Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[discodiva]

Don't worry, there's not enough alcohol on the fr'kin planet to make Sam 'n Sir a good idea to me!

FF

*giggles*

[discodiva]

There's no crack bad enough to tip me into that twisted version of reality

*spits drink over keyboard*.....

[Easter Lily]

Oh, I like Solitudes!
But then they hadn't sullied the characters at that stage with The Evil Ship of Doom.
I loved that Sam cared so much for her teammate that she would pretend to be the woman he loves when he's dying. And that their team mates would try so hard to find them.

FF

Solitudes isn't one of my favourites... not because of my anti-S/J sentiments... in fact, I didn't see it as particularly shippy the first time I saw it.
It just felt like a filler episode but as you say, there were some nice moving moments.

[Frostfox]

Solitudes isn't one of my favourites... not because of my anti-S/J sentiments... in fact, I didn't see it as particularly shippy the first time I saw it.
It just felt like a filler episode but as you say, there were some nice moving moments.

And of course, we had Cute When Mutilated Daniel with that decorative sticky plaster on his forehead.

FF

[Dani347]

Unfortunately, I saw Solitudes after I had already been bashed over the head with ship, so it's hard for me to look at it at face value. The Jack/Sam scenes, anyway.

[Frostfox]

Unfortunately, I saw Solitudes after I had already been bashed over the head with ship, so it's hard for me to look at it at face value. The Jack/Sam scenes, anyway.

Ah, I was only a very very casual fan (would watch only if I was in on a Sunday afternoon and didn't have anythng better to do - I only fell in as a fan when I saw The Changeling and realised how much the show had grown) when I saw it the first time and took it purely at face value, I had no idea of the online politics of the show.
Casual viewers don't get riled up on the subjects that we fans do. I suspect that even the casuals who like the Evil Ship of Doom wouldn't care if it was resolved or not, they just don't follow the show that closely. We tend to get caught up in minutae but Joe Public just doesn't care.

FF

[scarimor]

Not a bad idea. It could be like the Dallas thing where Bobby is in the shower - only it's Jack in the shower and he expects Sam to be there with him ... but he's all alone (either that, or he expects her to be in the house).

There's something about Jack's "more than I'm supposed to" revelation in D&C that has such a middle-aged-guy hitting the male menopause ring to it for me. In contrast, Sam's way of dealing with it, and with the whole zatarc complication, seems so mature. She doesn't pretend to reciprocate, or get flustered by the fact that they have to bring his inappropriate feelings for someone under his command into the open. She just deals.

(and I half expected her to slap him over the head and remind him he's with Daniel )

And that is not a bad idea, either. I always find myself fast-forwarding over the shippy scenes in Threads... actually I fast-forward over half of Solitudes as well (I do find the whole Sam and Jack in Antarctica a bit on the boring side, frankly).

I never saw any of the dreaded shippiness in Solitudes. Jack was in love with Sarah, as far as I could see, and Sam certainly wasn't in love with him.

[JessM]

Oh, I like Solitudes!
But then they hadn't sullied the characters at that stage with The Evil Ship of Doom.
I loved that Sam cared so much for her teammate that she would pretend to be the woman he loves when he's dying. And that their team mates would try so hard to find them.

FF

I think that Solitudes showed that Jack probably still had some feelings for Sara. I know that when Sam said "your wife...", he replied with "At the time," but I think he still felt something for her with the way he spoke about her (as well as the way he spoke about her in Brief Candle to Kynthia). And I think that Sam knew he did and that was one of the reasons why she pretended to be Sara. She knew that his love for her and vice versa helped him in situations like this before.

Or something like this, anyway...

I do love the way that Daniel tried so hard to locate them, how he would not give up even after Hammond called off the search and it seemed hopeless.

[JessM]

Change that to Carter being in the shower as I see ship being one sided (all on her side in her deluded mind) and she awakens thinking that Jack will be in the shower with her or in the house. But he isn't. That would make my day. Then it could as if the last few years (namely Seasons 4-8, though I did like Season 6) haven't actually happened. And we can return to Stargate SG-1 not SoapOpera SamGate SG-1.

I have a friend who believes that everything after Moebius Part 2 is an AU, thus

Spoiler:

the part at the end where Jack told Sam she had packing to do, and the part where they're sitting on his dock fishing together

didn't happen, and thus all of season 9 and presumably season 10 is AU ... so perhaps we don't really have to worry about what we fear in episode 200 as actually happening in our reality.

[JessM]

And of course, we had Cute When Mutilated Daniel with that decorative sticky plaster on his forehead.

FF

So true! And the cute question/answer to Teal'c: "What happens when you dial your own phone number? ... Wrong person to ask." (turns to Hammond)... hee hee.

[JessM]

Unfortunately, I saw Solitudes after I had already been bashed over the head with ship, so it's hard for me to look at it at face value. The Jack/Sam scenes, anyway.

Ditto for me. I had already seen season 6 and before that, several of the season 4 eps. It wasn't until after season 6 finished airing that I caught Solitudes (along with the rest of season 1) in the SciFi Monday night repeats.

[JessM]

Ah, I was only a very very casual fan (would watch only if I was in on a Sunday afternoon and didn't have anythng better to do - I only fell in as a fan when I saw The Changeling and realised how much the show had grown) when I saw it the first time and took it purely at face value, I had no idea of the online politics of the show.
Casual viewers don't get riled up on the subjects that we fans do. I suspect that even the casuals who like the Evil Ship of Doom wouldn't care if it was resolved or not, they just don't follow the show that closely. We tend to get caught up in minutae but Joe Public just doesn't care.

FF

I agree. My mom was the one who got me into the show in the first place, and although she is a fan, she is much more of a casual viewer than I am. When I relayed my disgust to her about "that scene" in Moebius Part 2, she didn't see it as a very big deal. She told me "it's not really them." Though she does agree with me that she doesn't like when it becomes too soap opera-ish (and is thus not too thrilled with the shippiness).

[JessM]

There's something about Jack's "more than I'm supposed to" revelation in D&C that has such a middle-aged-guy hitting the male menopause ring to it for me. In contrast, Sam's way of dealing with it, and with the whole zatarc complication, seems so mature. She doesn't pretend to reciprocate, or get flustered by the fact that they have to bring his inappropriate feelings for someone under his command into the open. She just deals.

(and I half expected her to slap him over the head and remind him he's with Daniel )

LOL Now that you mention it, it does seem to have a male menopause ring to it. Even though she seemed upset when she heard he was going to be tested for a zatarc again, from the way she bolted from the room and all (which for some reason did seem a little out of place for me - like "where did that come from?"), I didn't really see her talking about it in the way that Jack did.

I never saw any of the dreaded shippiness in Solitudes. Jack was in love with Sarah, as far as I could see, and Sam certainly wasn't in love with him.

That's a good point - I didn't, either. I just found those scenes a bit boring. I know that some people point to Sam's "If we don't make it I won't have any regrets ... you?" quote as shippy, but I don't see that. And I read somewhere (either in an article or a book) that Solitudes marked the first hint of UST between Sam and Jack... which I don't see either. I guess that's just someone's opinion, but I don't like it when they try to state opinion as fact.

[Frostfox]

There's something about Jack's "more than I'm supposed to" revelation in D&C that has such a middle-aged-guy hitting the male menopause ring to it for me. In contrast, Sam's way of dealing with it, and with the whole zatarc complication, seems so mature. She doesn't pretend to reciprocate, or get flustered by the fact that they have to bring his inappropriate feelings for someone under his command into the open. She just deals.

(and I half expected her to slap him over the head and remind him he's with Daniel )

Oh, that's just too funny for words! Male menopause! But he's the right age, you might have hit on an angle I hadn't thought of before (not that I needed any more reason to dislike The Evil Ship of Doom!).
And yes, Sam's reactions were much more mature and I loved that Sam. It goes back to my old gripe about a woman not necessarily needing a man to be complete and happy and fulfilled. We had that with Sam and the fabulous way AT plays her, I'll never forgive TPTB for taking her away from us and leaving us with wimpy/twinset and pearls/pining for the boss Sam.

FF

[Dani347]

When I relayed my disgust to her about "that scene" in Moebius Part 2, she didn't see it as a very big deal. She told me "it's not really them."

But, even if it wasn't them, it was Geek!Sam. Geek!Sam deserved so much better than Jerk!Jack. She was such a sweetheart up until that moment (maybe before, I don't know. In my universe, Moebius is only one episode). That episode doesn't make me cringe because I associated with the Jack and Sam of this universe. It makes me cringe because of the ones in that one. *cuddles her miniature Geek!Sam dolly and tells her that her first reaction to seeing Jack on tape was correct, and that she can do so much better. Pulls Geek!Daniel doll from behind her back and makes them kiss* Of course, she's not good enough for Daniel in Moebius 2, but I could ship for the geek couple in the first episode.