes of potential ship is too much for some people (me included) but Jack won't be around enough to prevent Sam from interacting with the rest of the cast for the whole season.

And, Moebius, and that terrible "I lied" part (which is where I started to dislike my former geek sweetie) reminds me way too much of fanfics that claim to be Daniel fics, but are really ship fics that happen to use Daniel to push the ship.

As far as shippers, I really don't expect anyone to not want ship just because I don't want it. Viewers can't go around adapting their wishes out of sympathy to anyone else. I'm selfish in my tv viewing. If I don't like something I'm not going to say it should happen because other people do. The people who make the show are the ones who (theoretically) consider the audience as a whole. I only have to worry about pleasing myself.

[Frostfox]

I know two episodes of potential ship is too much for some people (me included) but Jack won't be around enough to prevent Sam from interacting with the rest of the cast for the whole season.

Hurrah for that, already seen some excellent Sam/Daniel shots from Season 10. I adore the science twins and Sam/Teal'c just as much (if not more, their subtle, understated humour I adore).

As far as shippers, I really don't expect anyone to not want ship just because I don't want it. Viewers can't go around adapting their wishes out of sympathy to anyone else. I'm selfish in my tv viewing. If I don't like something I'm not going to say it should happen because other people do. The people who make the show are the ones who (theoretically) consider the audience as a whole. I only have to worry about pleasing myself.

I've said it before, when JessM was being bullied for being a Sam/Daniel fan, I never mind reiterating; why do some people want everyone to view the show the same way they do?

No sub set of fans is more important than any other.

We all like the same show, we just like different aspect of it and no one has the right to tell us we are wrong, and vice versa, of course.

FF "The young do not always do what they are told."

[JessM]

I know two episodes of potential ship is too much for some people (me included) but Jack won't be around enough to prevent Sam from interacting with the rest of the cast for the whole season.

That's a good point. And hopefully they won't try anything like subtle hints here and there that Jack and Sam have a "thang" going on ... sort of like the way people tried to take Sam's

Spoiler:

"Not exactly" line to Barrett in Ex Deus Machina

as a hint that she's seeing Jack.

And, Moebius, and that terrible "I lied" part (which is where I started to dislike my former geek sweetie) reminds me way too much of fanfics that claim to be Daniel fics, but are really ship fics that happen to use Daniel to push the ship.

I really cannot stand to see Daniel used in that way.

As far as shippers, I really don't expect anyone to not want ship just because I don't want it. Viewers can't go around adapting their wishes out of sympathy to anyone else. I'm selfish in my tv viewing. If I don't like something I'm not going to say it should happen because other people do. The people who make the show are the ones who (theoretically) consider the audience as a whole. I only have to worry about pleasing myself.

Very well said, and I feel the same way. If I don't like the way something is playing out in a show, I can either voice my disappointment (if I'm not ready to give up on the show) in a letter or something, even though it will probably amount to nothing in the end ... or I can just hit the "off" button on the remote and console myself by watching old episodes.

I'm just a ship(or not) and let ship(nor not) type of person. I don't mind so much how other people ship as long as they don't try to force their ship on me and convert me. I've met other shippers who were very gracious in saying that they didn't share my opinions, but they respected them nonetheless. But it sometimes seems there are more diehard-must-convert people than them ... although it probably seems that way because they are the most vocal I guess...

[JessM]

Hurrah for that, already seen some excellent Sam/Daniel shots from Season 10. I adore the science twins and Sam/Teal'c just as much (if not more, their subtle, understated humour I adore).

Ah yes, you mean from

Spoiler:

Morpheus

, I guess? Those are very nice. I love the science twins myself and quite like Sam/Teal'c interaction as well (I especially liked it in Heroes and in New Order).

I've said it before, when JessM was being bullied for being a Sam/Daniel fan, I never mind reiterating; why do some people want everyone to view the show the same way they do?

No sub set of fans is more important than any other.

We all like the same show, we just like different aspect of it and no one has the right to tell us we are wrong, and vice versa, of course.

FF "The young do not always do what they are told."

Amen! (gosh I'm giving out applause to everyone here lately, aren't I? LOL) The most important thing is that we're all fans of the show, and it shouldn't matter which subsets of the fandom we belong to.

[JessM]

I don't know if anyone has been following the Shore Leave Convention thread, but apparently AT is supposed to comment on episode 200. I am guessing it's the dreaded thing about the "wedding." She already made some comment to the effect of, if it were up to her, Jack and Sam would already be married. I can only hope she was kidding or teasing. Someone from that thread did say there seemed to be some anti-S/J people in the audience.

Shame that Carmen wasn't there when she said that. I'd have liked him to come back with, "Yeah, and if it were up to me and Selmak, you'd be married to Daniel by now." (little joke as Carmen has said in the past he finds Daniel better for Sam than Jack)

[Frostfox]

I don't know if anyone has been following the Shore Leave Convention thread, but apparently AT is supposed to comment on episode 200. I am guessing it's the dreaded thing about the "wedding." She already made some comment to the effect of, if it were up to her, Jack and Sam would already be married. I can only hope she was kidding or teasing. Someone from that thread did say there seemed to be some anti-S/J people in the audience.

I just went and read the thread. I think it's a bit sad that some people were harranging poor AT for a dress she wore 10 years ago! She'd only been on the series a couple of weeks when they were filming Emancipation, she was hardly likely to tell the wardrobe department, on her new job, that she wasn't going to wear the dress. Poor woman.

Shame that Carmen wasn't there when she said that. I'd have liked him to come back with, "Yeah, and if it were up to me and Selmak, you'd be married to Daniel by now." (little joke as Carmen has said in the past he finds Daniel better for Sam than Jack)

Well, 'Dad' always knows what's best for his little girl!

On another board (one run by the company who own the franchise) there was another thread about the Shore Leave and Amanda was saying, when asked about the dreaded ship, that she'd asked the writers to leave it alone as it was damaging her character. Smart lady.

FF

[JessM]

I just went and read the thread. I think it's a bit sad that some people were harranging poor AT for a dress she wore 10 years ago! She'd only been on the series a couple of weeks when they were filming Emancipation, she was hardly likely to tell the wardrobe department, on her new job, that she wasn't going to wear the dress. Poor woman.

I read that too. That was really ridiculous! She didn't have any say in her wardrobe back then! If they're going to go off on someone for it, they should go off on the wardrobe department. I think some people take these things just a little too seriously... She did not deserve that heckling.

Well, 'Dad' always knows what's best for his little girl!

Ah, true!

On another board (one run by the company who own the franchise) there was another thread about the Shore Leave and Amanda was saying, when asked about the dreaded ship, that she'd asked the writers to leave it alone as it was damaging her character. Smart lady.

FF

That's good to know. Smart indeed. I guess the comment about her having Sam and Jack married by now was said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek, then. Hopefully that will bode okay for this season.

[Frostfox]

I read that too. That was really ridiculous! She didn't have any say in her wardrobe back then! If they're going to go off on someone for it, they should go off on the wardrobe department. I think some people take these things just a little too seriously... She did not deserve that heckling.

No one ever deserves heckling.
If I wasn't interested in a guest, I wouldn't bother going to the talk (I've been going to cons since 1982, I don't go to many media cons) but I usually find most guests to be interesting, even if I've never heard of them or read their books. And there's many an author I've only started reading after I met them at a con (in the con bar, at most British cons!)

I really feel for AT when it comes to The Evil Ship of Doom (ESoD).
The writers treat Sam appallingly, tell AT her to her face that they don't know what to do with her character. At least the ESoD gives her character something to do, even if it deconstructs all which once made her character a fabulous example to young women.
But the actors opinions are irrelevant, they don't write the show, so they shouldn't get heckled over it.

FF